#1
Hi there,

my question today is relating to scales and learning them effectively. I was wondering what would be the most important ones to learn, based on the music I play/like (U2, The Killers, Springsteen etc). ie, Major, Minor, Major pentatonic, minor pentatonic.

Also, I have guitar pro, and was wondering if i can just use the scale diagram function on that to see the scale map, and then just memorize them. Is that the right way to go about it or am i missing something?

Sorry I know this questions been asked a million times on here but i'm really stuck.

Ps-I don't want to get a teacher, can't afford one and last one sucked, put me off

Thanks everyone
#2
Major, Minor, Major pentatonic, minor pentatonic... i guess you answered your own question
#3
Those scales are more than enough for 90% of the music that's out there, but learning patterns alone isn't enough - in all honesty that doesn't really teach you much at all.

Patterns just show you where you can find the notes of a scale, but that's not an awful lot of use to you if you don't know what those notes are, how they relate to each other or have some idea as to how you can actually use them. In short, learn the notes on the fretboard, learn about intervals, learn how to construct the major scale, learn to recognise its sounds, learn how to harmonise it and construct chords from it - everything else relates back to it.
Actually called Mark!

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#4
Quote by steven seagull
Those scales are more than enough for 90% of the music that's out there, but learning patterns alone isn't enough - in all honesty that doesn't really teach you much at all.

Patterns just show you where you can find the notes of a scale, but that's not an awful lot of use to you if you don't know what those notes are, how they relate to each other or have some idea as to how you can actually use them. In short, learn the notes on the fretboard, learn about intervals, learn how to construct the major scale, learn to recognise its sounds, learn how to harmonise it and construct chords from it - everything else relates back to it.


Great answer, but here's a follow up question. How long should it take a reasonable person to be able to learn all these things that you listed below?

the notes on the fretboard
learn about intervals
learn how to construct the major scale
learn to recognise its sounds
learn how to harmonise it
and construct chords from it -
#5
Quote by steven seagull
Those scales are more than enough for 90% of the music that's out there, but learning patterns alone isn't enough .


Well, learning any 1 thing on it's own, and nothing else, generally "isn't enough". There is no reason to single out scale patterns in that regard.

I mean what if you JUST learned all the notes on the neck and nothing else, would that be good?

What if you just learned scale construction formulas (those are patterns btw) and nothing else?

Just because someone mentions learning scale patterns doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to stop there. Id say in most cases it's safer to assume that learning those patterns will serve as a "gateway" that leads to music theory and learning more about music in general. People take it as far as they want/need. The ones that do choose to take it further will find that their familiarity with the shapes on the fretboard is a benefit.


Quote by hellofromAus

Ps-I don't want to get a teacher, can't afford one and last one sucked, put me off


I think it's worth considering the possibility that your attitude may have been a factor.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Dec 7, 2009,
#6
Start with the major scale. Its the simplest in terms of construction, and you can derive pretty much any scale you'll ever need from it. Understand the major scale and you'll make learning every other scale about a thousand times easier. But try and really understand it - don't just learn to play it, learn how its constructed in terms of steps (WWHWWWH), intervals (Root, Maj 2nd, Maj 3rd, Perfect 4th etc) and notes (eg G Maj = G A B C D E F#)

And don't write off all teachers just cos you had one bad experience. My teacher is awesome - I would suck without him. If you find you can afford it ask around and find yourself a good one. Its definitely worth it.
#7
In order of what to know first:

Major Scale
Minor Scale
-Natural
-Harmonic
-Melodic
Major Pentatonic
Minor Pentatonic
Blues

All of these are good scales for things like rock, alternative, indie, metal, etc...
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#8
Interesting breakdown on the rder of scales ^^.

The order I teach in my online lesson program is as follows:

The Pentatonic in all directions at any time in 4 dimensions
The Blues scale in all directions at any time in 4 dimensions, Both minor and Major blues forms
All the modes, which include Ionian (Major) and Aeoulian (Minor)

This way when you know every Major scale you can play every mode just as effortlessly. When you can solo in 4 dimensions in Major you'll be able to do likewise with the other modes also!

Later I can incorporate the Harm Minor to reflect the Natural 7th from Aeolian, thereby tying it to information the user already knows. I do the same with Phrygian Dominant, and Dom Pentatonic

Crazy but it's true
Last edited by Sean0913 at Dec 7, 2009,
#9
Quote by Sean0913
Interesting breakdown on the rder of scales ^^.

