Poll: Do you believe any victimless actions should be criminalized?
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View poll results: Do you believe any victimless actions should be criminalized?
Yes
114 30%
No
265 70%
Voters: 379.
Page 1 of 8
#1
Do you believe any victimless actions should be criminalized? Such as drugs or prostitution?

I ask this because for the most part, I'd have to vote "no" (wait for the poll), but I'd like to see other people's opinion on whether or not they should be criminalized, as well was what exactly a victim is.
#2
I'd say no, but it always depends on the situation. Drugs and prostitution often do end up with victims in the more severe cases
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#3
Shit, voted wrong.

And with these laws the way they are, people are only getting punished for shit some people don't approve of, which I find ridiculous and shameful.
#4
Prostitution has a victim. Some dude getting AIDS from a *****, who was a previous victim. Drugs victimize the users. I don't personally care if people do drugs, but if they were legal, the whole nation would be crazy ass meth addicts and crack heads which would leAd to crime. Such as murder and rape. There will be many victims. The fact that these things are illegal yet available keeps them in moderation
#5
Quote by chaos13
I'd say no, but it always depends on the situation. Drugs and prostitution often do end up with victims in the more severe cases
Well, I didn't really want to dwell on those two issues in particular, but I think the reason for the bolded is often because they're criminalized. Having drugs and prostitution illegal has made them, the market, etc. more dangerous in my opinion.
#7
Quote by gatechballer
Prostitution has a victim. Some dude getting AIDS from a *****, who was a previous victim. Drugs victimize the users. I don't personally care if people do drugs, but if they were legal, the whole nation would be crazy ass meth addicts and crack heads which would leAd to crime. Such as murder and rape. There will be many victims. The fact that these things are illegal yet available keeps them in moderation


Alcohol is legal. Many people drink alcoholic beverages without becoming crazy ass Alcoholics. I recognize that Meth is a lot more addictive than Alcohol, but not everyone that drinks alcohol goes and downs 12 full strength beers everyday.

The point I'm trying to make is most people understand the concept of Moderation, and already know what they can handle.
#8
Quote by gatechballer
Prostitution has a victim. Some dude getting AIDS from a *****, who was a previous victim. Drugs victimize the users. I don't personally care if people do drugs, but if they were legal, the whole nation would be crazy ass meth addicts and crack heads which would leAd to crime. Such as murder and rape. There will be many victims. The fact that these things are illegal yet available keeps them in moderation


so ridiculously wrong. do you still have your DARE shirt from 5th grade?

Portugal decriminalized all drugs and has experienced a drop in drug use and an increase in addicts seeking medical attention/therapy.

the only thing drug laws do is force otherwise upstanding citizens to deal with law enforcement. drug laws militarize and weaponize the drug dealers and put millions of people in jail for no good reason.
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#9
Quote by gatechballer
Prostitution has a victim. Some dude getting AIDS from a *****, who was a previous victim. Drugs victimize the users. I don't personally care if people do drugs, but if they were legal, the whole nation would be crazy ass meth addicts and crack heads which would leAd to crime. Such as murder and rape. There will be many victims. The fact that these things are illegal yet available keeps them in moderation



Nations with the 'bad' drugs legalized have less overall use of the drugs than nations who continue to keep them illegal.
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#10
Quote by gatechballer
Prostitution has a victim. Some dude getting AIDS from a *****, who was a previous victim. Drugs victimize the users. I don't personally care if people do drugs, but if they were legal, the whole nation would be crazy ass meth addicts and crack heads which would leAd to crime. Such as murder and rape. There will be many victims. The fact that these things are illegal yet available keeps them in moderation

Can you provide a source for that? Have you ever considered that if drugs were legalized, then drug lords would either have to go bust or become legitimate businessmen? Have you ever considered that people commit crimes to get drugs because drugs are illegal, and that if drugs were legal, people wouldn't have to commit crimes to get them anymore (or at least at a lesser rate)?

The answer to the poll's question seems to be a resounding "no."
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#11
Well heavy drug addiction impacts the family quite severely.
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#12
Quote by devourke
Alcohol is legal. Many people drink alcoholic beverages without becoming crazy ass Alcoholics. I recognize that Meth is a lot more addictive than Alcohol, but not everyone that drinks alcohol goes and downs 12 full strength beers everyday.

