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#1
Between $50 million and $6 billion may be owed to musicians and artists in Canada, but not from your run-of-the-mill file sharers. The Canadian recording industry itself is being accused of massive copyright infringement, and the list of miffed artists just keeps getting longer.


As University of Ottawa law professor Michael Geist pointed out on his blog, the issue stems from a change to the law in the 1980s that eventually produced something known as the "pending list." Essentially, record companies no longer had to get a compulsory license every time they wanted to use a song for, say, a compilation album. Instead, they went ahead and used the song without waiting for authorization or making payment, adding the song to a list of music that is pending authorization and payment. If you're questioning whether you read that right, that basically means the record industries could use songs as long as they pinky swore they would get authorization and pay the artist for it eventually.

Over the years, the size of the pending list has grown dramatically, now containing over 300,000 songs. From Beyonce to Bruce Springsteen, the artists waiting for payment are far from obscure, as thousands of Canadian and foreign artists have seen their copyrights used without permission and payment.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/12/artists-lawsuit-major-record-labels-are-the-real-pirates.ars
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4596/135/

Thoughts?
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#2
This should be interesting. Hopefully the file sharers won't feel the backlash from a money-desperate record industry if this comes to pass.
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#3
lol idiots, somebody will notice a hickup in a law if u sidestep it
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#8
This is why I don't buy CD's. It just gives money to these crooks.
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#10
Read about it yesterday on Torrentfreak (great torrent/copyright related news blog btw) and heartily lol'd myself silly.
#11
Quote by dustyboy316
This is why I don't buy CD's. It just gives money to these crooks.


So you download it instead, which obviously helps out the artists greatly
#12
Gives me more reason to illegally download. Do I really want to support this company? I love Beyonce, I don't want her CD revenues to help out this company at all.

Quote by ClaptonWannabe
So you download it instead, which obviously helps out the artists greatly


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/illegal-downloaders-spend-the-most-on-music-says-poll-1812776.html

And artists get more from t-shirt sells and merch on tours than they do with CD sells. In fact, I encourage people to illegally download my band's CD as long as they show other people.
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Last edited by brandon369852 at Dec 8, 2009,
#15
Quote by ChucklesMginty
His point it's not helping the artists either way.
Not greatly anyway.


It certainly doesn't help the artists to be dropped off their label because of no CD sales...
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#16
Quote by Oddsbodkins
It certainly doesn't help the artists to be dropped off their label because of no CD sales...


The record company can't nullify a record contract if their record sells aren't up to par. They still have to keep them, and the artists are still making money off shirts and merch.
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#17
Quote by brandon369852
Gives me more reason to illegally download. Do I really want to support this company? I love Beyonce, I don't want her CD revenues to help out this company at all.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/illegal-downloaders-spend-the-most-on-music-says-poll-1812776.html

And artists get more from t-shirt sells and merch on tours than they do with CD sells. In fact, I encourage people to illegally download my band's CD as long as they show other people.


LMAO. Complete shite. T-shirts sell so the actual music doesn't matter. Holy hell.
#18
Quote by brandon369852
The record company can't nullify a record contract if their record sells aren't up to par. They still have to keep them, and the artists are still making money off shirts and merch.

They can choose to not renew the contract fool.
#19
Quote by brandon369852
The record company can't nullify a record contract if their record sells aren't up to par. They still have to keep them, and the artists are still making money off shirts and merch.


Sure, but they don't have to give them a new one after the current one is done.
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#20
Quote by ClaptonWannabe
So you download it instead, which obviously helps out the artists greatly


Well I do attend many shows, and I buy merchandise every time I go, so that helps.
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#21
Quote by ClaptonWannabe
LMAO. Complete shite. T-shirts sell so the actual music doesn't matter. Holy hell.


Have you never been to a show? I don't buy merch if the music sucks. I will buy a shirt, however if the music does not suck. I'm sure most people follow suit except for the scene hot topic kids who think the shirts look cool. Either way, artists are still getting the money.

Quote by someone
Sure, but they don't have to give them a new one after the current one is done.


Good, then they can self release a CD and book a tour themselves. DIY ftw.
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#22
Quote by dustyboy316
Well I do attend many shows, and I buy merchandise every time I go, so that helps.

Bands aren't poor in the first place. And smaller bands that actually need help are typically not the victims of downloading in the same way someone like Bob Dylan is...
#23
Quote by brandon369852

Good, then they can self release a CD and book a tour themselves. DIY ftw.


Yeah, because DIY has such a good success rate.
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#24
Quote by ClaptonWannabe
So you download it instead, which obviously helps out the artists greatly

Going to gigs, buying merch gives FAR more revenue than those 2 cents per CD sold.
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#25
Quote by Oddsbodkins
Yeah, because DIY has such a good success rate.


I'd say it does if the music is good.
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#26
It always makes me laugh how so called musicians justify stealing from musicians.

You buy a t-shirt therefore stealing the music is alright?

I bet when you buy a game you steal a new console because the profit margin on those is lower

Last edited by ClaptonWannabe at Dec 8, 2009,
#27
File sharing DOES damage the bands. If people download it instead of buying the CDs, the labels interpret this as bad sales and just drop the band. Half the time they're still in an exclusive contract and are not getting any options to recoup the advance that the label gave them.

