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#1
hey guys so im looking at getting a les paul, i play high gain in drop c usually so i will probs swap in emg 81/85 into the guitar. just a few questions

are the high end tokais comparable to a midrange-low end gibson?

what are they like for dropped tuning?

is the neck speedy?

your help would be much appreciated
cheers
#2
well the neck might be speedy, but personally i'd get a guitar with a double cut out if you want speedy, for shredding high fretts and stuff.. unless you can reach far i'd suggest a double cutt-away
#3
I think 'low end' Gibsons are a bargain. Since they're (mostly) made by hand, a big chunk of the guitar's cost is stuff like finish and inlay that takes forever. Aside from the pickups, which you're changing anyway, the Les Paul Studio Faded is sonically identical to the much more expensive Standard model.

Plus you can get a ugly Studio Faded used for $400-$700. Hard to argue, for an American instrument. I got one myself and refinished it. Now it's my main guitar, even over my more expensive Gibsons.
#4
Quote by MetalGuitarest
well the neck might be speedy, but personally i'd get a guitar with a double cut out if you want speedy, for shredding high fretts and stuff.. unless you can reach far i'd suggest a double cutt-away

The second cutaway doesn't help. It makes it LOOK faster, but the missing wood isn't from where your hand would be going anyway. I direct you to Randy Rhoads, Zakk Wylde, Buckethead, Frank Zappa, and Al di Meola.

I sanded down the heel on that LPSF I refinished, and the upper frets are more accessible than on any other guitar I've played, Flying Vs and neck-throughs aside.
Last edited by jean_genie at Dec 11, 2009,
#5
so gibson all the way you reckon??

ive heard alot of mixed opinions about recent gibsons
#7
Quote by skullthrash
so gibson all the way you reckon??

ive heard alot of mixed opinions about recent gibsons

I'm a Gibson nut, so I'm a little biased. But if nothing else, any guitar made in the US holds its value very well. If you buy a Gibson used, and keep the stock pickups, you're going to get 50%-90% of your money back if you sell it, no matter how beat up it gets. Well, assuming it still plays okay.

You don't see people paying top dollar, or even middle dollar, for used Tokais, Samicks, or Epiphones. In my book, that means a lot.

EDIT: I mean keep the pickups handy. To put back in later. In the meantime, do whatever you want.
Last edited by jean_genie at Dec 11, 2009,
#8
iv heard that tokai's are better and they get great review's but iv never played one.
#9
I'd just save up and get a Gibson. Sure it'll cost quite a bit more, but you'll also probably keep it forever. A Tokai or Burny, even though they're very good copies, won't give you that reverential feeling you get from a good Gibson.
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#10
A high end Tokai will be better than a mid end Gibson. It's as simple as that. They do tend to hold their value quite well too, if that sort of things bothers you.
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#11
The cheapest Gibsons are crap (EG. The Melody Maker), it reminded me of a bottom of the range BC Rich copy.... That was broken....

However, the Studio stuff is pretty good and the faded stuff has got, literally, cheap paint, while it is as good as its £400 more expensive counterpart. So, you do the maths.
#12
A high end Tokai is better than any production Gibson IMO. I have an ls125 SEB, and it runs circles around every standard, classic and VOS model I've played. I'm not one to plug my own gear either. If I don't like a guitar, I sell it and get something else. My Tokai is a keeper for life, and sits well next to my Suhr modern. I don't like the stigma that they must be inferior because they're cheaper and made in Japan, although I admit the Korean models aren't amazing. If you have a decent budget, you'll get a lot of guitar for the money.
Also, there's a nice satisfaction when you go to a jam night, and everyone's asking what your guitar is because it sounded amazing, and are shocked to find out that it's not 'the real thing'.

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#13
have any of you guys had experience with death metal style playing on them?

i really need a guitar that can just handle the low tunings and still give me the brightness thats required,

im considering this one at the moment, and throwing in emg 81/85

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tokai-Love-Rock-LS150K-Electric-Guitar-KOA-Wood-Finish_W0QQitemZ400090746463QQihZ027QQcategoryZ112670QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26ps%3D6
#14
great guitars, only thing that bother me about Japanese les paul copies is the binding on the fretboard which is just never done right.
#15
Quote by skullthrash
have any of you guys had experience with death metal style playing on them?


Yes, the Les Paul shape in general is good until you get to a solo.... Man they aren't made for "death metal style" solos.

Get the Gibson, unless you've tried the Tokai, go for the Gibson.
#16
Quote by al112987
great guitars, only thing that bother me about Japanese les paul copies is the binding on the fretboard which is just never done right.


Are you refering to Gibsons nibs on the fret ends? I don't think anyone else does this but them.
Moving on.....
#17
yep, I am in fact talking about the nibs, it's such a small thing, but it always bothers me that no other les paul copy does them.
#18
Buy a guitar to play it, don't worry about selling it later. And the name on the headstock shouldn't affect your decision.
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#19
Quote by McLeod
Buy a guitar to play it, don't worry about selling it later. And the name on the headstock shouldn't affect your decision.


