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#1
What do you think are the heaviest intervals that you tend to use, how many semitone's are in the distance between the notes? do you like to start on a higher note and back down to a lower note or vice versa?

just curious as to what people may say.
#2
Well, I use octaves a whole lot, and more often from lower to higher than vice versa. I think this will be a pretty common answer.
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Guitars: Ibanez SV5470F, Ibanez Xpt700, Fender MIM Standard Stratocaster ('04-'05), Jackson Ps-2
Ashton AG200,
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#3
im confused what you mean by "heavy." Are you asking what intervals will sound good for metal music?
Quote by jemjabella42
People look too much into body language. Sometimes I don't make eye contact with people because they are ugly.
#5
2nds and 7ths are quite dissonant intervals, other than that i dont know what to say
#8
to further clarify my question, we all as guitar players have our tendencies and common motions we tend to rely on when the going gets tough and heavy. I'm basically wanted to know what intervals you like to rely on, maybe going back and forth between. Not necessarily the most creepy sounding, but really just the heaviest sounding, I'm thinking more along a dropped C or dropped D tuning stuff like this

A-0-0-1-0-0-1
D-0-0-1-0-0-1

I rely on things like that for the heavy heat of the battle in the midst of a mosh pit type feel...but im looking to see if other people can suggest some other intervals that sound heavy and aren't as overdone
#9
you're talking about power chords. In terms of intervals, its called a Perfect 5th. This kind of chord is often coupled with an octave on top.

you're question doesnt really make sense to me. What interval do you rely on???? What does this mean?
Quote by jemjabella42
People look too much into body language. Sometimes I don't make eye contact with people because they are ugly.
#11
just do what all metal players do when they want pseudo heaviness

turn up distortion knob and spam avoid notes
#12
just do what motoko always does when he wants to make himself feel superior

find a thread about metal and make some holier than thou comment
#13
A-0-0-2-0-0-3
D-0-0-2-0-0-3
Quote by RazorTheAwesome
Lol at Bender

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Quote by theguitarist

I got to warn you for spam though...

Quote by Shredoftheday
Nicely put good sir

I witnessed Night Of The Pear 2
#14
Quote by jesse music
just do what motoko always does when he wants to make himself feel superior

find a thread about metal and make some holier than thou comment


dont do this
#15
I'm not sure I quite understand the question...

...however, I think the heaviest interval there is, is the third (major but especially minor). You can use it as a jump in melodies (which is kinda what you're talking about, right?), but it's most effective in harmonies.

Thirds aren't too close that they clash, but they aren't so far apart. This means that their harmonics add up and can sound huge!
#16
Quote by tenfold
tritone (diminished 5th)


A tritone's an augmented fourth. Not to be a jerk.
#17
Quote by Dodeka
A tritone's an augmented fourth. Not to be a jerk.

It sounds just the same right? Or have I misunderstood what aug is?

One day you`re gonna wake up and you`ll be 30 years old and you won`t have done a damn thing with your life.
#18
Quote by keven93
It sounds just the same right? Or have I misunderstood what aug is?


you can say either. sometimes saying augmented fourth is better in a certain context (like in a lydian mode, since its notated as #4 rather than b5)
#19
Quote by motoko
you can say either. sometimes saying augmented fourth is better in a certain context (like in a lydian mode, since its notated as #4 rather than b5)

Ok, but in general, are aug-chords supposed to be #5? So in a C chord, the tones are 1, 3, #5?

One day you`re gonna wake up and you`ll be 30 years old and you won`t have done a damn thing with your life.
#21
Quote by jackBrockin2
to further clarify my question, we all as guitar players have our tendencies and common motions we tend to rely on when the going gets tough and heavy. I'm basically wanted to know what intervals you like to rely on, maybe going back and forth between. Not necessarily the most creepy sounding, but really just the heaviest sounding, I'm thinking more along a dropped C or dropped D tuning stuff like this

A-0-0-1-0-0-1
D-0-0-1-0-0-1

I rely on things like that for the heavy heat of the battle in the midst of a mosh pit type feel...but im looking to see if other people can suggest some other intervals that sound heavy and aren't as overdone

I gave you some above. If you can't find them on the fretboard, I advise you to learn theory.

Quote by Dodeka
A tritone's an augmented fourth. Not to be a jerk.

Actually it's either or. Depends on the context mostly.
#22
Quote by tenfold
Actually it's either or. Depends on the context mostly.