Also, the amount that the band will get from sales (assuming they're actually the songwriter) tends to be 8.5%, from the MCPS. Not the label.
Last edited by sadistic_monkey at Dec 8, 2009,
#28
Quote by ClaptonWannabe

I bet when you buy a game you steal a new console because the profit margin on those is lower



No, because it's harder to steal a whole console. They have them behind glass and only the workers have the key to them. Music, you can either download from someone's computer, burn the music onto a CD(you're telling me you've never made a mixed tape for someone, thief?), put someone's ipod onto your computer. It's a lot easier to "steal" those 2 cents from the artists.

I would think it's better for the music to get out there and people know of you so when you do go on tour, people will buy shit that actually makes a profit.
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#29
Quote by ClaptonWannabe
It always makes me laugh how so called musicians justify stealing from musicians.

You buy a t-shirt therefore stealing the music is alright?

I bet when you buy a game you steal a new console because the profit margin on those is lower


Well, your comparison sucks.
How come you're always the buzzkill in every thread you post in?
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#30
Quote by Dawnwalker
Well, your comparison sucks.
How come you're always the buzzkill in every thread you post in?



if the buzz is stealing from hardworking musicians then i say kill it


buying a t-shirt doesnt make the music free just like buying the music doesnt make the t-shirts free
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#31
Quote by captaincrunk
Bands aren't poor in the first place. And smaller bands that actually need help are typically not the victims of downloading in the same way someone like Bob Dylan is...




Yeah, thanks to all those downloaders he won't be able to afford a 4th house.

Seriously, I download music and also buy music, and go to shows. If I only like 1 or 2 songs off an album, or the album is out of print and I can't find it anywhere online, then I'll download it. And let's not even get started on how difficult it is to find the artists I listen to in an HMV or Target. Most of the artists in those stores are already making enough anyways. Sorry, but I don't think anyone should be making millions of dollars off of something like music, unless you're Mozart.

Besides, DIY has always been the way to go, in fact a lot of bands start their own record labels, and don't screw over other bands on them as often (if it all) because they know how it feels:

deathwishinc.com

Not to mention most bands just making enough off their music to get by, or bands even smaller, advocate downloading there albums and spreading them around to get more exposure.
Last edited by technicolour at Dec 8, 2009,
#32
Quote by brandon369852
Have you never been to a show? I don't buy merch if the music sucks. I will buy a shirt, however if the music does not suck.

Shitty CDs don't get sold either.
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#33
Quote by Dawnwalker
Shitty CDs don't get sold either.


well...a...depends on how you define "shitty"
#34
Quote by Dawnwalker
Shitty CDs don't get sold either.


Point? If it's shit, I won't buy it. If it doesn't suck, and they're on tour, I'll buy their CD so they can make it to the next city, along with a tshirt. I'm not going to buy it through the internet because it doesn't help them directly with touring.
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#35
Who am i to decide that someones music is 'worth' more than someone elses ? Technically if a band sells 1million CDs it dosn't mean a thing because music is subjective. It's all as good as anything else yet an unpopular band might sell 0 CDs at all.

Technically the only fair system would be to torrent it all because your opinion on a song being good or bad shouldn't mean one band does well and another dosn't. Make music legal.
#36
Quote by ClaptonWannabe
It always makes me laugh how so called musicians justify stealing from musicians.

You buy a t-shirt therefore stealing the music is alright?


I'ts not stealing, it's free promotion, I don't make music for money anyway (and I hold little respect for people who do) I make music so people can listen to it, and filesharing greatly furthers that aim.
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#37
Quote by ClaptonWannabe
It always makes me laugh how so called musicians justify stealing from musicians.

You buy a t-shirt therefore stealing the music is alright?

I bet when you buy a game you steal a new console because the profit margin on those is lower


whats your problem these days man? i see you every hour it seems in a new thread shitting all over everyone, lay off man.
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#38
Quote by poopsmith666
whats your problem these days man? i see you every hour it seems in a new thread shitting all over everyone, lay off man.


When you're an asshole, people believe you more, even if you have no clue what you're talking about.
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#39
Quote by poopsmith666
whats your problem these days man? i see you every hour it seems in a new thread shitting all over everyone, lay off man.


I'm not allowed to disagree?

Be quiet.

@ Kid Thorazine;

1. 'Free promotion' - my arse. They spend hundreds of hours writing, recording and post processing songs. It's not something knocked up in 10 minutes. It isn't 'free' at all.

2. 'I have little respect for those who do' - I have little respect for people who sit in their bedroom saying that people who work hard to earn money and fund their music (I'm looking forward to your next tour. Good luck paying the millions and millions of dollars involved).

Edit: Lmao @ me 'not knowing what I'm talking about.' You're stealing. There's no two ways about it. If you're going to do it then whatever, but don't try and justify it with some bullshit excuses such as 'well I buy the T-shirts...'
Last edited by ClaptonWannabe at Dec 8, 2009,
#40
a label won't drop a band if their CD sales suck but their live shows and merch sell like hot dogs at a fat girl fair. Do you think these corporations don't look into their future? Of course they have back-up plans and adapt to the situation better than we think. They're fully prepared and know exactly where the music industry is going, in-fact they pay people to for-see this type of shit.

DIY has started many big bands before and will continue to do so if the members of the band put their heart, soul, and everything they have into to. Most of the people who work in these companies don't know the first two things about music, its all business. All they see is $'s and %'s.

I'm really proud of the people who give away their albums for free - because to them music is a message, not a garnishing tool for money. If the message is well accepted then people will buy stuff to support the message (clothes, patches, etc.) and come see the message come to life at shows.

I'm not saying all music corporations are evil. Of coarse there are the good and kind souls at some labels that understand what it's like - but ironically enough these people were or are musicians at some point.
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