#1
Hi. I'm new to electric guitar scene and am looking forward to buy my very first electric guitar. Luckily, my friend has a year old Epiphone Les Paul Black Beauty which he will let me have for $450. (Is this a good deal btw?) But while searching on the internet, I realized that epiphone had produced Elitist Les Paul Custom in the past. Assuming that I find a music store which has the elitist custom in stock for around 1000 (The price was around 1000 right..?), would buying the elitist custom benefit me more ? i mean overall, in terms of quality, resale value, etc. If I have the choice, which guitar should I opt for ? A used black beauty in excellent condition $450 or an elitist les paul custom for $1000+ ? Please help me out..Your inputs are very much appreciated. Thank you.

P.S. How does the Riviera P93 "Limited Edition" hold up against these two ? I really like the design and the price..although I'm not too sure whether it's actually limited or not..lol
#2
Yes, it can. The wood is far higher quality, the other components are far better, the build quality is better.
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#3
get teh elitist if possible, but i assume that they are hard to find. As an elitist owner, i can tell you that they are miles ahead of any epiphone and any lower quality gibson
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#4
Buy a standard for $450, sell it later for $300, lose $150

Buy an elitist for $1000, sell it later for $750, lose $250.


Buy a Chevy Cobalt for $15,000, sell it for $8,000, lose $7,000

Buy a Chevy Corvette for $60,000, sell it for $50,000, lose $10,000


Spending more =/= saving more when you sell (higher resale value)

I learnt that the hard way with my Fernandes. It's nearly brand new and I can't even sell it for $200 less than I paid. I took it to a store and the guy told me because it wasn't Gibson or Fender it's not even worth half of what I paid.

SO thats my take on resale value....


On-topic, how old is the Black Beauty? If it's pretty old, and Korean made, I'd say try and get him to give it to you for $400.

Sure elitists are cool, but if you get bored of it, mabe decide you wan't Gibson, or LPs aren't your thing, and you want to sell, good luck getting rid of it at a fair price.
#5
Tedward, you're contradicting yourself. The way you typed it out, the Corvette has better resale value because it loses about 17% of its value and the cobalt loses about 47%...

And yes, of course a lesser-known brand is going to have a lower resale value. They aren't as high in demand.
Last edited by Pac_man0123 at Dec 8, 2009,
#6
Quote by Tedward
Buy a standard for $450, sell it later for $300, lose $150

Buy an elitist for $1000, sell it later for $750, lose $250.


Buy a Chevy Cobalt for $15,000, sell it for $8,000, lose $7,000

Buy a Chevy Corvette for $60,000, sell it for $50,000, lose $10,000


Spending more =/= saving more when you sell (higher resale value)

I learnt that the hard way with my Fernandes. It's nearly brand new and I can't even sell it for $200 less than I paid. I took it to a store and the guy told me because it wasn't Gibson or Fender it's not even worth half of what I paid.

SO thats my take on resale value....


On-topic, how old is the Black Beauty? If it's pretty old, and Korean made, I'd say try and get him to give it to you for $400.

Sure elitists are cool, but if you get bored of it, mabe decide you wan't Gibson, or LPs aren't your thing, and you want to sell, good luck getting rid of it at a fair price.


So you would recommend buying the standard right. .? By the way I believe my friend's standard black beauty is only a year old, so would be made in china..tho i haven't confirmed yet. To those who say that the elitist is way beyond any other epiphones, would you say that there is indeed decent investment value in purchasing the elitist models ?
Thank you all for your lightning fast response ! But I'm still nowhere...Is the quality difference THAT big ?
#9
The Epi Black Beauty (I assume you ave the name right - it's the three pickup model) isn't very good. The third pickup actually limits your tone options and hurts sustain plus it's just another thing to potentially go wrong.

Now, the Elitists were incredible instruments. For the money they couldn't really be beaten (other than possibly by some of the Tokai models which were for all intents and purposes exactly the same). A lot of people who have played Elitists will tell you they were better than the low-end Gibsons and some were even better than the Standard Gibsons, and those people aren't lying - the Elitists were that good. Basically with them you're getting a Gibson Les Paul Standard but with a poly finish rather than nitro and a different headstock. Given the price, they were amazing guitars.

However, Epiphone haven't made any Elitist Les Pauls for well over a year now (in fact by my count it's coming up to almost two years). So any 'new' Elitists you see in shops will have been sat there for a couple of years being abused in-store and if they've not been sold already there's probably a good reason why - any Elitist in good working condition sells very quickly.
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#10
So it is apparent that the Elitist custom has exceptional quality compared to other epis, or even gibsons..does that mean buying the guitar, elitist custom, would actually have some investment value as well ? or is the resale low just for the fact that it is still an "epiphone" despite the exceptional quality..Thank you all for you help !
#11
I would rather buy a gibson LP studio instead of an elitist...
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#12
Quote by costumenational
So it is apparent that the Elitist custom has exceptional quality compared to other epis, or even gibsons..does that mean buying the guitar, elitist custom, would actually have some investment value as well ? or is the resale low just for the fact that it is still an "epiphone" despite the exceptional quality..Thank you all for you help !
It's an Epiphone and for all intents and purposes, it's a players guitar. As far as buying a guitar in that price range goes, you're not looking to make an investment. Don't expect it to go up in value or anything, the resale will be approximately the same as you'd expect for any $1000 guitar of good quality.