It makes more sense to call it the augmented fourth. Tritone literally means three whole tones. An augmented fourth is three whole tones, while a diminished fifth is 2 whole tones and two semitones. It doesn't really matter though...
#24
Quote by keven93
Ok, but in general, are aug-chords supposed to be #5? So in a C chord, the tones are 1, 3, #5?


yes but he's talking about intervals not chords
#25
Octave with a third:

e|------|
B|------|
G|------|
D|----5-|
A|----3-|
E|----3-|
edgy meems only friendo :^)
#26
Quote by thenextkirk92
Octave with a third:

e|------|
B|------|
G|------|
D|----5-|
A|----3-|
E|----3-|

That's not an octave with a third. It's an inverted power chord.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#27
Quote by DaddyTwoFoot
That's not an octave with a third. It's an inverted power chord.


Shows how much music theory I know.
edgy meems only friendo :^)
#28
^ isnt that a Perfect 4th with an Octave??
Quote by jemjabella42
People look too much into body language. Sometimes I don't make eye contact with people because they are ugly.
#29
Quote by flea's trumpet
^ isnt that a Perfect 4th with an Octave??

It can be thought of like that, but in context it's much more likely to function as an inverted power chord (in that case, C5/G). It would still sound like a C power chord, but with some added meat because of the low G. If the bass guitar played a C underneath it, it would firmly be heard as a C power chord.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#30
For most purposes the b2, tritone and m6 are all pretty "heavy". But it depends on context more.
#31
Quote by Dodeka
A tritone's an augmented fourth. Not to be a jerk.

a diminished 5th and an augmented 4th are the same thing, not to be a jerk
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#32
I find that going down a major third can sound quite metal. and of course chromatics. And going down a major 7th.
#33
Quote by JRKul393
a diminished 5th and an augmented 4th are the same thing, not to be a jerk


An augmented fourth is an augmented fourth and a diminished fifth is a diminished fifth. They just happen to share frequency ratios in certain temperaments, but either way they're not the same thing.
#34
Quote by Dodeka
An augmented fourth is an augmented fourth and a diminished fifth is a diminished fifth. They just happen to share frequency ratios in certain temperaments, but either way they're not the same thing.


its the same tone dude, thats what im saying
Rig:
Jay Turser ES-335 w/ 2 Burstbuckers OR
J&E Custom w Duncan SSL3 and SHL59>
MXR Dynacomp>
Ibanez TS-9>
Dunlop Crybaby>
Fender Hot Rod DeVille 212
effects loop:
Boss BD-2>
Danelectro Vibe>
Boss DD-6>
Morley Volume

my shit screams.
#35
Maybe Im wrong, but I took the question in the context of riff writing, and not chords. As in Megadeth's Symphony of Destruction (F, E, E.) Intervals between chords, and not so much in the chord constructions themselves. As in half step, whole, etc. Anyways, if Im understanding that correctly, then Id say half a step. If it is in fact how you guys interpretted it, then I agree with thenextkirk92.
#36
Quote by JRKul393
its the same tone dude, thats what im saying


Depending on what you mean by tone. They're two different intervals that take the form of different notes from a particular starting note.

Syntonically, an augmented fourth is a chain of sixth ascending perfect fifths, and a diminished fifth is a chain of six ascending perfect fourths. They can be tempered to the same frequency ratio, but that doesn't make them the same interval by name or function.

A tritone specifically refers to a chain of three whole tones. Only a major second is a whole tone. An augmented fourth contains three whole tones, while a diminished fifth contains two whole tones and a diminished third (not a whole tone).
#37
A tritone specifically refers to a chain of three whole tones. Only a major second is a whole tone. An augmented fourth contains three whole tones, while a diminished fifth contains two whole tones and a diminished third (not a whole tone).So describe a diminished third in terms of tones and semitones then.

I was gonna leave this but I can't resist.

I play exclusively in 12TET as is the music I listen and the musical system I was exposed to growing up. So my logic is based on that system.

Sure in other tuning systems the perfect fifth and augmented fourth are not the same pitch and the distance referred to by the term "tone" differs from one interval to the next. The tritone might traditionally refer to only the augmented fourth. That being said, there's a reason our musical system is now based on 12TET. Leave antiquity behind and get with the times dude.

in 12TET the tone and semitone are a standardized unit of measurement kind of like centimeters and meters. They measure the absolute distance of an interval. A tone is equal to two semitones. As such it makes no difference if we measure something in semitones or tones just like it makes no difference if I measure my height as 190cm or 1.9m.

