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#1
I'm finding it a little annoying when moderate Christians see a fundamentalist or some crazy Christian and say something along the lines of 'dammit, we're not all like that'. It's not because of any qualms I have with moderate Christians, but it's because I feel that they really should not apologise for someone else. It's not them who's saying it and we all know that most Christians aren't like those fundamentalists. Well, in the developed world.

Anyone agree on this? C'mon, modern Christians should only apologise for themselves, not other Christians.
#3
Quote by SG_dave
i don't think they're apologising most of the time, they're creating a rift. Distancing themselves from the nutters to stop prejudice.

Same applies if you want to call it that. They shouldn't have to do that.
#4
Quote by SG_dave
i don't think they're apologising most of the time, they're creating a rift. Distancing themselves from the nutters to stop prejudice.


This.

Like in any community, there's bound to be people who go overboard on the beliefs shared within that community. To distance yourself from those people is the best you can do to keep your community and welcoming place.
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#6
Quote by Demonology
This.

Like in any community, there's bound to be people who go overboard on the beliefs shared within that community. To distance yourself from those people is the best you can do to keep your community and welcoming place.

For example?

And to reiterate, why should they feel the need to vocalise that they're separate from them?
#7
It's probably because whenever people see a fundamentalist people go like "oooh, them crazy christians durka durka dur!" and obviously the "normal" christians don't like being grouped in with the loonies any more than you or I like to be grouped in with the loonies. I'm sure there's plenty of people who realize there's a difference between normal believer of X faith and batshit-insane believer of X faith, but alot of people who don't.

You shouldn't underestimate people's ability to come off like arrogant sods so divorced from reality it's enough that people share the same view on a certain aspect they all are alike.
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#8
Because they are likely to suffer from the negative stereotype created by the extreme ones.
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#9
The problem is that non christians will instantly think everyone is like that.
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#10
Quote by Craigo
Same applies if you want to call it that. They shouldn't have to do that.

Think of it this way; when you see something like a TV show saying 'woah violent video games turn all children into murderers, it happened to this kid', don't you want to tell them "actually, we're not all like this"?
#11
It's not a phenomenon confined to Christians. It's a basic human reaction to think people who apologise for themselves and other people are pathetic.
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#12
Quote by Craigo
For example?

And to reiterate, why should they feel the need to vocalise that they're separate from them?


For example... hmm.

Well I can't think of one right now.

But the reason to vocalize that they're different is simply because they are different - they do not want someone like that in their community and they're trying to show others (potential members?) that they aren't like that.
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#13
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#14
Quote by Craigo
And to reiterate, why should they feel the need to vocalise that they're separate from them?

So they don't get branded as a loony as well, perhaps?

And would you, perchance, be making the same argument about the mainstream Muslim community distancing itself quite rightly from Islamic extremists and suicide bombers?

Eg - I get called a Stalinist muder-supporter because I'm openly socialist. I vocalize my opposition to all forms of violence and oppression. I think that's personally a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Last edited by Kumanji at Dec 13, 2009,
#16
It's like this. Say you're interested in metal, but whenever you say that people automatically associate you with the freaks who wear corpsepaint, carry prop axes, burn churches, kill each other, etc. You would want everyone to realize not every metalhead is a batshit insane varg-clone.
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#17
christians?? FTW. this is a huge problem that muslims face the world over. some crazy tribal dudes kill a bunch of people and all muslims wana kill everyone thats bullshit. I blame the media for destroying the true meaning of religion.
#18
Quote by VIO-LENT
christians?? FTW. this is a huge problem that muslims face the world over. some crazy tribal dudes kill a bunch of people and all muslims wana kill everyone thats bullshit. I blame the media for destroying the true meaning of religion.

Partly. But Churches and religious institutions have done a pretty good job bending religious messages to their own purposes too...
#19
Quote by VIO-LENT
christians?? FTW. this is a huge problem that muslims face the world over. some crazy tribal dudes kill a bunch of people and all muslims wana kill everyone thats bullshit. I blame the media for destroying the true meaning of religion.