I would personally buy it over the normal Epiphone. I really don't htink all that highly of Chinese Epiphones, also depending on the model (black beauty can mean a ton of different things), it may or may not suit you. If it's a 3 pickup model you may or may not like it. The middle pickup often gets in the way of picking, and also, the middle position is kind of an acquired taste. It's a cool sound and everything but I wouldn't want it as my main guitar.
Last edited by al112987 at Dec 9, 2009,
#13
Quote by al112987
It's an Epiphone and for all intents and purposes, it's a players guitar. As far as buying a guitar in that price range goes, you're not looking to make an investment. Don't expect it to go up in value or anything, the resale will be approximately the same as you'd expect for any $1000 guitar of good quality.

I would personally buy it over the normal Epiphone. I really don't htink all that highly of Chinese Epiphones, also depending on the model (black beauty can mean a ton of different things), it may or may not suit you. If it's a 3 pickup model you may or may not like it. The middle pickup often gets in the way of picking, and also, the middle position is kind of an acquired taste. It's a cool sound and everything but I wouldn't want it as my main guitar.


Thank you ! That helped me out a lot in making a decision. I don't think highly of Chinese Epiphones (or Chinese anything in fact..lol), but since an Epi will always be an Epi, I guess I won't spend the extra $600 in buying the elitist..I think I'll just stick with buying the 3 pickup blackbeauty off of my friend..Is a 1 year old black beauty in good condition for $450 a decent deal ?
Again, thank you all in helping me out !
#14
The Elitist guitars are completely worth the money. That isn't to say the Standard Epi's aren't worth it, but the Elitist guitars are somewhat amazing.
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#15
Quote by costumenational
Thank you ! That helped me out a lot in making a decision. I don't think highly of Chinese Epiphones (or Chinese anything in fact..lol), but since an Epi will always be an Epi, I guess I won't spend the extra $600 in buying the elitist..I think I'll just stick with buying the 3 pickup blackbeauty off of my friend..Is a 1 year old black beauty in good condition for $450 a decent deal ?
Again, thank you all in helping me out !
That is not exactly what I said, I said that the Elitist is a player's guitar, not an investment guitar so I would not worry about this in terms of making a financial investment beyond anything other than getting a solid guitar. It's not going to grow in value or anything (but neither will a $1000 Gibson). In that regard, I would get the Elitist over the normal Epiphone 10 times out of 10. It will hold it's value like any other $1000 guitar and you can expect to sell it for $600-$700 afterwards, but don't expect it to grow in value or anything, but whether it's an Epiphone or Gibson or Fender, don't expect a purchase of anything in that $1000 range to be anything outside of buying a solid guitar.

It's really simple, yes the Elitist is good enough that it's worht the price tag over the normal Epiphone. To answer your question, if you don't like the fact that you'll have to pay more to get the better guitar, then get the normal Epi for cheaper.
#16
Quote by al112987
That is not exactly what I said, I said that the Elitist is a player's guitar, not an investment guitar so I would not worry about this in terms of making a financial investment beyond anything other than getting a solid guitar. It's not going to grow in value or anything (but neither will a $1000 Gibson). In that regard, I would get the Elitist over the normal Epiphone 10 times out of 10. It will hold it's value like any other $1000 guitar and you can expect to sell it for $600-$700 afterwards, but don't expect it to grow in value or anything, but whether it's an Epiphone or Gibson or Fender, don't expect a purchase of anything in that $1000 range to be anything outside of buying a solid guitar.

It's really simple, yes the Elitist is good enough that it's worht the price tag over the normal Epiphone. To answer your question, if you don't like the fact that you'll have to pay more to get the better guitar, then get the normal Epi for cheaper.

I didn't mean to say that the elitist was the same quality as the standard epi..I just made the decision to buy the standard because of my financial circumstances..If I had the money, I'd buy the elitist for sure, but I just had to weigh the pros and cons according to my budget. Thanks anyways and sorry if I caused any misunderstanding !
#17
I finally got to play an Elitist a couple months back. It played just as good as most Gibson's I've played, and better then any other epiphone. They are worth every penny.
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#18
Quote by Tatsumaru
I would rather buy a gibson LP studio instead of an elitist...
Then you're a ****ing idiot, to put it quite simply. There is not one single reason to buy a LP Studio over an Elitist LP and in fact there are many reasons not to.
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#19
Quote by Captain Insano
The Elitist is miles ahead of every other Epi, and about on par with lower end Gibsons.

It's better than most gibsons not just teh lower end.
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edge11
that was an epic win
best thing ive read all day

[feel free to sig this statement]

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#20
Quote by costumenational
Thank you ! That helped me out a lot in making a decision. I don't think highly of Chinese Epiphones (or Chinese anything in fact..lol), but since an Epi will always be an Epi, I guess I won't spend the extra $600 in buying the elitist..I think I'll just stick with buying the 3 pickup blackbeauty off of my friend..Is a 1 year old black beauty in good condition for $450 a decent deal ?
Again, thank you all in helping me out !