The point I'm trying to make is most people understand the concept of Moderation, and already know what they can handle.



Hallucinations are much different first of all. And I do see your point about the alcohol, but also imagine if alcohol were legal for all ages. About 50% of teens would probably become alcoholics. Also, one beer compared to one shroom. Totally different. I just think certain drugs are illegal because the effects of them are sooooo dangerous you can't even mess around with them. It's hard to sniff coke in moderation, you know.
#13
Quote by devourke
Alcohol is legal. Many people drink alcoholic beverages without becoming crazy ass Alcoholics. I recognize that Meth is a lot more addictive than Alcohol, but not everyone that drinks alcohol goes and downs 12 full strength beers everyday.

The point I'm trying to make is most people understand the concept of Moderation, and already know what they can handle.



Hallucinations are much different first of all. And I do see your point about the alcohol, but also imagine if alcohol were legal for all ages. About 50% of teens would probably become alcoholics. Also, one beer compared to one shroom. Totally different. I just think certain drugs are illegal because the effects of them are sooooo dangerous you can't even mess around with them. It's hard to sniff coke in moderation, you know.
#14
Quote by gatechballer
Prostitution has a victim. Some dude getting AIDS from a *****, who was a previous victim. Drugs victimize the users. I don't personally care if people do drugs, but if they were legal, the whole nation would be crazy ass meth addicts and crack heads which would leAd to crime. Such as murder and rape. There will be many victims. The fact that these things are illegal yet available keeps them in moderation

It's actually been shown that legalization of drugs, after an initial spike, leads to decreased use. Especially when the money formerly used to control them is put into things like education.

Also, who do you know who has said "Golly, I'd really like to smoke some crystal meth... I just wish it wasn't against the law!"
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#15
Quote by The Madcap
Well, I didn't really want to dwell on those two issues in particular, but I think the reason for the bolded is often because they're criminalized. Having drugs and prostitution illegal has made them, the market, etc. more dangerous in my opinion.



Yes, I agree with you, if they were to be made legal and into a "trade" of sorts, many people's lives could be saved.
However, most criminal activities DO have a victim, which is why they are illegal. Lines had to be drawn somewhere, and those lines don't allow for varied cases, which they should.
ex) A couple friends get together to smoke a bowl, and get caught. Where's the victim? They're facing consequences for hanging out and relaxing when they weren't hurting anybody.
Now, if they got into a car and hit someone cause they were stoned, that's a different matter completely.
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#17
Quote by The Madcap
Do you believe any victimless actions should be criminalized? Such as drugs or prostitution?

I ask this because for the most part, I'd have to vote "no" (wait for the poll), but I'd like to see other people's opinion on whether or not they should be criminalized, as well was what exactly a victim is.

I would argue that some prostitution can be deemed as having a victim. Either being forced into prostitution, remaining there because they feel it's their only option and no longer enjoying it, etc. But I understand what you're saying.


And, no, I don't believe victimless crimes should be crimes.
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#18
Quote by gatechballer
Prostitution has a victim. Some dude getting AIDS from a *****, who was a previous victim. Drugs victimize the users. I don't personally care if people do drugs, but if they were legal, the whole nation would be crazy ass meth addicts and crack heads which would leAd to crime. Such as murder and rape. There will be many victims. The fact that these things are illegal yet available keeps them in moderation

Bull. Illegalisation creates victims. Worried about STDs in prostitutes? Legalise it and make a law for all prostitutes to enforce clients wear condoms. Worried about methheads? Let us make them legal so methheads can seek real help without being worried about legal consequences.
#19
Prostitution is hardly victimless. Even where it's legal and heavily regulated everyone of those girls is a victim.
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#20
Quote by chaos13
Yes, I agree with you, if they were to be made legal and into a "trade" of sorts, many people's lives could be saved.
However, most criminal activities DO have a victim, which is why they are illegal. Lines had to be drawn somewhere, and those lines don't allow for varied cases, which they should.
ex) A couple friends get together to smoke a bowl, and get caught. Where's the victim? They're facing consequences for hanging out and relaxing when they weren't hurting anybody.
Now, if they got into a car and hit someone cause they were stoned, that's a different matter completely.