An interval (scale degree) on the other hand is a different way of describing a distance between two pitches based on reference to it's function and a comparison to the degrees of the major scale.

So a perfect fifth is seven half steps or three tones plus a semitone. However, by following your logic the implication seems to be this is wrong and it should be described as two tones and a minor third. But then a minor third is a tone plus a semitone - so you end up with a perfect fifth being three tones plus a semitone. Lower that distance by a semitone and you get three tones (a tritone) but it's not an augmented fourth it's a perfect fifth lowered a semitone - a diminished fifth. You could also say it is six semitones, or you could say that it is two tones and two semitones or even one tone plus four semitones.

Insisting a perfect fifth is two tones plus a diminished third is mixing your measurements you would be better off calling it two major seconds and a diminished third. But if we look at tones and semitones then just work out how many tones or semitones make up a diminished third and you're away.
Si
#38
Quote by 20Tigers
So describe a diminished third in terms of tones and semitones then.


There's the chromatic semitone and diatonic semitone, the diatonic semitone being a minor second. The whole tone, on the other hand, is only a major second. We've tempered the chromatic and diatonic semitones to the same size. The major second and diminished third have also been tempered to the same size, but traditionally, a whole tone is only used to describe a major second. It's not incredibly logical, I'll give you that.

Tones and semitones are sometimes used in a cent-like manner these days, and that's how they should be used in my view.

It's not even necessary to base your logic on 12-edo to arrive at your argument. It works even when a syntonic logic isn't within the practical confines of 12-edo. There's definitely an inconsistency in how we [traditionally] relate tones and semitones to other intervals.
Last edited by Dodeka at Dec 9, 2009,
#39
Quote by 20Tigers
So describe a diminished third in terms of tones and semitones then.

I was gonna leave this but I can't resist.

I play exclusively in 12TET as is the music I listen and the musical system I was exposed to growing up. So my logic is based on that system.

Sure in other tuning systems the perfect fifth and augmented fourth are not the same pitch and the distance referred to by the term "tone" differs from one interval to the next. The tritone might traditionally refer to only the augmented fourth. That being said, there's a reason our musical system is now based on 12TET. Leave antiquity behind and get with the times dude.

in 12TET the tone and semitone are a standardized unit of measurement kind of like centimeters and meters. They measure the absolute distance of an interval. A tone is equal to two semitones. As such it makes no difference if we measure something in semitones or tones just like it makes no difference if I measure my height as 190cm or 1.9m.

An interval (scale degree) on the other hand is a different way of describing a distance between two pitches based on reference to it's function and a comparison to the degrees of the major scale.

So a perfect fifth is seven half steps or three tones plus a semitone. However, by following your logic the implication seems to be this is wrong and it should be described as two tones and a minor third. But then a minor third is a tone plus a semitone - so you end up with a perfect fifth being three tones plus a semitone. Lower that distance by a semitone and you get three tones (a tritone) but it's not an augmented fourth it's a perfect fifth lowered a semitone - a diminished fifth. You could also say it is six semitones, or you could say that it is two tones and two semitones or even one tone plus four semitones.

Insisting a perfect fifth is two tones plus a diminished third is mixing your measurements you would be better off calling it two major seconds and a diminished third. But if we look at tones and semitones then just work out how many tones or semitones make up a diminished third and you're away.



and I'd like to add that one of the most common uses of the tritone (other than a dominant 7th chord) is diminished in chords which is 1 ♭3 ♭5.

and arguing over what to call a certain interval without context is extremely trivial. without context there's no reason calling it a ♯4 is more correct than ♭5 or vice versa.
#40
Quote by The4thHorsemen
and I'd like to add that one of the most common uses of the tritone (other than a dominant 7th chord) is diminished in chords which is 1 ♭3 ♭5.


By traditional reckoning, neither of those are tritones.

Semitones come in diatonic and chromatic varieties, but whole tones are diatonic and...? Exactly.


I am in agreement that a diminished third (or doubly diminished fourth, or doubly augmented second or what have you ) should be considered whole tones, though. They just aren't until we redefine the whole tone. It would make a whole tone scale a whole tone scale.
Last edited by Dodeka at Dec 9, 2009,
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