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#1
my little girl took a tool to my omen 6 .The result was hard to swallow she shrumed the bridge and chipped some paint ..long story short I wanted to see just what lied under that paint,, quality wise,, and well here's the pics .. judge for yourself .i see four types of wood for the body and a nice knot...
.u can click on the thumbnails to enlarge..


.





well i went ahead and stained it a dark walnut color and found holes in this guitar as well ..
two holes that were drilled for no reason on the back and the rest are what appears to be termite cavities or something also a Nice trail line on the side that i sanded out ...










I also attempted to contact schecter for an explanation ..we'll see if they can explain for themselves what happened and I will let know guys know that they say


well I just got off the phone with a man named William from Schecter .
to generally put what he said was that they haven't heard any complaints about this and that this is pretty much standard for all solid painted schecters .
it sucks that ,that is they're standards and they lost one customer..
if you feel that this is unjust . Send them a email here @ http://www.schecterguitars.com/contact.asp

or better give them a call @ 1-800-660-6621 ext.313 or ask for William in the tech dept.
Last edited by xx2gunsxx at Dec 8, 2009,
#3
That is just ***king pathetic! You ought to send them to Schecter and ask WTF?!

Thanks for letting us know, man!
#6
Looks like it came out of the Devries factory and just had it's route cleaned up with a proper router instead of just teeth.
#8
It's no surprise and I see nothing wrong, usually when a guitar is painted opaque the grain and knots do not show so they can use wood that is not perfect. I have stripped a lot of guitars in my day and you would be very surprised what lies under the paint on most of them. A guitar company will save A, AA and AAA woods for guitars that get transparent finishes or higher end models and most will only use AA or AAA caps over wood like that some companies don't even do that they photo print the grain and then clear coat over it.


John
Last edited by johnro6659 at Dec 5, 2009,
#9
Its not really a shocking thing considering a quick look at MF using the price of the omen 6 also brings up the epi LP100. Along with many other economy guitars where corners are expected to be cut. The big knot is a bit much but the filler/sealer covers it. They werent expecting you to sand it down and find it.
#10
Quote by johnro6659
It's no surprise and I see nothing wrong, usually when a guitar is painted opaque the grain and knots do not show so they can use wood that is not perfect. I have stripped a lot of guitars in my day and you would be very surprised what lies under the paint on most of them. A guitar company will save A, AA and AAA woods for guitars that get transparent finishes or higher end models and most will only use AA or AAA caps over wood like that some companies don't even do that the photo print the grain and then clear coat over it.


John

well I'm quite surprised ... using that many pieces of wood to make the body you would think that they would prevent from the very reason why they use that many pieces .. to avoid knots and other defects ..
and I was surprised to see four pieces of wood to make that body ... most importantly though is the fact that they saw it didn't even fill it ,just painted it and sent it on its way ...
I was a big fan of schecter but to stumble across this pisses me off ...
#11
Quote by Tackleberry
Its not really a shocking thing considering a quick look at MF using the price of the omen 6 also brings up the epi LP100. Along with many other economy guitars where corners are expected to be cut. The big knot is a bit much but the filler/sealer covers it. They werent expecting you to sand it down and find it.



I'm sneaky like that......

but for the price schecter has you believing its a well made guitar ..but I can find structurally better fitted guitar at rondo for half that price ..I've been fooled
and before I stripped the paint on this one I bought a omen 7 extreme .I can only imagine what lies there
#12
You haven't been "fooled" about anything, and really there was nothing wrong with or defective about your guitar. In a scenario like this the knot has no more real meaning than 2x4 in your wall with splintered edges or bark on a corner. In one case it's supposed to be covered with drywall, in the other it should be under the finish, and neither case has any tangible effect on the performance or stability of the end product.

If you want "perfect" in every ethereal aspect which has no practical impact, you should be thinking about custom made guitars from the thousands of dollars and up, and not something from a factory pumping out thousands of guitars per day.

In fair context, there was nothing wrong with the wood on that guitar.
Collins Luthiery
#13
Quote by David Collins
You haven't been "fooled" about anything, and really there was nothing wrong with or defective about your guitar. In a scenario like this the knot has no more real meaning than 2x4 in your wall with splintered edges or bark on a corner. In one case it's supposed to be covered with drywall, in the other it should be under the finish, and neither case has any tangible effect on the performance or stability of the end product.