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#20
In my opinion -
Here's the real problem: Fundamentalist Christians are usually Christians who believe everything in the bible. Moderate Christians (or "Cafeteria Christians" as I like to call them, as they pick and choose the things they want to believe in from Christianity) believe some things from Christianity, but not others. The problem is that the things these moderate Christians believe in come from the same text, the bible, that the fundamentalists believe in. If they were truly Christian they would believe everything in the bible. But most people aren't that stupid. However, they're still afraid of being sent to hell or whatever, so they still call themselves Christian.
It is pretty damn obvious that a lot of the things in the bible are false (eg. the creation story, Adam and Eve, a man living in a whale, 2 of every animal on a boat, etc.), so if at least some of it is obviously made up, then by association the whole thing must be wrong.

Moderate Christians want to distance themselves from the fundies to not look crazy, but in reality, the core of their religion (like all others) is still crazy.
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#21
What is with all the Christian threads today? It's irritating. Everyone always ends up arguing and being dicks to each other.

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#22
Quote by Craigo
They shouldn't have to do that.
Operative word in bold.

Quote by Craigo
we all know that most Christians aren't like those fundamentalists.
Disagree with the all part. This is UG. You won't have a problem finding users who paint with a broad brush, pointing to statements made by extremists and saying "This is what's wrong with [insert entire group here]"


Quote by Sparks92
In my opinion -
Here's the real problem: Fundamentalist Christians are usually Christians who believe everything in the bible.
Really?
iirc "Judge not, lest ye be judged" is in the bible. Does that sound like a "fundamentalist" belief?
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#24
Quote by Vauxite
What is with all the Christian threads today? It's irritating. Everyone always ends up arguing and being dicks to each other.

TS; Agreed.

Isn't it perfectly right that if you see someone being rather bizarre and lunatic, with whom you have a danger of being associated, then you disavow any agreement with them whatsoever?
#25
Quote by Bizzare/mu/tant
It's like this. Say you're interested in metal, but whenever you say that people automatically associate you with the freaks who wear corpsepaint, carry prop axes, burn churches, kill each other, etc. You would want everyone to realize not every metalhead is a batshit insane varg-clone.


This, definitely.

Not that there's anything wrong with Varg-clones.
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#26
Yeah, you're right. We should probably all just let ourselves be lumped into a stereotype by ignorant outsiders.

I'm a white guy from Upstate New York ... like, practically farm country. Maybe I should start hating minorities and stop talking to my black friends too. I know a guy that shoots and eats squirrels. Maybe I can get in on some of that action.

Or maybe the next time I get called a hick in Boston or NYC, I can just remind them that we have a growing liberal arts community, and not too long ago we had an exhibit that had just left the Whitney art museum in NYC. Just a couple blocks from the tea shop, in fact. Or that our area recently hosted Anthony Bourdain, Lewis Black, and God only knows how many jazz acts, in addition to Larry the Cable Guy and a hockey team.

But you think our entire town should go on letting people think we're rednecks because there are a lot of them around us?
#27
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
Really?
iirc "Judge not, lest ye be judged" is in the bible. Does that sound like a "fundamentalist" belief?

Did you even read the rest of my post?
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#28
Quote by BeerBlood
This, definitely.

Not that there's anything wrong with Varg-clones.

... I'm pretty sure there is.
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#29
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
Operative word in bold.
Really?
iirc "Judge not, lest ye be judged" is in the bible. Does that sound like a "fundamentalist" belief?


Agreed. The bible also says we shouldn't mix fibres in our cothing (although I think that was Old Testament), and as late as the New Testament we were still supposed to kill goats as offerings on almost every holy day.

How many "I live by The Book" Christians do you know that even own goats?
#30
Quote by jean_genie
Agreed. The bible also says we shouldn't mix fibres in our cothing (although I think that was Old Testament), and as late as the New Testament we were still supposed to kill goats as offerings on almost every holy day.

How many "I live by The Book" Christians do you know that even own goats?

Religion isn't about following such silly observances. At least it shouldn't be, otherwise you're just following it blindly.

And whomsoever called 'liberal' Christians 'Cafeteria Christians', it's all well and good bashing people for not adhering 100% to religions, but then again most religion is rooted in a past age, full of lots of rubbish which is no longer relevant to modern life. It's sensible to maintain core beliefs and eternal truths whilst getting rid of all the useless cultural practices - if anything, being a Cafeteria Christian is much more valuable, since it shows people evaluating what their faith means to them. The best religion is a fusion of picked and chosen truths from many different sources relevant to the individual.
#31
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... I'm pretty sure there is.