And they would be busted for a DWI or DUI or whatever. No reason to keep weed illegal for that reason.
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#21
Quote by gatechballer
Prostitution has a victim. Some dude getting AIDS from a *****, who was a previous victim. Drugs victimize the users. I don't personally care if people do drugs, but if they were legal, the whole nation would be crazy ass meth addicts and crack heads which would leAd to crime. Such as murder and rape. There will be many victims. The fact that these things are illegal yet available keeps them in moderation
1. (Addressing the bold) You're assuming usage would rise.

2. Having these illegal has made them more dangerous. If prostitution were legal, it'd be easier to prevent "some dude getting AIDS from a *****". Not to mention the only difference between prostitution and sexual intercourse (besides one is legal and the other isn't) is that one person is paying for it and another is gaining profit. Prostitution itself does victimize anyone anymore than a one night stand. Whether or not STDs occur more frequently when it comes to sex with prostitutes is another story. But in both a one night stand and a person having sex with a prostitute, both willingly have sex knowing there's a possibility of an STD. There's consent.

3. Drugs victimize a user no more than eating fast food or drinking alcohol does, in the sense that people are aware that it can harm them (most of the time) and are willing to take that chance.
#22
Quote by myself101
Well heavy drug addiction impacts the family quite severely.



So does criminalizing drug addiction, throwing the guilty party in jail, and forcing them in with the general prison population.

The drug user then has to join a gang to keep from getting beaten or raped. When he leaves the prison, he is a former convict, so he cannot find a job.

When he can't find a job, he is going to resort to robbery, selling more drugs, etc.

If it were not illegal in the first place, he would remain a productive member of society. When drugs are made illegal, he cannot remain a productive member of society for long.
#23
Quote by iantheman
It's actually been shown that legalization of drugs, after an initial spike, leads to decreased use. Especially when the money formerly used to control them is put into things like education.

Also, who do you know who has said "Golly, I'd really like to smoke some crystal meth... I just wish it wasn't against the law!"


It's much harder to get when it's illegal. But about the decreased use after legalizing, that depends on the drug. Like, I believe usage of weed would go down big time if it gets legalized, but drugs like PCP and meth and crack cocaine are waaay more addictive and dangerous even in small doses. Smoke a little weed and you'll feel buzzed. Eat one shroom and you think you're getting eaten by a huge bird and then freeze in front of a mirror in the dark, staring at yourself for 3 and a half hours. (true story by the way- happened to my friend) he was so terrified he's never touched a drug other than weed since
#24
Quote by dst127
So does criminalizing drug addiction, throwing the guilty party in jail, and forcing them in with the general prison population.

The drug user then has to join a gang to keep from getting beaten or raped. When he leaves the prison, he is a former convict, so he cannot find a job.

When he can't find a job, he is going to resort to robbery, selling more drugs, etc.

If it were not illegal in the first place, he would remain a productive member of society. When drugs are made illegal, he cannot remain a productive member of society for long.


I meant it wasn't a victimless crime.
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#25
Quote by gatechballer
Hallucinations are much different first of all. And I do see your point about the alcohol, but also imagine if alcohol were legal for all ages. About 50% of teens would probably become alcoholics. Also, one beer compared to one shroom. Totally different. I just think certain drugs are illegal because the effects of them are sooooo dangerous you can't even mess around with them. It's hard to sniff coke in moderation, you know.

You clearly have no knowledge about drugs.

There are countries where the drinking age is much lower, and much less strictly enforced. This has the opposite effect from what you would think, By bringing teen drinking out into public, it greatly moderates it. You don't see people doing kegstands when they're legally allowed into a bar.