When you're investing the kind of money a high end MIJ Tokai or Gibson Les Paul goes for you don't do it lightly.
Moving on.....
#20
I didn't mean to to do it lightly. But, why buy a Gibson if the Tokai plays just as good if not better? Or even the other way around.
(()____(Main Rig)____())>

Carvin CS4 Goldtop
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Carvin SC90
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Peavey 6505
Carvin v3m
Carvin 2x12
Spider Valve Cab
Plenty of Pedals.
#21
Quote by jean_genie
The second cutaway doesn't help. It makes it LOOK faster, but the missing wood isn't from where your hand would be going anyway. I direct you to Randy Rhoads, Zakk Wylde, Buckethead, Frank Zappa, and Al di Meola.

I sanded down the heel on that LPSF I refinished, and the upper frets are more accessible than on any other guitar I've played, Flying Vs and neck-throughs aside.


uh yes it does help,. it is MUCH easier on my Sg than my les paul when playin on the higher frets. it doesn't matter how many artist you list that uses a les paul. none of them is saying the les paul has the same upper fret advantage as the sg or any other double cutaway guitars.
#22
Quote by Banana Wedgie
The cheapest Gibsons are crap (EG. The Melody Maker), it reminded me of a bottom of the range BC Rich copy.... That was broken....

However, the Studio stuff is pretty good and the faded stuff has got, literally, cheap paint, while it is as good as its £400 more expensive counterpart. So, you do the maths.
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Studio-Faded.aspx

"... even through its faded, thin lacquer coat that protects it from the elements. As with all Gibson finishes, the finishes on the Les Paul Studio Faded are applied by hand in a process that demands several coats and many hours. Unlike a lot of our competitors, who settle for a polyurethane finish, Gibson opts for the nitrocellulose lacquer finish because it encourages the natural vibration of the instrument for a purer tone. ..."

#23
Quote by McLeod
I didn't mean to to do it lightly. But, why buy a Gibson if the Tokai plays just as good if not better? Or even the other way around.
because believe it or not, resale value is one of those things that should matter when you're thinking about buying a guitar that cost ~@2000.
#24
Why not go with a more "metal" oriented guitar?

Esp or Ltd make a very good les paul shaped guitar that is suited VERY well for metal.

you can find them for about 400-600$ used.

they are the Ec-1000 I believe
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#25
Quote by williamdllr
Why not go with a more "metal" oriented guitar?

Esp or Ltd make a very good les paul shaped guitar that is suited VERY well for metal.

you can find them for about 400-600$ used.

they are the Ec-1000 I believe For example, the LTD SC-607B ... active EMGs and superior fret access.
*fixed*





#26
^ VERYYYY good guitar but I believe he is after a les paul body shape :/
Guitars:

1998 Squier Affinity Stratocaster

Amps:

Peavey Valve king 112

Money is just paper, but it affects people like poetry.
#28
ohhh most definately.

But i guess I kind of assumes since both guitars he has mentioned are lkes paul shaped.

and the LTD EC-1000's have EMG 81 and EMG 60
Guitars:

1998 Squier Affinity Stratocaster

Amps:

Peavey Valve king 112

Money is just paper, but it affects people like poetry.
#29
Quote by Ippon
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-Studio-Faded.aspx

"... even through its faded, thin lacquer coat that protects it from the elements. As with all Gibson finishes, the finishes on the Les Paul Studio Faded are applied by hand in a process that demands several coats and many hours. Unlike a lot of our competitors, who settle for a polyurethane finish, Gibson opts for the nitrocellulose lacquer finish because it encourages the natural vibration of the instrument for a purer tone. ..."


highly doubt you'll hear differences when doing a side by side comparison. the lacquer finish is actually a hassle consider they get sticky after couple hours of playing. more than once i have to wipe the neck of my sg at studios.

not to mention lacquer finish are softer and more easy to get be dented. sure it will age well with the guitar but for me with all the cons it's not worth it
Last edited by kckyle at Dec 11, 2009,
#30
Quote by kckyle
highly doubt you'll hear differences when doing a side by side comparison. the lacquer finish is actually a hassle consider they get sticky after couple hours of playing. more than once i have to wipe the neck of my sg at studios.

not to mention lacquer finish are softer and more easy to get be dented. sure it will age well with the guitar but for me with all the cons it's not worth it
I was addressing:
Quote by Banana Wedgie
... the faded stuff has got, literally, cheap paint, ....
with the Nitro quote from Gibson.

#32
Quote by al112987
because believe it or not, resale value is one of those things that should matter when you're thinking about buying a guitar that cost ~@2000.
My argument is if the guitar is worth a damn, why are you factoring in selling it before you've even bought it?

This is - paraphrasing - a conversation that occured between myself and one particular dealer when I was shopping for my CS '59 reissue LP:
Him: "See the trick is to find one with a really well matched top with clear grain. Try and get it in the cherry burst finish. Those keep their value better and are easier to sell on."
Me: "**** that, I'm buying this to play."


