#1
Also, I have a few questions. Can a good mic totally capture a loud (100 watts) cranked tube amp? And if so, what recordings have you heard that use a FULLY cranked amp?

EDIT: Oh ya, and did you use an attenuator?
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Last edited by bingeandletgo at Dec 5, 2009,
#2
i cranke my 5 watt all the time but never for recording
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#3
Quote by bingeandletgo
Also, I have a few questions. Can a good mic totally capture a loud (100 watts) cranked tube amp? And if so, what recordings have you heard that use a FULLY cranked amp?

EDIT: Oh ya, and did you use an attenuator?

You would have to shell out a lot of money to get a mic that can withstand that amount of volume and would do it well. And I mean a lot.
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#4
I thought an SM57 (dyanmic mics) were made to capture cranked amps such as a tube amp without clipping?
#5
i crank my 120 Watt 6262, ive got a THD hotplate though ,sounds ace

EDIT:and yeh an SM57 should capture a good majority of your awesome tone, if you dont have such an awesome tone, ill will capture that... and facepalm.
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#6
Quote by DIMEBAGLIVEDON
I thought an SM57 (dyanmic mics) were made to capture cranked amps such as a tube amp without clipping?

I mean they can. But SM-57s pale into comparison as ribbon mics.
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#7
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
You would have to shell out a lot of money to get a mic that can withstand that amount of volume and would do it well. And I mean a lot.


But there IS, right? How much money are we talking?
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#8
There's very little need. In my experience a "cranked" tone from a tube amp can be found with the volume around roughly 4, so to have the volume at 10 is nothing more than potentially damaging to the speakers, your hearing and any nearby unsound buildings
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#9
Quote by Dopey_Trout
There's very little need. In my experience a "cranked" tone from a tube amp can be found with the volume around roughly 4, so to have the volume at 10 is nothing more than potentially damaging to the speakers, your hearing and any nearby unsound buildings

I believe you get full saturation around 7ish. But it depends on all sorts of factors. The amp itself, the tubes being used and how old they are, your cables, pedals, guitar and pickups, and how much speaker clipping is can also impact your tone. (Good speakers sound good when they clip slightly. That's why lots of people will by speakers the only measure up to a total of, say, just for arguments sake, 90 watts, and if the amp is being driven at 100 watts, the speakers have a slight clip to them. (Most speakers can withstand roughly double the wattage it says)
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#10
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
I believe you get full saturation around 7ish. But it depends on all sorts of factors. The amp itself, the tubes being used and how old they are, your cables, pedals, guitar and pickups, and how much speaker clipping is can also impact your tone. (Good speakers sound good when they clip slightly. That's why lots of people will by speakers the only measure up to a total of, say, just for arguments sake, 90 watts, and if the amp is being driven at 100 watts, the speakers have a slight clip to them. (Most speakers can withstand roughly double the wattage it says)


Fair enough, probably should have explained myself better and said that I used a Mesa to record with my old band and found the tone to be absolutely excellent with the volume at 4. That being said I never drove it further so maybe the tone did improve. Just IMO having a perfectly good tone at a level that is easy (and cheaper) to capture is preferable to having a godly tone which you can't (at least without great difficulty). But that's just avoiding the issue
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#11
Quote by Dopey_Trout
Fair enough, probably should have explained myself better and said that I used a Mesa to record with my old band and found the tone to be absolutely excellent with the volume at 4. That being said I never drove it further so maybe the tone did improve. Just IMO having a perfectly good tone at a level that is easy (and cheaper) to capture is preferable to having a godly tone which you can't (at least without great difficulty). But that's just avoiding the issue

Generally, if you're getting your amp above, say 3, your going to lose most mud issues. It's just the higher it goes, the clearer and more pronounced your amp gets, until you get up to the tip top and that's when you're actually getting some clipping.

But yeah. 4's going to sound good on most amp. That's what your amp sounds like. If you put your amp on 1.5, it's going to sound awful compared to 4, but when you put it on 7, the difference isn't as much.

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#12
I always crank mine...But only on the 7watt setting. Still incredibly loud.
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#13
Quote by LezPaulEpiphone
I always crank mine...But only on the 7watt setting. Still incredibly loud.

Hell yeah it is. Sounds like the best thing ever though, right? Plus that and the smell and the slightly empty sound in your ears after you turn it off?

