#1
So I'm trying to figure out the composition techniques to writing a good solid hardcore punk song. I've heard four is the magic number. I have plenty of riffs to work off of, but I tend to get stuck, and it just seems repetitive after awhile.
#3
Quote by AeolianWolf
I IV V.

game, set, match.



And what is this suppose to mean???
#6
Quote by AeolianWolf
relax, kid. it's a shot at punk rock.



yeah the first root, the fourth and fifth interval right.....?
#8
a I IV V is the Roman Numeral designation for a chord formula in any given key. These are common moves in Punk as well as Rock and even Blues and Metal.

Im not sure what they mean by 4 being the magic number, unless they are explaining that a rhythmic approach of 4 bars and changing chords per bar, with a driving 8th note or 16th note groove.

To understand a I IV and V you'd need to know the following:

How to correctly spell out the notes in any major scale
How to correctly label the degrees in each major scale as to create the "key" meaning a certain type of chord is built for each note of the major scale, and you'd need to know which ones are major and which ones are minor.

Armed with this knowledge you could then understand what a I IV V is.

It would be very hard to explain it outside this understanding, both for us and for you. For you, you'd have the chord names and have no idea why or how, and for us we'd have to give a lot of examples, knowing full well in the back of our mind that you are only getting some abstract chord pattern which in no way helps You become a better composer, only how to mimic and parrot whats been done 1000 times before.

But to start with Ill give you a I IV V in G

G C and D - Powerchord em to oblivion mate....
#9
Quote by Sean0913
a I IV V is the Roman Numeral designation for a chord formula in any given key. These are common moves in Punk as well as Rock and even Blues and Metal.

Im not sure what they mean by 4 being the magic number, unless they are explaining that a rhythmic approach of 4 bars and changing chords per bar, with a driving 8th note or 16th note groove.

To understand a I IV and V you'd need to know the following:

How to correctly spell out the notes in any major scale
How to correctly label the degrees in each major scale as to create the "key" meaning a certain type of chord is built for each note of the major scale, and you'd need to know which ones are major and which ones are minor.

Armed with this knowledge you could then understand what a I IV V is.

It would be very hard to explain it outside this understanding, both for us and for you. For you, you'd have the chord names and have no idea why or how, and for us we'd have to give a lot of examples, knowing full well in the back of our mind that you are only getting some abstract chord pattern which in no way helps You become a better composer, only how to mimic and parrot whats been done 1000 times before.

But to start with Ill give you a I IV V in G

G C and D - Powerchord em to oblivion mate....


Yeah, I know what you speak of somewhat. Maybe what this person meant of by four is the magic number, was that each riff e.g. verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, verse, etc. was played four times each. So yeah.
#10
A lot of hardcore punk is based on dissonant riffs, or at least my favourite hardcore tunes are. For example, Discharge's "The Nightmare Continues"(as far as i remember) is a I II bIII VII in powerchords, implying harmonic minor and using the dissonant interval of a diminished 4th between the last 2 chords. This music isn't supposed to be pretty, try to imagine exactly what Wolfgang and Ludwig Van WOULDN'T do. Try using chromaticism(playing the inbetween notes) Another important part of hardcore punk is the rhythm. At the beginning you can try by copying the rhythms of other punk bands, but in the end try to create your own interesting rhythms. In this genre, as long as the drums are pounding out a clear 1! 2! 3! 4! you can often get fairly complicated without losing people.

Once you've got your riff, just rape it for a minute and a half and shout over it. =D

Oh and here's a little inspiration if ya need it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr8Ykvr9ToA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akMIt2pnWZI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3NSA1_bq1c these are slightly left-field. They've still got the fast, dissonant riffs but, aside from the emotive lyrics(the Ungovernable Force is gonna drag you out of hiding!) I find them particularly interesting because they experimented with interludes, slower sections and proper structures. I suppose you could view them as almost a metal band.

Have fun!
#11
e|------
B|------
G|--4--
D|--5---
A|--3---
E|------

That kind of (chord?) is used occasionally in punk music.

Listen to Title Fight or Fireworks. Fireworks doesn't even use many power chords.

EDIT: Fireworks isn't hardcore punk, but more of pop punk. Just an example, you could apply it to hardcore punk.
Quote by Zinnie
god placed the fossils in earth to confuse the humans into thinking that earth is older than it actually is, therefore, making men try and think outside the box....

just kidding, there is no god



www.youtube.com/user/andrew12398
Last edited by andrew12398 at Dec 11, 2009,
#12
Play powerchords really fast and when you run out riffs end the song. Doesn't matter if its 10 seconds or 10 minutes. I mean really, it's hardcore punk. This isn't a genre based on song structure.
#13
I'm not sure what the TS means. Hardcore is a bit vague. Some of what I think of as hard core is very simple to the point writing, and yes, it often involves repeating a progression 4 times, 8 times, etc. Usually Major, but you can throw in something off the wall too if you want to. Obviously tempo has a great deal to do with it. Solos are often short to non-existent, and based on blues scales. Try to use what you know about theory to analyze the songs by the bands you're interested in. Look for the things they have in common. It is usually constructed very much like old school R&R, just on steroids.
#15
it took me forever to figure this out myself haha! 1st of all, ahrdcore or post-hardcore? if ur doin plain ol' hardcore, take the germs for an example, they barely knew how to play their instruments when they started lol (or at least according to that rockumentary every hates).

bar chords, lots of distortion, not too many leads, unless u wanna do a silly geetare solo like the 2 notes in the punk song "boredom."

another classic hardcore band to take inspiration from is the cercle jerks. they take pride in writing really really short songs.

drums should be fast. in the germs and cerkle jerks, drums are fast. in the germs, the drums are also...good. in the cerkle jerks, they're just...okay. so if ur in a band, tell ur drummer to learn some punk beats (definitely cerkle jerks beats are classic punk rock beats, and others can be learned from freedrumlessons.com in the punk lessons.) u have to build hardcore songs from the drums up, if you've never done it before this is the best way to start. later when u get better with this kinda thing u can start with guitar.

the bass should be easy for a guitar player to understand. its just the low 4 strings of a guitar, in hardcore punk its almost always the root notes of your chords (if you play an A chord the bass plays the A note), and almost always played with a pick.

the real guitar secret is bar chords and a certain amount of distortion. not enough distortion to be metal, but a fair amount. u want ur guitar to sound weird and almost retarded, u want it to be a parody of itself. so whatever u might want to do to ur guitar...its fair game. until u get too artsy, then ur straying into prog or post-punk or ya know, artsy stuff. oh and use mostly major chords. palm mute in like every song too.

black flag is another band to check out, learn some of their songs. on the more post-hardcore side, there's at the drive-in. i count them as a plain hardcore inspiration because they love original punk stuff, even in the mars volta, they keep the punk mentality. they don't write songs using much theory, idk how much jim ward knows, but i know omar doesn't even know scales or keys or anything about rhythm. u just have to be creative and figure this stuff out on ur own, with true punk and hardcore, theory sort of wastes time. i personally love ****in around with theory, but i play artsy stuff, not a whole lotta punk haha
#16
Quote by TMVATDI
i personally love ****in around with theory, but i play artsy stuff, not a whole lotta punk haha



in what ways do you fudge around with theory?

what do you suggest i should do with or know specifically dealing with theory to understand song writing?
#17
Punk isn't really about complexity so much as crazy lyrics and attitude. Listen to stuff like Minor Threat - not technical or difficult or even necessarily confined to theory, just play fast stuff and bang your head and yell and you should be fine.
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