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#1
New amp. Head n Cab. Play mainly metal at home. no band at the mo, i understand that u need meeds in band situation tho. But im concerned to find, that with this new amp, i have to actualy cut mids completely to get that punchy metal sound i know and love.

Its odd though because i was under the impression you need to have some mids. and are only supposed to "scoop" them. But this active EQ, if i turn up mids by even 1 or 2 the sound gets muddy! So i wonder if in some situations its ok to actually have no mids? Or is this really strange?
#2
What amp are you talking about?
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#4
I know your using active EQ but tone doesn't normally get muddy from turning mids up. Also for your tone you need to find a balance as some miss are needed or you will not be heard.
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#5
well it kinda gets like, almost a classic rock tone to it as soon as any mids come in, Totally loses the punch.
#6
Scooping mids dosent give you the punch, its the bass and mids that give punch, mabey since your using a new amp you can't use the same exact settings that you used with your other amp, every amp has its own settings to create certian sounds, so what I'm thinking is you need more bass and less treble, and more mids. Cause no matter what you think, even your favorite metal artists play with alot of mids.

Or mabey your just not using the right type of distortion.
#7
What is your setup?
The amp isn't the only thing playing a role in how to set the EQ up...

If I recall correctly,
An ACTIVE EQ is basically up=adding dB, down=lowering dB of which ever frequencies the lows/mids/highs are assigned to.


I scooped the mids to 10-11 o'clock on a JSX I played because I thought it was crazy mid-heavy... that and I was playing through a mid-heavy guitar.
#8
Mids=punch, there's no way round that fact...whatever it is you're hearing it's not a punchy sound, at least not as far as general consensus is concerned. The midrange is the heart of your tone, those are the frequencies that the guitar produces....suck it out and you're sucking the life out of your sound.
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#9
You need mids. As well, if you don't have any mids, and you try to play in a group with any other instruments, you won't cut through.
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#11
Quote by tubab0y
You need mids. As well, if you don't have any mids, and you try to play in a group with any other instruments, you won't cut through.


Yeah, if you go clean, and happen to be using thick gauge strings, you'll become a 6 string bassist.

LOL.

Give me your settings, I'll figure something out!
#14
in metal you want lower mids. not so much the high mids which gear you more towards a lead tone. the trick is to setup enough bass to get the low end thump you are looking for, then add enough mids so that your guitar has presence. for a good metal tone be careful about your treble frequencies.... try and avoid any fizz if possible, and my rule is setup the bass and then the mids and then start your treble at 0 and then slowly increase it until you find a point that it sounds good without too much top end.
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#15
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that doesn't make any sense..... metalcore tones tend to have a fair bit of mids
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#17
sounds gd thanks for the advice. For the man who wanted my settings, its mids 3-4, treble 10, bass 6, gain 6, prescence 5.
#18
Ok, switch your gain with your treble, that tends to help. Then consider turning your treble round a bit more. EDIT Then work from there.

I'm kind of in a band at school, we do nothing, and I'm the bassist (even though I'm a guitarist?) but I sort everybodies tones out. I even set up the drummers cymbals because people abuse them.
#19
Your trble is too high.
With the 333 try starting everything at noon and working from there. Tweak slowly what you think you need. It worked like magic with my xxx
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#20
Quote by steven seagull
Mids=punch, there's no way round that fact...whatever it is you're hearing it's not a punchy sound, at least not as far as general consensus is concerned. The midrange is the heart of your tone, those are the frequencies that the guitar produces....suck it out and you're sucking the life out of your sound.


Mids don't = punch. If i scoop the mids on my amp on the crunch setting then it does have a punch. It also lacks a lot of character and sounds abit fizzy and not to my taste but it DOES have 'punch' most definatly.

I love mids though :3 in the tone test clip on my profile i had bass at 2, treble at 1 and mids all the way up ;D
#22
Alright, I made an example track to show you the impact mids have on metal tones. I have a extremly bad ear infection right now, and I can't hear shit, so there is no post EQ'ing on this track, straight from the amp, only adjusting the mids.

I used my Valveking, Boss Ds-1 on the clean channel, and my Custom Metal Squier with EMG's in Drop A#.