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#32
Quote by jean_genie
The bible also says we shouldn't mix fibres in our cothing (although I think that was Old Testament), and as late as the New Testament we were still supposed to kill goats as offerings on almost every holy day.

So do THEY sound like fundamentalist beliefs?
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#33
Quote by Sparks92
Did you even read the rest of my post?
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Quote by Sparks92
Moderate Christians want to distance themselves from the fundies to not look crazy, but in reality, the core of their religion (like all others) is still crazy.


...
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#34
Quote by Sparks92
In my opinion -
Here's the real problem: Fundamentalist Christians are usually Christians who believe everything in the bible. Moderate Christians (or "Cafeteria Christians" as I like to call them, as they pick and choose the things they want to believe in from Christianity) believe some things from Christianity, but not others. The problem is that the things these moderate Christians believe in come from the same text, the bible, that the fundamentalists believe in. If they were truly Christian they would believe everything in the bible. But most people aren't that stupid. However, they're still afraid of being sent to hell or whatever, so they still call themselves Christian.
It is pretty damn obvious that a lot of the things in the bible are false (eg. the creation story, Adam and Eve, a man living in a whale, 2 of every animal on a boat, etc.), so if at least some of it is obviously made up, then by association the whole thing must be wrong.

Moderate Christians want to distance themselves from the fundies to not look crazy, but in reality, the core of their religion (like all others) is still crazy.


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#35
I dont "apologize"..I get offended and start arguing with whoever lumped me in with said stereotype. They are wrong, not you. Why would I apologize?
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#36
Quote by Craigo
For example?

And to reiterate, why should they feel the need to vocalise that they're separate from them?


To make sure everyone sees the line between them and the nutters.

You wouldn't want to be viewed as a nutter would you? And if people said you were, you'd try and make it clear that you aren't.

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#37
Quote by Sparks92
It is pretty damn obvious that a lot of the things in the bible are false (eg. the creation story, Adam and Eve, a man living in a whale, 2 of every animal on a boat, etc.), so if at least some of it is obviously made up, then by association the whole thing must be wrong.

Moderate Christians want to distance themselves from the fundies to not look crazy, but in reality, the core of their religion (like all others) is still crazy.


I have to disagree on that, I know that if you believe what the bible says word for word, then yuo're a nutter. But the bible is all about symbolism, every story has a symbolic meaning (don't ask them, I don't know them all). If you believe the symbolism behind those stories, you are a normal Christian, and you have a guide on how to live. I'm a bit of a Christian (in no way like this), but I know people who live by the symbolism in these stories.

Also, every religion has fundamentalists, people think everyone should believe what they believe, and if the not everyone agrees, they should be killed. All the bad and wrong in the world comes from these people not living by the rules of the fundamentalists. So these people should be wiped away from the face of the earth.
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#38
Quote by BeerBlood

Lol every time I see that.
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#39
Quote by Kumanji
Religion isn't about following such silly observances. At least it shouldn't be, otherwise you're just following it blindly.

And whomsoever called 'liberal' Christians 'Cafeteria Christians', it's all well and good bashing people for not adhering 100% to religions, but then again most religion is rooted in a past age, full of lots of rubbish which is no longer relevant to modern life.

Yes, yes it is.
Maybe people should upgrade to the new and exciting religions of Mormonism and Scientology. Full of modern day relevant goodness.

Quote by Kumanji
It's sensible to maintain core beliefs and eternal truths whilst getting rid of all the useless cultural practices - if anything, being a Cafeteria Christian is much more valuable, since it shows people evaluating what their faith means to them. .

Yes, Cafeteria Christians are more "valuable" in a way, because usually they maintain the basic positive morals in the bible. But the problem is that WE DON'T NEED THE BIBLE TO TEACH THESE MORALS. Morals do NOT come from Christianity, or any religion. We don't need to have all these crazy beliefs and stories that come with religion to give us morals or to answer the fundamental questions of life. It's simply not needed, and it gives people a false sense of hope, while also arrogantly looking down upon those who don't believe.

Quote by Kumanji
The best religion is a fusion of picked and chosen truths from many different sources relevant to the individual.

Sure, but that religion is still just false hope.
The best religion is no religion.
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#40
Quote by Sparks92
The best religion is no religion.

Nah, Bad Religion is better.
Keep your friends close, and your enemies at gunpoint.
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