If you want "perfect" in every ethereal aspect which has no practical impact, you should be thinking about custom made guitars from the thousands of dollars and up, and not something from a factory pumping out thousands of guitars per day.

In fair context, there was nothing wrong with the wood on that guitar.


well to each his own .. my standards are a bit higher then that .. I work damn hard for the money I earn and if I spend 350 bucks then I want a 350 dollar guitar .. I wouldn't be so disappointed if i spent 100 bucks for this . i would expect something of this quality but like I said earlier for this price there are quite few better fitted guitars out there .. I thought this schecter was one of them . but like I said ....i've been fooled....
#14
$350 is nothing (no offence), most $350 guitars with solid finishs will be like this, multi piece woods with knots, its nothings new.

Here is a sanded down Ibanez RG7321 cost = $400

it has at least 4 knots and 5 different pieces of basswood.

http://www.hot.ee/tonkpils666//TR7-8.jpg

http://www.hot.ee/tonkpils666//TR7-7.jpg




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#15
That Ibanez looks a hell of a lot better than that Schecter. The fact that a lot of manufacturers are using crappy wood doesn't make it OK. Any guitar with a knot like the one on that Schecter should be sold as a Factory Second and priced way down from the norm.
#16
Quote by FatalGear41
That Ibanez looks a hell of a lot better than that Schecter. The fact that a lot of manufacturers are using crappy wood doesn't make it OK. Any guitar with a knot like the one on that Schecter should be sold as a Factory Second and priced way down from the norm.



.................AGREED.................
#17
Quote by Absent Mind
$350 is nothing (no offence), most $350 guitars with solid finishs will be like this, multi piece woods with knots, its nothings new.

Here is a sanded down Ibanez RG7321 cost = $400

it has at least 4 knots and 5 different pieces of basswood.

http://www.hot.ee/tonkpils666//TR7-8.jpg

http://www.hot.ee/tonkpils666//TR7-7.jpg



NONE TAKEN .....
but this can be argued . if you look at some of the guitars @ rondomusic.com
you can find many guitars there at a fraction of what this omen cost that are of better wood quality then this ....
and if your statement about most makers being this way then they need to get they're head on straight and stop cheating the customers that are keeping they're business going ..
#18
Think of it this way: If Schecter used top quality wood on their lowest end models, would they make any profit?


No. They have to use the lower quality stuff, because it's way cheaper. Also, the 4 piece body is only because the trees aren't wide enough for one piece bodies.
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#19
i've taken this from another forum that's discussing this
that's no good. It doesn't matter how "awesome" a guitar sounds, there's no excuse for using crappy wood like that.

That's like me saying I'll swap your wife's diamond ring for a cheap Cubic zirconia ring. Both look pretty, so what's the big deal right?

I sanded an SX guitar and was disappointed that the wood joints weren't parallel with the neck. At least there weren't any disgusting knots like that

FROM THIS


TO THIS



I feel your pain and would also be disappointed, and rightly so I think. For $350 you'd expect more

.......AGREED .......[/B
#20
so what's the problem?

the omen 6 which can be found in some areas for $300, is a perfectly good starter guitar.

like said they use woods graded to be PAINTED. which is why it was.

and if done correctly, the wood piece numbers have little to do with the guitar's quality or playability.

just because a guitar is listed as having a certain type of wood, doesnt account for number of pieces or the cosmetic attributes of those pieces.

there are obviously a few guys in this thread who have little idea about the guitars they are buying.
Jenneh

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#21
Quote by oneblackened
Think of it this way: If Schecter used top quality wood on their lowest end models, would they make any profit?


No. They have to use the lower quality stuff, because it's way cheaper. Also, the 4 piece body is only because the trees aren't wide enough for one piece bodies.

then those aren't trees those are branches from trees...
then it should be aware to the customer that's buying . like spec's
basswood body made of four pieces glued together with sizable knots etc..