To your next point; the effect of psychedelic drug have been very wrongly portrayed by the media. People on psychedelics almost never pose a threat to themselves or others, and many come out of the experience having learned a lot.
Also, The effects of one shroom would be similar in intensity to the effects of one drink, and I know several people who have sniffed coke in moderation, and none who have gotten out of control with it.
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#26
Quote by gatechballer
It's much harder to get when it's illegal.


really....
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#27
Quote by Craigo
Bull. Illegalisation creates victims. Worried about STDs in prostitutes? Legalise it and make a law for all prostitutes to enforce clients wear condoms. Worried about methheads? Let us make them legal so methheads can seek real help without being worried about legal consequences.

make meth legal? really? make it legal is your solution?
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#28
In a lot of cases, it's not necessarily people thinking it's 'wrong' in a completely victim-related sense, but that it prevents escalation. In essentials 'if X is legal, why can't Y be legal? If Y is now legal, why not make Z legal (ad nauseum )?'

For example, age of consent. In reality, the high majority of 17 year-olds aren't THAT much sexually or psychologically developed than 18 year-olds, so why not make the (average) age of consent 17? Same logic follows from 17 to 16. 16 to 15. Eventually from 13 to 12. If the law gives in to a small section of people, the precedent will be to give in to more.

This happens naturally, of course, such as in the case of civil rights, and that was incredibly progressive and appropriate. However, not all methods of appeasement end in the most morally sound figure. The truth is each situation is unique and can be argued both ways, but that's why certain things such as prostitution are illegal.
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#29
Quote by The Madcap
1. (Addressing the bold) You're assuming usage would rise.

2. Having these illegal has made them more dangerous. If prostitution were legal, it'd be easier to prevent "some dude getting AIDS from a *****". Not to mention the only difference between prostitution and sexual intercourse (besides one is legal and the other isn't) is that one person is paying for it and another is gaining profit. Prostitution itself does victimize anyone anymore than a one night stand. Whether or not STDs occur more frequently when it comes to sex with prostitutes is another story. But in both a one night stand and a person having sex with a prostitute, both willingly have sex knowing there's a possibility of an STD. There's consent.

3. Drugs victimize a user no more than eating fast food or drinking alcohol does, in the sense that people are aware that it can harm them (most of the time) and are willing to take that chance.


1. Read previous post of mine.

2. I see what your saying and my view swayed a little bit, but now I'm thinking less people would screw a stranger for free than for a couple hundred bucks. So I agree halfway with you, but I still feel like it holds back on sex with strangers which often lead to STDs. But I see your point.

3. No. Very different addiction levels, and also the effects they have in the smallest doses. Also, read my last post
#30
Quote by chaos13
Yes, I agree with you, if they were to be made legal and into a "trade" of sorts, many people's lives could be saved.
However, most criminal activities DO have a victim, which is why they are illegal. Lines had to be drawn somewhere, and those lines don't allow for varied cases, which they should.
ex) A couple friends get together to smoke a bowl, and get caught. Where's the victim? They're facing consequences for hanging out and relaxing when they weren't hurting anybody.
Now, if they got into a car and hit someone cause they were stoned, that's a different matter completely.

And that's why driving stoned would be illegal, just like driving drunk is now.

Granted, marijuana use can't be proven nearly as quickly as alcohol use can (what with breathalyzers and whatnot), but if they killed someone, they would be held in jail until tests can come back anyway.
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#31
Quote by GaijinFoot
make meth legal? really? make it legal is your solution?

Yeah. It's not perfect but it's the best we've got.

a) You'll get a lot safer stuff on the market with regulation
b) it'll be harder for kids to get it
c) people can seek help easier
d) stops drug barons and drug trade related violence
e) be cheaper so methheads won't have to resort to crime
f) PROHIBITION DOESN'T WORK. Why not spend all that money on, ohh, I dunno, good education, prevention and assistance.

Just a few.
#32
Quote by myself101
Well heavy drug addiction impacts the family quite severely.


So does Sororicide.