The order I teach in my online lesson program is as follows:

The Pentatonic in all directions at any time in 4 dimensions
The Blues scale in all directions at any time in 4 dimensions, Both minor and Major blues forms
All the modes, which include Ionian (Major) and Aeoulian (Minor)

This way when you know every Major scale you can play every mode just as effortlessly. When you can solo in 4 dimensions in Major you'll be able to do likewise with the other modes also!

Later I can incorporate the Harm Minor to reflect the Natural 7th from Aeolian, thereby tying it to information the user already knows. I do the same with Phrygian Dominant, and Dom Pentatonic

Crazy but it's true


I said Major first because it is pretty much the granddaddy of all the scales that I listed. I find it is the most effective but that is just my opinion.
Quote by Tyler Durden
It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

Erowid
#10
Quote by GuitarMunky
Well, learning any 1 thing on it's own, and nothing else, generally "isn't enough". There is no reason to single out scale patterns in that regard.

I mean what if you JUST learned all the notes on the neck and nothing else, would that be good?

What if you just learned scale construction formulas (those are patterns btw) and nothing else?

Just because someone mentions learning scale patterns doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to stop there. Id say in most cases it's safer to assume that learning those patterns will serve as a "gateway" that leads to music theory and learning more about music in general. People take it as far as they want/need. The ones that do choose to take it further will find that their familiarity with the shapes on the fretboard is a benefit.


I think it's worth considering the possibility that your attitude may have been a factor.

ffs give it a rest with your poor defenceless scale patterns.

I "singled them out" because it was part of the original question you retard - try reading what's actually written rather than looking for the first hint of something you can disagree with.
Actually called Mark!

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#11
Quote by RockGuitar92
I said Major first because it is pretty much the granddaddy of all the scales that I listed. I find it is the most effective but that is just my opinion.



It is, without a doubt from a theory standpoint the most important scale to learn. All forms derive from it.

But the reason I start with the Pents is to build confidence and inspiration, as there are very few ways to go wrong once you start playing them against the correct chord progression.

As a teacher, part of my job is also to build confidence and inspire the student, to show them how quickly they can be sounding great. Once they have learned this and can play this in 4 dimensions, a byproduct of learning and inspiration is the desire to learn more,w hich is why they are then ready and excited to learn the major scales.
#12
Quote by steven seagull
ffs give it a rest with your poor defenceless scale patterns.

I "singled them out" because it was part of the original question you retard - try reading what's actually written rather than looking for the first hint of something you can disagree with.


YOU give it a rest. You had no need to inject the anti-patterns statement, other than to push that agenda. And please, keep the insults to yourself. I didn't insult you, I just brought up a relevant rebuttal to your insistence that scale patterns are something people should be cautious about learning.

The thing is, minus the "patterns aren't an awful lot of use" part, I agree with your advice.

Even if you don't understand the theory, but you listen...... the patterns are useful.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Dec 7, 2009,
#13
thanks everyone for you very helpful replies

- First of all, yes i'm not just interested in the patterns and just knowing where to play (ie fret), i'm more interested in learning to play the notes, and what i'm playing and why and all that.

-Also, I always had a good attitude towards learning with my teacher but everytime I asked him to teach me some theroy he would just go back to teaching me to play songs (ie get the tab and do whats there) which I thought I could already play alright with technique etc, i just suck at theory (until I learn it I hope)

Cheers
#14
also, is there any order i should learn them in in terms of keys, like c major first then just work through the keys in order of numbers of accidentals or...?
#15
Quote by GuitarMunky
YOU give it a rest. You had no need to inject the anti-patterns statement, other than to push that agenda. And please, keep the insults to yourself. I didn't insult you, I just brought up a relevant rebuttal to your insistence that scale patterns are something people should be cautious about learning.

The thing is, minus the "patterns aren't an awful lot of use" part, I agree with your advice.

Even if you don't understand the theory, but you listen...... the patterns are useful.

Again, read the question you spanner - which was essentially "Will memorising the patterns be enough", and obviously the answer is no.

You always revert to type, desperately trying to pluck an argument out of thin air where none exists and it's starting to get really tiresome. You don't seem capable of presenting an opinion without slyly trying to devalue someone elses regardless of whether its's valid or not. There was absolutely no need to "rebut" anything but as usual you just couldn't help yourself could you? As soon as you get the slightest sniff of that chip on your shoulder you suddenly lose the ability to understand the english language in favour of starting a fight.

I'll insult you all I want because quite frankly I'm sick and tired of you being a tool.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

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Last edited by steven seagull at Dec 8, 2009,