And another point .. if other production guitar makers can make clear finish guitars for a third of schecters lower end guitars then I dont see why they cant use quality wood under the paint and not profit well with it.....
Last edited by xx2gunsxx at Dec 5, 2009,
#22
Quote by jj1565
so what's the problem?

the omen 6 which can be found in some areas for $300, is a perfectly good starter guitar.

like said they use woods graded to be PAINTED. which is why it was.

and if done correctly, the wood piece numbers have little to do with the guitar's quality or playability.

just because a guitar is listed as having a certain type of wood, doesnt account for number of pieces or the cosmetic attributes of those pieces.

there are obviously a few guys in this thread who have little idea about the guitars they are buying.

it's the knot that is really disturbing... brother...
and what else is disturbing is the longer this thread goes on the more I find how incredibly low peoples standards are getting
#23
Quote by xx2gunsxx
NONE TAKEN .....
but this can be argued . if you look at some of the guitars @ rondomusic.com
you can find many guitars there at a fraction of what this omen cost that are of better wood quality then this ....
and if your statement about most makers being this way then they need to get they're head on straight and stop cheating the customers that are keeping they're business going ..

Rondo is cheaper because there is no middle man, you buy it direct from Rondo, not via a shop who has to take a cut, plus they do very little if any marketing to save money.

You have to just accept that this is the norm, the manufactures arent cheating any one, they say 'this is made of wood' which it is, they dont say how much wood, think your self lucky its not made of mahogany or basswood plywood, because that still counts as a mahogany wood guitar.


Quote by oneblackened
Also, the 4 piece body is only because the trees aren't wide enough for one piece bodies.
Not quite, trees are wide enough, its just easier to get hold of the thin stuff.


Quote by FatalGear41
Any guitar with a knot like the one on that Schecter should be sold as a Factory Second and priced way down from the norm.
There are no defects in the guitar, it is not damaged in any way, it just isnt as high quality as you might think, as long as you cant tell the knot is there, there is no reason for them to call it a 2nd.


Obviously its really anoying they are getting away with this kinda stuff, but it's just modern economics, theres nothing we can do about it.




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Absent Mind is, as usual, completely correct.

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#24
Quote by xx2gunsxx
well to each his own .. my standards are a bit higher then that .. I work damn hard for the money I earn and if I spend 350 bucks then I want a 350 dollar guitar .. I wouldn't be so disappointed if i spent 100 bucks for this . i would expect something of this quality but like I said earlier for this price there are quite few better fitted guitars out there .. I thought this schecter was one of them . but like I said ....i've been fooled....


You did get perfectly appropriate quality for a $350 guitar. I'm not talking about what absolute standards anyone has, I'm talking about realistic expectations of standards for different ranges of instruments. At $350 you're well within the range of cheap import guitars, there's nothing inappropriate about quality like that at that price point. For a made in China (or Korea, Indonesia, etc) factory pumping out thousands of instruments per day, do you expect any different? If it has no effect on the end quality of an instrument, how is it a flaw?

What you see is perfectly in line with the price you paid for it. If you hadn't sanded it back, then there never would have been anything wrong with it. There's only something wrong now because you know there's an aesthetic flaw in the wood (which is supposed to be covered by paint).

There are lots of tonal and functional aspects useful to guide your choices in buying a guitar. At $350 though, you haven't quite bought your way to pick from the "absolute perfection" stock. Little imperfections like this, which cannot be seen and will never have any impact on function or tone, are to be fairly and realistically expected to be found on occasion. That's the market. If you don't like things like this in your guitars, put at least a 1 (or a 2 or 3) in front of that $350 you spent, and your expectations may be a bit more in line with the real market.
Collins Luthiery
#25
Quote by David Collins
You did get perfectly appropriate quality for a $350 guitar. I'm not talking about what absolute standards anyone has, I'm talking about realistic expectations of standards for different ranges of instruments. At $350 you're well within the range of cheap import guitars, there's nothing inappropriate about quality like that at that price point. For a made in China (or Korea, Indonesia, etc) factory pumping out thousands of instruments per day, do you expect any different? If it has no effect on the end quality of an instrument, how is it a flaw?

What you see is perfectly in line with the price you paid for it. If you hadn't sanded it back, then there never would have been anything wrong with it. There's only something wrong now because you know there's an aesthetic flaw in the wood (which is supposed to be covered by paint).

There are lots of tonal and functional aspects useful to guide your choices in buying a guitar. At $350 though, you haven't quite bought your way to pick from the "absolute perfection" stock. Little imperfections like this, which cannot be seen and will never have any impact on function or tone, are to be fairly and realistically expected to be found on occasion. That's the market. If you don't like things like this in your guitars, put at least a 1 (or a 2 or 3) in front of that $350 you spent, and your expectations may be a bit more in line with the real market.