I know which one I'd rather happen to my family.
#33
Quote by gatechballer
It's much harder to get when it's illegal. But about the decreased use after legalizing, that depends on the drug. Like, I believe usage of weed would go down big time if it gets legalized, but drugs like PCP and meth and crack cocaine are waaay more addictive and dangerous even in small doses. Smoke a little weed and you'll feel buzzed. Eat one shroom and you think you're getting eaten by a huge bird and then freeze in front of a mirror in the dark, staring at yourself for 3 and a half hours. (true story by the way- happened to my friend) he was so terrified he's never touched a drug other than weed since
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#34
They should criminalize the ''war on drugs'' it makes much much more victims and is a gigantic waste of cash.
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#35
Every activity on the face of this earth has responsibilities that go with it, and I vote no on this because you are not a victim of yourself, you are either Ignorant or Dumb, but that's why it pays to learn about what you are getting into. Anything you do can be harmful to you, and it's your choice to either understand that and take the proper precautions or choose not to do it. That's why I voted no, because I feel as a human being of adult age, it is YOUR responsibility to keep yourself safe from these so called "victim-less crimes". I'm a firm believer in Darwinism.

Like DaddyTwoFoot says, the more you restrict, the more they do it.
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#36
Quote by myself101
I meant it wasn't a victimless crime.

DUI isn't a victimless crime. Possessing or smoking weed in your own home is a victimless crime.


Quote by GaijinFoot
make meth legal? really? make it legal is your solution?

as opposed to continuing a drug war that creates more victims every day? legalization actually makes sense compared to what we have now.
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#37
Quote by Craigo
Yeah. It's not perfect but it's the best we've got.

a) You'll get a lot safer stuff on the market with regulation
b) it'll be harder for kids to get it
c) people can seek help easier
d) stops drug barons and drug trade related violence
e) be cheaper so methheads won't have to resort to crime
f) PROHIBITION DOESN'T WORK. Why not spend all that money on, ohh, I dunno, good education, prevention and assistance.

Just a few.


B. No it'll be easier to get like beer. As long as you have a friend or sibling like 2 years older you get all you want. People can still get stuff rihght now, but it's more difficult.
C. You've obviously never met someone addicted to a serious drug. Or studied it. If a guy is addicted to heroin for example, he's probably not gonna ask for help. At a certain point he feels like it's what he needs to survive.
D.It won't drop it off because it will be sold on the streets because of "better quality". It may reduce the violence a little, but not drastically.
E. Now your sacrificing peoples lives so others can achieve more, rather than trying to help everyone.
#38
Quote by GaijinFoot
make meth legal? really? make it legal is your solution?

It's probably the best way, as stated Portugal decriminalised all drugs.

Also, a drug addict will find drugs regardless of the law.

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#39
Quote by gatechballer
Hallucinations are much different first of all. And I do see your point about the alcohol, but also imagine if alcohol were legal for all ages. About 50% of teens would probably become alcoholics. Also, one beer compared to one shroom. Totally different. I just think certain drugs are illegal because the effects of them are sooooo dangerous you can't even mess around with them. It's hard to sniff coke in moderation, you know.



You raise some good point's sir, and I will be willing to work with a compromise with you.

Hallucinogens/Other assorted drugs that'll **** you up = Illegal

Marijuana/Other recreational drugs = Legal for a certain age
#40
Quote by gatechballer
It's much harder to get when it's illegal

No addicts has ever been stopped by lack of connections. Also, legalization makes it much harder for minors to get their hands on the stuff. I could go out and get a bit of weed much more easily than I could get my hands on any alcohol.

But about the decreased use after legalizing, that depends on the drug. Like, I believe usage of weed would go down big time if it gets legalized, but drugs like PCP and meth and crack cocaine are waaay more addictive and dangerous even in small doses.

You're basing that on absolutely nothing, and like I said before, people who want to try coke, aren't going to be stopped by the law.
Smoke a little weed and you'll feel buzzed. Eat one shroom and you think you're getting eaten by a huge bird and then freeze in front of a mirror in the dark, staring at yourself for 3 and a half hours. (true story by the way- happened to my friend) he was so terrified he's never touched a drug other than weed since

Your friend is full of shit. I know lots of people who said they tripped their brains out on small doses of psychedelics, until they took a normal dose, and realized that what they had before was 80% placebo. It would take a shitload of shrooms to get effects that intense. Even if what you said is the case, explain how your friend is worse off having tried shrooms. People who are responsible with drugs, and use them properly should not have to be arrested because a small fraction take it out of control.
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Last edited by iantheman at Dec 6, 2009,