I start off with Scooped mids, then I pause to adjust the mids, next is the mids at about 11 oclock, which is what I normally record and play with, then I crank the mids all the way, then I go back to my setting, then back to scooped.

http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/ethan_hanus/music/all/play748597

It sounds like shit to me, but it might just be my hearing.
#23
right so iv dropped my treble to 3 o clock, actually sounds a bit nicer for leads now. Got the mids at 9 o clock still tho, any higher and it suddenly sounds like classic rock. I can record sum clips if u wana hear the difference?
#24
ooh i just listened to ur clip ethan and i see wt u mean. But bear in mind i do use standard tuning!
#25
Quote by CurtisRG
ooh i just listened to ur clip ethan and i see wt u mean. But bear in mind i do use standard tuning!


The same concept applies to standard tuning too, Drop A# is exactly 2 steps down from standard anyway, it'll just sound higher pitch and less bassy.

But I'm using some pertty low grade equipment here, so there is no reason you can't pull a tone better than mine out of your amp.

When you start recording your going to realize that your going to have to dial in alot more mids, cause in recording alot of mids gets sucked out, and wont let you cut through the drums. But I bet the reason you think it sounds classic rockish is because you've played with scooped mids for so long your ears have gotten used to the sound, so when you add the mids it sounds to full for your current tastes. I used to be the same way, but just add the mids, and play with your mids up for a few days and see if you get used to it.
Last edited by ethan_hanus at Dec 12, 2009,
#26
ok il trust u and give it a go :P it does feel odd tho :P thanks a lot for ur help with it man reli reli appreciate it
#27
actually, out of interest. When bands use "scooped mids", what kind of level of scoopage are we talking about that is regarded as acceptable? Like for instance wat settings would you ppl use for a thrash metal sound?
#29
Quote by CurtisRG
actually, out of interest. When bands use "scooped mids", what kind of level of scoopage are we talking about that is regarded as acceptable? Like for instance wat settings would you ppl use for a thrash metal sound?

They usually use a fair amount of mids, though, it was common to scoop a bit of mids on an amp that might have a lot of mids already.
#32
I scoop my mids? The trick is finding that perfect medium. bring the bass up until it is thick and heavy but not boomy, treble until it has some percussive elements but isnt tinny or too harsh, and then **** with the mids for the next 20 minutes, lol. Try to always use the least amount of gain to achive the desired sound, too much and you loose dynamics. I have an active mid control too, they can be kind of a bitch but its nice cause no matter what, if you turn it up a tiny littlebit, you get a tiny little bit more.

There is of course exceptions, like black metal where its not supposed to sound 'good' or porno-grind, where you are going to want as much gain as possible lol
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#34
Some scooping of mids might be necessary depending on your amp or your speakers. Too little mids won't let your sound cut through but too much mids can make things muddy. Play with your mids until you get a happy medium between sounding like a beehive and sounding like a thick pile of shit.
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#35
Quote by DrNick
Some scooping of mids might be necessary depending on your amp or your speakers. Too little mids won't let your sound cut through but too much mids can make things muddy. Play with your mids until you get a happy medium between sounding like a beehive and sounding like a thick pile of shit.


We've fixed this problem, now we're aruging about Metalcore and its scooped mids, or not scooped mids.
#36
Quote by Banana Wedgie
I don't get black metal, I get Blackened death metal, and symphonic black metal...

But normal black metal is just a bit boring with its non existence mids as the leading instrument.
I think it is, mostly, sleepy time music. Burzum, Lurker of Chalice, et cetera. I find it GREAT for sleeping.

Highly distorted alternate picking with double bass and blast beats...Very calming, ha
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#37
I have sleepy music too.

Its generally anything that's 2-4 minutes long and has alot of blast beating in. It tends to cool me down.

I do it every night, while I'm getting into bed.

Last night I had Jihad - Slayer, the night before I had Tools Of The Trade - Carcass and the night before I had.... What did I have then?...

Oh yeah, it was Mudvayne - Do What You Do, because I had just gotten it off my laptop to my computer.
#38
I just realized why my clip sounded so horrible, I had left my lead channel on and ran my pedal through the lead channel without knowing it. So now I have to redo it, cause my discriptions didnt apply. haha, freaken Tramadol has me wacked out completly.

I'll get back to this thread with a proper clip showing the differences used in mids.

EDIT: Ok, got the new clip, yeah I know, I work fast, but this time I did it right

Same as before, I start off with scooped mids, then I go to 11 o clock, then full, then back to 11 o clock, then backed to scooped. Sounds much much better too.

http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/ethan_hanus/music/all/play748800
Last edited by ethan_hanus at Dec 12, 2009,
#40
Mids=
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