I have to disagree ..I don't believe my standards are to high for the dollar sign ...
and I'm glad i did sand the paint . so not only me but others who believe there's quality in mind can be set straight ..
and I wasn't looking for absolute perfection but i didn't expect find that i bought something worth a dime for a dollar ....
#26
[quote="Obviously its really anoying they are getting away with this kinda stuff, but it's just modern economics, theres nothing we can do about it.[/QUOTE"]


......AGREED.....
#27
Oh dear god, TS, if you want a better guitar, go and buy one.

And your expectations are WAY too high for a $350 guitar. You're expecting US or Japan-made quality (which usually costs in the high hundreds and up, usually in the and up area) in an Indonesian starter guitar. You won't get it. It's the way things are.
One piece A-grade body blanks are not cheap. You will NOT find them on starter guitars. My first guitar (a Squier strat) was 5 pieces of shit grade Agathis - it still sounds fine.

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP USING SO MANY ELLIPSES.
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Last edited by oneblackened at Dec 5, 2009,
#28
You usually get what you pay for; however, if you're patient and have the appropriate hunting skills, you can buy a $350-400 guitfiddle that would normally cost $700 - 1000 and with the better quality timber, PUs, electronics, and hardware.

Consider this a lesson learned: Inexpensive = most of the time lower quality (without said patience and skills).

#29
Quote by oneblackened
Oh dear god, TS, if you want a better guitar, go and buy one.

And your expectations are WAY too high for a $350 guitar. You're expecting US or Japan-made quality (which usually costs in the high hundreds and up, usually in the and up area) in an Indonesian starter guitar. You won't get it. It's the way things are.
One piece A-grade body blanks are not cheap. You will NOT find them on starter guitars. My first guitar (a Squier strat) was 5 pieces of shit grade Agathis - it still sounds fine.

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP USING SO MANY ELLIPSES.


+1, the knot in the wood doesnt affect the guitar in anyway what so ever. If it doesnt affect the playability, sound, or look then whats the problem. This is ridiculous, no need to get worked up over something so unimportant. The guitar wasn't even a expensive, high quality model.
#31
Quote by xx2gunsxx

just enlighten everyone ...



ok, well you're obviously young minded. so i'll post and be done.

as you mature mentally, you'll understand that, cosmetics have nothing to do with playability,

and that you're not Just paying for the body's looks when unpainted, but all the parts of the guitar.

i've got a > $200 guitar that looks great natural. That's because it was chosen for natural stain at the factory.

if given the choice i'd still take the omen. i've played a lot of starters and the omen
consistently plays better.


if a starter guitar is to be painted they will use a lower grade wood.

not sure why that's so hard to grasp.

next time, buy a natural stain finish.
Jenneh

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#32
Everyone else is more than capable of accepting that we're not dealing with the Alembic custom shop here, and that quality will not be massively high for the price

Deal with it
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#33
Quote by jj1565
ok, well you're obviously young minded. so i'll post and be done.

as you mature mentally, you'll understand that, cosmetics have nothing to do with playability,

and that you're not Just paying for the body's looks when unpainted, but all the parts of the guitar.

i've got a > $200 guitar that looks great natural. That's because it was chosen for natural stain at the factory.

if given the choice i'd still take the omen. i've played a lot of starters and the omen
consistently plays better.


if a starter guitar is to be painted they will use a lower grade wood.

not sure why that's so hard to grasp.

next time, buy a natural stain finish.



No need for insults . It's obvious that you are not getting the picture here . your opinion is duly noted ..
#34
If your expectations were higher, take this for what it is - a correction to your expectations of market realities. It's the way that it is.

Wood gets set through the mill, joined, routed and shaped in to bodies. The better pieces are going to be pulled aside for higher models and natural finishes. Bodies with cosmetic defects like this will be pulled aside for lower models and solid color finishes. They're not going to take 10% or 20% (or more) of their bodies and run them through the chipper for fear that someone is going to strip them down and be disappointed. Fender worked the same way back in the 50's-70's, and some of those "defective" guitars are now legendary and worth tens of thousands of dollars.

Let's talk furniture. You have your crappy MDF dressers with a thin veneer, which barely work new and fall apart in a matter of years. This is your $100 guitar.

Then you have your cheap solid wood dressers, which work fine and look okay from the face and have a decent hardwood front panel, but the side and back panels are cheaper pine. This is your $350 guitar.

