#1
Hey guys!

Lately I've started to economy pick a lot more often when playing faster solos or general riffs (e.g. Master Of Puppets, Like Light To The Flies). It helps me play me better, smoothly and correct.

But I wonder: is economy picking a bad habit? Should I instead practice alternate picking to 100%?

One example is the Master Of Puppets second intro riff:

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|-----2-----3-----4-----3-----2-2-----2-----3------5\4---5\4---5\4---|
|-0-1---0-1---0-1---0-1---0-1-----0-1---0-1---0-0--3\2-0-3\2-0-3\2---|[/FONT]


Here I pick "Up, Down, Down, Up, Down, Down".
This technique helps me play it in the right tempo, than downpicking.

Should I quit economy pick and go for 100% alternate? Or stick to it?
#2
my guitar teacher told me to alternate/downpick the second intro riff of master of puppets. I had pretty hard time to switch from economic to alternate and i still have pretty hard time playing it
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#3
alternate picking that riff is hard - hetfield downpicks it as im sure you know, but building downpicking speed takes a while - no-ones likely to even touch hetfield when it comes to downpicking!

if the economy picking sounds correct and smooth, i see no reason why not to - every note downpicked is preferred though, i think
#4
when is started i alternate picked it.

but by now i downpick it and i would suggest to downpick it. the attack is much different and you will improve. for example: i haven´t been able to play waking the deamons by bfmv with downpicking. but now i can and it sound much better than alternate
#5
Quote by megadethdefying
alternate picking that riff is hard - hetfield downpicks it as im sure you know, but building downpicking speed takes a while - no-ones likely to even touch hetfield when it comes to downpicking!

if the economy picking sounds correct and smooth, i see no reason why not to - every note downpicked is preferred though, i think


With your username I think you should know that at least one person comes close to/surpasses Hetfield when it comes to downpicking.

Pick how it is most comfortable for you, there is no right or wrong way and you can go fast with both.
#6
You mean hetfield downpicks every note in that riff?
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#7
its just a different type of picking... its not bad technique to economy pick.... a whole bunch of jazz guys use it... like allan holdsworth, although he does more alt. picking.... he called economy picking mini sweep picking... which it is. the guy that has the best technique in economy picking in metal has to be marty friedman....if you want to get serious about economy picking, study marty...

but im more of an alt. picker. i dont sweep pick at all ( i think its over used, along with tapping)


but hetfield downpicks it all...
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#8
alternate picking is possible but i think it would sound sloppy - alternative picking consists of two picks at a time, the stress obviously being on the downpicked note, and that riff has the notes group in threes - stresses would be in the wrong place - also going from an upstroke on the E string to a downstroke on the A string is awkward as you have to skip a string - this happens often, and vice versa, when playing this riff alternate picked
#10
Hetfield himself has actually said that they DO alternate pick a lot more than people think...
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#11
To anyone that says that down-picking sounds better than alternate picking: it does not, you just suck at doing upstrokes. You should be able to produce the exact same sound as pure downpicking with alternate picking... Practice.
Speed is a by-product of shut the fuck up.
#12
Quote by Aleksi
To anyone that says that down-picking sounds better than alternate picking: it does not, you just suck at doing upstrokes. You should be able to produce the exact same sound as pure downpicking with alternate picking... Practice.


+1

Paul Gilbert is a great example of awesome palm muting doing strictly alternate picking.
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#13
I don't have a problem with sound, it sounds really good when I economy pick it.

It's just that I want the right "goal" for my practicing in picking, to get better and better. I viewed my economy picking training with trepidation, therefore I dunno' to really go for alt, down or economy...
I'm decent at alternate picks, a little less with downpicks, overall good.

Thanks for the quicky and multiple replies!
#14
Really there's not much difference between economy picking and alternate, just a difference in approaching one kind of pickstroke. Sometimes it's easier one way, sometimes another. Getting a good feel for both is very useful.
#15
Economy picking isn't a bad habit. It's a technique, like Alternate picking. But you shouldn't neglect alternate picking, Economy picking is merely a tool, and is not meant as a replacement for alternate.

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#16
Quote by Aleksi
To anyone that says that down-picking sounds better than alternate picking: it does not, you just suck at doing upstrokes. You should be able to produce the exact same sound as pure downpicking with alternate picking... Practice.


Or you suck at downpicking.
I play Master of Puppets all downpicking (james h.) and i know how to alternate. And downpicking sounds BETTER them alt picking, but this doesn't mean you should play down picking for life. Just learn alternative/economy picking to, because it will boost your skills. When i learned how to alternate properly it helped alot in playing songs i couldn't.
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#17
Quote by kumamilesbear
Hetfield himself has actually said that they DO alternate pick a lot more than people think...

Yeah, but they definitely downpick that riff. There are some people that are convinced that he downpicks literally everything. Thing is, a lot of Metallica riffs are physically impossible to exclusively downpick. Those are the people he's refuting. He does downpick whenever he can, though.
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#18
Beleive it or not, I really think it comes down to the pick. If your using a larger pick it is easier to go all down while playing it.You can get faster with time. I have found that if I have a #3 jaz pick that I can alternate pick will less effort, but it can get screwed up quickly.

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Last edited by Guit-FiddleMan at Dec 11, 2009,
#19
Economy picking is not a bad habit as long as your alternate picking is rock solid.
#20
Quote by megadethdefying
- no-ones likely to even touch hetfield when it comes to downpicking!

Hey, I've been working on it and I'm getting close lol
But any who, I really would recommend just doing that riff with all down picks. Unless you're some sort of freak, the human hand is more powerful down picking than it is up picking. Since you're going for the heaviest/more badass sound in "Master of Puppets", you're probably going to want to down pick all of it. And like, even if you can't down pick that fast, it would be worth taking the time to learn how to. I mean, if you don't take the time to learn how to down pick fast now, then when are you?
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#21
Lol, I use the opposite of economy picking for that riff, I guess you could call it "inefficient" picking, but I play it as D U D D U D D U D D U D D U D U

but that's because it gives the illusion of complete downpicking, while accentuating the notes on the A string a lot better than pure downpicking.

EDIT: Nvm, I do U D D , but I don't use the sweep motion associated with econ
Last edited by beadhangingOne at Dec 12, 2009,