Amirite?
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#14
Also, the only recordings I can think of where you are likely to hear a truly cranked amp are My Bloody Valentine's "Loveless" (pretty sure he absolutely drove his amps to oblivion) and, judging from the sound anyway, something like Electric Wizard's "Dopethrone". So shoegaze and stoner doom are good genres to explore
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#16
Quote by Dopey_Trout
Also, the only recordings I can think of where you are likely to hear a truly cranked amp are My Bloody Valentine's "Loveless" (pretty sure he absolutely drove his amps to oblivion) and, judging from the sound anyway, something like Electric Wizard's "Dopethrone". So shoegaze and stoner doom are good genres to explore


Shoegaze isn't really cranked amp territory, the guitars are usually either a bit more mellow or driven with fuzz or something like a Boss HM-2. I don't think Lush really cranked their amps by the sound of it. Lots of "dirty cleans" in there. It's pointless cranking guitars when you have them lower in the miix anyway. Shoegaze goes for a wall of sound effect, but not one as overpowering as Siamese Dream or something.
#17
High gain amps get their distortion from the preamp side of things and the power tubes stay clean which is why you find a lot of them with 90-150 or more watts, so you can get the volume without breaking up the power tubes. Cranking an amp to cause power tube distortion is different. I rather enjoy cranking single ended class A amps but it isn't really gonna produce extremely high gain. You can get a lot of gain out of some amps this way but its usually has a lot of sag and a looser sound, qualities not really ideal for the tight sounds used in a lot of metal.
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#18
I have a 1 watt amp that i crank on occasions. It will still get me arrested. But the louder it gets, the more awesome it gets...It just needs to get to that "meltdown" level.
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#19
Quote by GURREN LAGANN
Shoegaze isn't really cranked amp territory, the guitars are usually either a bit more mellow or driven with fuzz or something like a Boss HM-2. I don't think Lush really cranked their amps by the sound of it. Lots of "dirty cleans" in there. It's pointless cranking guitars when you have them lower in the miix anyway. Shoegaze goes for a wall of sound effect, but not one as overpowering as Siamese Dream or something.




Kevin Shields begs to differ.
#20
Quote by Dopey_Trout
Also, the only recordings I can think of where you are likely to hear a truly cranked amp are My Bloody Valentine's "Loveless" (pretty sure he absolutely drove his amps to oblivion) and, judging from the sound anyway, something like Electric Wizard's "Dopethrone". So shoegaze and stoner doom are good genres to explore


If you want to hear a studio recorded album of a tube amp cranked to the absolute maximum, listen to Blue Cheer's Vincebus Eruptum. Blue Cheer was one of the loudest bands in rock history, and even today, few have taken the maxim of "Turn it up to ten" so literally. While I can't speak to their veracity, there have been stories going around since the album was made that the guitars and bass were recorded at such insane volumes that they actually damaged some of the studio's recording gear.

It can be done, it has been done, and you can do it, too. But it is hell on your amp's tubes.
#21
I haven't been able to crank either of mine, since it's incredibly loud even at 15 watts. Here's a video of a Metro 100w '68 specs dimed. Sounds pretty good for being earshattering loud. Just a little muffled, but it still sounds amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_ae1P9w4Hw&feature=related

Here's another one, the 100w '68 spec dimed, but ran through a TDH hotplate at -4db. Mic picks it up really well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tESqDOMScEw
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Last edited by Shiromar at Dec 5, 2009,
#22
Am I the only one who doesn't necessarily like the sound of a 100W amp cranked? Yeah it's a big wall of power RAWRING at you but it can be disorientating and you start to lose a lot of clarity if you have ears like mine.

I mean even my 4W AC4TV cranked is a bit much... I can take drummer levels for amps just about, that's grand. But anything more than that is a bit much.
#23
Quote by ze monsta


Kevin Shields begs to differ.


I didn't say MBV weren't, they're not quite Shoegaze anyway. Most Shoegaze has an "army of guitars" sound going on but not necessarily cranked. A lot of them have that "dirty clean" sound, or are driven with fuzz(but not the balls to the wall sound of Siamese Dream for example, which WAS recorded with fully cranked amps).
#24
Quote by bingeandletgo
Also, I have a few questions. Can a good mic totally capture a loud (100 watts) cranked tube amp? And if so, what recordings have you heard that use a FULLY cranked amp?