Now what you're complaining about is not even a knot on the side or back panel of this dresser. It's a knot on the inside of the top, which is only visible when you pull out the drawers and stick your head inside. It doesn't affect it's stability, and has no bearing on how your clothes fit inside.

It's like tearing the upholstery and padding off of your couch, then being astonished at all the knots in the wooden frame. Even when it's reupholstered, it will somehow never seem quite as comfortable now that you know there are "defects" just under the fabric.

But now it has a "defect", and it bothers you. Your answer is simply to not buy Art Van, and go to a fine furniture maker to meet your needs, which you will of course pay for appropriately.

I'm not trying to be insulting in anything I say, and can to some degree understand where you're coming from. Just trying to offer a different perspective, and share what I feel to be realistic market expectations.
Collins Luthiery
Last edited by David Collins at Dec 5, 2009,
#35
It's just a knot underneath opaque paint, which means you can't see through it. It doesn't change the quality of the guitar, or the looks, or the sounds of it.

I bet you could pick a few SXs finished in solid colours, and find some with knots.
Cam Sampbell's my hero
#36
I bet if I sanded the finish off my guitar, I'd find a white-ish yellow color, with an interesting grain pattern and probably a few knots.

Would I care? No. Why? Because it never distracted me from playing it before.
#37
Quote by David Collins
If your expectations were higher, take this for what it is - a correction to your expectations of market realities. It's the way that it is.

Wood gets set through the mill, joined, routed and shaped in to bodies. The better pieces are going to be pulled aside for higher models and natural finishes. Bodies with cosmetic defects like this will be pulled aside for lower models and solid color finishes. They're not going to take 10% or 20% (or more) of their bodies and run them through the chipper for fear that someone is going to strip them down and be disappointed. Fender worked the same way back in the 50's-70's, and some of those "defective" guitars are now legendary and worth tens of thousands of dollars.

Let's talk furniture. You have your crappy MDF dressers with a thin veneer, which barely work new and fall apart in a matter of years. This is your $100 guitar.

Then you have your cheap solid wood dressers, which work fine and look okay from the face and have a decent hardwood front panel, but the side and back panels are cheaper pine. This is your $350 guitar.

Now what you're complaining about is not even a knot on the side or back panel of this dresser. It's a knot on the inside of the top, which is only visible when you pull out the drawers and stick your head inside. It doesn't affect it's stability, and has no bearing on how your clothes fit inside.

It's like tearing the upholstery and padding off of your couch, then being astonished at all the knots in the wooden frame. Even when it's reupholstered, it will somehow never seem quite as comfortable now that you know there are "defects" just under the fabric.

But now it has a "defect", and it bothers you. Your answer is simply to not buy Art Van, and go to a fine furniture maker to meet your needs, which you will of course pay for appropriately.

I'm not trying to be insulting in anything I say, and can to some degree understand where you're coming from. Just trying to offer a different perspective, and share what I feel to be realistic market expectations.



thank you for informing me .. Very well put .
it is a sad realization that I honestly don't want to accept but if that's the way guitar makers play it then I'll go along with it but I'm not liking it .wish people would put a little more pride in what they do these days . its sad that people want to get rich when they put a little effort into it huh.
thanks
#38
In the case of foreign made guitars its not a matter of pride. Its just economics. The more they throw away the more the per unit cost goes up. They get beat up alot on the per unit cost at factories there. Places like walmart give them such a razor thin profit margin, that just a few pieces can make the difference between red or black on the balance sheet. Im sure the assembly line has a set per unit cost they have to beat or else.
#39
You guys realize even Fender and Gibson as well as most big guitar companies use a lot of fillers, multi pieces of wood for bodies that you just do not see under the paint or exotic wood caps and laminates they put on the tops and bottoms of guitars. Exotic wood is getting rarer by the day large pieces of wood to make one piece bodies are scarce guitar companies have been using two three and up to five pieces of wood to make bodies for a long time. It's funny when you get a guitar with a neck thru that is made from up to 5 pieces of wood and then two body halves attach you rave about it but if it's hidden under paint you say how bad it is when it's no different.

Look how everyone claims how cheap a plywood guitar is but when Gibson makes a birch plywood SG everyone loves it. Actually the guitar is amazing, the best sustain I have ever found on an SG.


John
#40
^I remember the Zoot Suit SG got a lot of shit here, your point is null.
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
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