If I'm forking out £800+ on any guitar (let alone several thousand), I'm going to be playing it senseless. It needs to play right, it needs to have the features I want, preferably it has to look pretty and it's got to have tone pouring out its arse. Resale value doesn't factor in to it. I'm never going to drop any amount of money on something if I'll just be selling it again later. Whatever I buy, I use until it breaks whereon I either fix it or bin it and buy a new one, depending on the nature of the item. What is the point of buying a guitar - especially an expensive one - if before it's even in your hands you're thinking about flogging it? Balls to that.


There are far too many people who get all het up about vintage this and classic that and history and resale value and all sorts of bollocks. If it plays, sounds and looks how you want, buy it. It's that simple. If anything else is factoring into your decision to or not to purchase, you're doing it wrong.




OP: Yes, a high-end (actually high-end, not 'high-end by the standards of a 14 year old') will be better than a low-end Gibson. Generally it will be on par with a Gibson LP Standard, apart from the difference in finish material, obviously (and whether a nitro or poly finish is better is highly subjective and purely down to your personal preferences). That is whay copy brands exist, so you can get essentually the same thing for less money. If you're happy with that, buy the Tokai. If what you really dream of is a Gibson though, buy the Gibson. That's basically all it boils down to; which, in your heart of hearts, you'll actually be most happy with. There is no technical reason to prefer one over the other.
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#33
Quote by Banana Wedgie
Yes, the Les Paul shape in general is good until you get to a solo.... Man they aren't made for "death metal style" solos.

Get the Gibson, unless you've tried the Tokai, go for the Gibson.


You mean they use guitars for there solos ... I thought they just round around screaming and occaisonally stab the odd crowd member ....
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#34
Quote by MrFlibble
My argument is if the guitar is worth a damn, why are you factoring in selling it before you've even bought it?

This is - paraphrasing - a conversation that occured between myself and one particular dealer when I was shopping for my CS '59 reissue LP:
Him: "See the trick is to find one with a really well matched top with clear grain. Try and get it in the cherry burst finish. Those keep their value better and are easier to sell on."
Me: "**** that, I'm buying this to play."
You factor in the possiblity that you may sell it when life outside of guitar happens. Obviously you're buying it for the purpose of selling it later, no one who has any brains whatsoever is going to treat a guitar as some sort of financial investment (unless you are buying a vintage guitar or a truly limited edition guitar that people will actually want in the future) because it;s going to depreciate in value the second you walk out the door.

Instead, what happens is, you have bills to pay, and you realize that you can't justify keeping a $5000 guitar when you need to pay the mortgage. Even Gary Moore had to sell his Peter Green burst due to financial issues when he had to miss a few tour dates. Shit happens, you prepare for it. I had to sell a guitar two years ago when I had to pay $400 worth of textbooks.
Last edited by al112987 at Dec 12, 2009,
#35
i think u should get an ESP Eclipse or a ESP LTS EC-1000 instead. The neck is faster than those two and they already come with EMGs.
#36
Quote by holycow
i think u should get an ESP Eclipse or a ESP LTS EC-1000 instead. The neck is faster than those two and they already come with EMGs.

This, It's pretty much THE les paul style guitar for metal. Of course it will do much more and you can swap out the pickups if you dont like EMG's
#37
ive played an ec1000 and eclipse standards, but the woods they use are much different and dont have the beautiful tone a gibson/ tokai style.

im considering an esp nt.

selling my guitar is no consideration, if i like a guitar enough to buy it ( especially a pricey one)
im ****in keepin it mayte
#38
Quote by al112987
stuff
Well my answer for this is the same I've been saying for the last year to anyone bitching about the recession: learn to live within your means and you'll never have any problems like this. If you're in the sort of position where you'd be having to choose between keeping your guitar or paying bills, and this is a situation likely enough to crop up that you are taking it into consideration when you purchase the guitar, you shouldn't be buying that guitar in the first place.

Be responsible with your money, buy things when you can actually afford them and not just when your credit card company tells you you can risk it, and there's no problem.
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#39
Quote by MrFlibble
Well my answer for this is the same I've been saying for the last year to anyone bitching about the recession: learn to live within your means and you'll never have any problems like this. If you're in the sort of position where you'd be having to choose between keeping your guitar or paying bills, and this is a situation likely enough to crop up that you are taking it into consideration when you purchase the guitar, you shouldn't be buying that guitar in the first place.

Be responsible with your money, buy things when you can actually afford them and not just when your credit card company tells you you can risk it, and there's no problem.


Lots of things can easily happen though mate. Losing a job, parents falling ill, accidentally impregnating the local skank or discovering that buying girls gifts causes them to get naked for you.

All things to consider when buying a guitar.
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#40
Quote by Kurapica
Lots of things can easily happen though mate. Losing a job, parents falling ill, accidentally impregnating the local skank or discovering that buying girls gifts causes them to get naked for you.

All things to consider when buying a guitar.
Thank **** none of these do, ever have or ever will apply to me.

I appreciate shit happens, but that's why it's a good idea to get an ISA account or savings account to store some money away for those emergencies. This is what I mean by living within your means and actually being able to afford these things.
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