EDIT: Oh ya, and did you use an attenuator?



i crank my AC30h2l regularly. nothing better. and no i don't use an attenuator, but the room i keep all my equipment in is soundproofed

and also i know that Heartbreaker is the first recorded instance of Page using his marshall stack/les paul combo. So he would've been using a fully cranked stack on that.
Last edited by Lt. Shinysides at Dec 5, 2009,
#25
Quote by GURREN LAGANN
I didn't say MBV weren't, they're not quite Shoegaze anyway. Most Shoegaze has an "army of guitars" sound going on but not necessarily cranked. A lot of them have that "dirty clean" sound, or are driven with fuzz(but not the balls to the wall sound of Siamese Dream for example, which WAS recorded with fully cranked amps).


It's a bit of a toothless argument to say a band that "kind of" aren't a genre did something that isn't common to the genre, then citing precedent to this with an album that isn't remotely part of that genre by a band that isn't remotely part of that genre either
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#26
Quote by Dopey_Trout
It's a bit of a toothless argument to say a band that "kind of" aren't a genre did something that isn't common to the genre, then citing precedent to this with an album that isn't remotely part of that genre by a band that isn't remotely part of that genre either


wat

If you're talking about the Pumpkins that's not fully true, they did take a lot of their influence from early Shoegaze. The band Catherine they got the Big Muff based sound from were pretty much shoegaze. MBV are kind of the opposite, they influenced Shoegaze but their style is a bit different, a lot more slow pitch shifting and overall harsher and louder.

And I think I was using that as an example of something that "is" cranked and "not" shoegaze, so I don't see how what you're saying makes any sense. When I think of Shoegaze I think of stuff like Lush or the Curve track "Cuckoo". That's what most shoegaze seems to sound like in my experience.
Last edited by GURREN LAGANN at Dec 5, 2009,
#27
SP take more of an influence from noise rock IMO than shoegaze, and the way you worded your previous post made it seem you were comparing an album by a band you didn't consider shoegaze and then using a different band which you did consider part of the genre to reinforce it. If not then fair enough, just came across as a no true scotsman
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#28
Quote by Weeping_Demon7
I mean they can. But SM-57s pale into comparison as ribbon mics.


Sontronix do a ribbon mic now (its unusual as it has a built in preamp which requires phantom power, most ribbons need no phantom power) which has been rated up to 130db. The guy who made it tested it by putting his ac30 on full and putting the mic right up to the grill and it withstood that fine so that's a rare example of a ribbon mic made to withstand very high volume. I'm not 100% sure on the price but it isn't by any means incredibly expensive.

Most condensors will take a cranked tube amp if you put them a foot or so away too, it's only if you insist on putting them right to the grill...


edit: An example of an album with cranked amps would probably be most white stripes stuff actually. He tends to play with the amps up to full then puts a muff on it
Last edited by Zoot Allures at Dec 5, 2009,
#29
Quote by GURREN LAGANN
Am I the only one who doesn't necessarily like the sound of a 100W amp cranked? Yeah it's a big wall of power RAWRING at you but it can be disorientating and you start to lose a lot of clarity if you have ears like mine.

I mean even my 4W AC4TV cranked is a bit much... I can take drummer levels for amps just about, that's grand. But anything more than that is a bit much.

Let me guess: Incredible hearing that allows you to listen to any conversation in the room, but when you're at a concert or playing a gig everything fuzzes up because it's like your eardrums are going into overdrive?
Then there's this band called Slice The Cake...

Bunch of faggots putting random riffs together and calling it "progressive" deathcore.
Stupid name.
Probably picked "for teh lulz"

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#30
Quote by Shinozoku
Let me guess: Incredible hearing that allows you to listen to any conversation in the room, but when you're at a concert or playing a gig everything fuzzes up because it's like your eardrums are going into overdrive?


Second part yes. First part not since I started getting Chronic Sinusitis Messed up my eyesight a bit too. My ears just generally aren't great.
#31
Quote by GURREN LAGANN
Second part yes. First part not since I started getting Chronic Sinusitis Messed up my eyesight a bit too. My ears just generally aren't great.

Ah. My ears are great except for one little issue in my left (the left side of my body has so many issues ), and I'm working on selective hearing, and can usually hear when somebody is talking about me from several feet away But too much noise=ear overdrive.
Then there's this band called Slice The Cake...

Bunch of faggots putting random riffs together and calling it "progressive" deathcore.
Stupid name.
Probably picked "for teh lulz"

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