Your fist mistake is buying a guitar as an investment and not as a player.
Quote by envoykrawkwar7


edge11
that was an epic win
best thing ive read all day

[feel free to sig this statement]

Gear:
Esp Ltd Ninja 600
Esp Ltd F-50
les paul elite
5watt jcm800 clone
Roland jc-55
Crate V33
Jca20H
Ibanez tubescreamer ts9
Keeley ds-1
#21
Quote by edge11
It's better than most gibsons not just teh lower end.
not really, but ok.
#22
Quote by MrFlibble
Then you're a ****ing idiot, to put it quite simply. There is not one single reason to buy a LP Studio over an Elitist LP and in fact there are many reasons not to.

wow dude chill, everyone is entitled to their opinions
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#23
Quote by costumenational
So you would recommend buying the standard right. .? By the way I believe my friend's standard black beauty is only a year old, so would be made in china..tho i haven't confirmed yet. To those who say that the elitist is way beyond any other epiphones, would you say that there is indeed decent investment value in purchasing the elitist models ?
Thank you all for your lightning fast response ! But I'm still nowhere...Is the quality difference THAT big ?


I own an Epi Les Paul Standard that i switched the pickups out in, and even before the switch, it was a great guitar. If the Guitar he has is truly only 1 year old then I would go for it. You could buy it and swap the pickups and still pay less than the Elitlist. After my pickup swap, the Guitar Center tech told me that he has a new respect for Epiphone (he never liked them before) because mine came with CTS pots, a good quality switch (don't know the brand), and Grover tuners. He said he had people coming up to him while he was testing it asking what kind of Gibson it was and he blew them away when he told them it was an Epiphone. I have no experience with the Elitlist, but the only difference between the black beauty and the standard(my guitar) are visuals (paint, harware) and the middle pickup, so if i were you i would go for the Black Beauty and swap out the pickups. That will increase the resale value and improve the sound. $450 is one hell of a price for a black beauty if it's in the condition you say. My pickup swap cost only $250 (including the pickups and labor and a complete guitar setup), so $450+$250=$700 when the elitlist is $1000 and the price of a brand new black beauty is $729 new, so you are still getting an amazing price either way. That sounds like the best buy to me, although you are gonna have to get 3 pickups for the black beauty so it might be a little more, but it also depends on what pickups you get.
#24
you realize that there is more that goes into the guitar than pickups and switches right?

And no, switching out the pickups will not increase value (unless you are throwing in a set of PAFs, but then it'd be more that someone is buying the PAFs with the Epiphone as a throw in)

An elitist is a superior guitar to a normal Epiphone in every regard. CTS pots (which I'm aware are only being used on the tribute and '59 models), good switches, tuners, pikcups, those are all add ons that can be changed on any guitar, what can't be changed is the wood and construction, and those are what determines, when you have the same pickups and same electronics in two guitars, which one sounds lively, and 3 dimensional, and which one sounds average and flat.
Last edited by al112987 at Dec 9, 2009,
#25
Quote by edge11
It's better than most gibsons not just teh lower end.


Thats just rediculous....


Too many people focus on the negative side of gibsons quality control and forget about the possibility that u could get an gibson LP studio that will play like a real LP standard ...

And yet they do the complete opposite with epiphone ....
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#26
Quote by Tatsumaru
Thats just rediculous....


Too many people focus on the negative side of gibsons quality control and forget about the possibility that u could get an gibson LP studio that will play like a real LP standard ...

And yet they do the complete opposite with epiphone ....

They may just play like them but they dont sound like them. The elitists sound and play not only like a gibson standard but an r8. Maybe it's because they use the same wood/construction methods. Also most used elitists are cheaper than a used studio, so why not buy something better for cheaper. At the end of the day though buy what YOU like, more elitists for me to have.
Quote by envoykrawkwar7


edge11
that was an epic win
best thing ive read all day

[feel free to sig this statement]

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Esp Ltd F-50
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#27
Quote by edge11
They may just play like them but they dont sound like them. The elitists sound and play not only like a gibson standard but an r8. Maybe it's because they use the same wood/construction methods. Also most used elitists are cheaper than a used studio, so why not buy something better for cheaper. At the end of the day though buy what YOU like, more elitists for me to have.
They don't use the same kind of wood or construction method. Seeing that R8s are made of 1 piece Honduran mahogany and elitists are made of 2 piece African mahogany, R8s use eastern soft maple while elitists use rock maple tops, and R8s are built in Gibson's custom shop whilst elitists are made on CNCs.

And no, they don't sound the same as an R8 or play the same as an R8.
Last edited by al112987 at Dec 9, 2009,
#30
Quote by GuernZila
tthe epi elitist head stock is the gibson one fliped upside down


Awesome ...

Why did u dig up this thread though ....
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#31
if you're looking for quality then get the elitist. goin for looks get the cheaper epi. look if you;re player then it doesnt take a genius to figure out which one to go for. if youve got the money then get something quality rather than regretting getting a cheaper model