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#1
i have a question. why do you think nu metal and rap metal both suck? please explain in a professionaly way, no "blah balh blah nu metal is sissy" etc. In MY opinion i find nothing wrong with these bands, they are just different. I mean just because they are influnsed by some hip hop doesnt mean they are not music.

p.s. however i dont like slipknot lol
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#3
1. The bands got famous and then "sold out"
2. People grew out of those bands


I think those are the reasons people hate certain bands under the title nu metal

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#4
youre right they did sell out. however i dont think people today will grow out of pop-rock and those crapy mainstream autotuned music. and that is even worse.
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#5
I hate to say it, but Linkin Park was my gateway into harder music, and here i am today. Listening to things i just years ago would never have dreamed of hearing.
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#6
I like some of them...

The reason why most people hate them is not because they don't like them, it's because someone else told them not to do so.


Originally Posted by evening_crow
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#7
hate to say it, but Linkin Park was my gateway into harder music, and here i am today. Listening to things i just years ago would never have dreamed of hearing.

i started listening to linkin park around 2005, and i hate to admit it too, but i kinda liked it. then minutes to midnight came out which isnt even hardcore, but i think its awsome. i cant listen to screaming all day, can you?
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#8
like some of them...

The reason why most people hate them is not because they don't like them, it's because someone else told them not to do so.


+1
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#9
Well...I used to like Slipknot when I was 13 and I can't say i don't like them now. But firstly I "grew out" of them lyricly and I think they sold out big time. Compare IOWA with All hope is Gone. The difference is massive.

As for say Linkin Park. They again "used" to be good. I really used to enjoy their style. Newer album...not so much. Another reason is that a certain group called "emos" started listening to them and I personally didn't want to be associated with said group. Childish thing to do I know. But in my eyes as the music changed so did the target group which triggered the selling out.

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Quote by stratdud39
Thank you for your words of wisdom.
#10
Well...I used to like Slipknot when I was 13 and I can't say i don't like them now. But firstly I "grew out" of them lyricly and I think they sold out big time. Compare IOWA with All hope is Gone. The difference is massive.


lol i never liked slipknot, wayy too much screaming. especialy IOWA. cant stand that album XD
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#11
Quote by benmoon
youre right they did sell out. however i dont think people today will grow out of pop-rock and those crapy mainstream autotuned music. and that is even worse.

Wow it seems that whenever a band gets famous they "sell out" just because they have a hit single or something doesn't mean they sold out maybe you people need to realize that when a band turns mainstream it actually means they're good and people want to listen to them not automatically "oh I hate those fags I used to like them but they sold out."
Last edited by patsfannumero1 at Dec 13, 2009,
#12

Wow it seems that whenever a band gets famous they "sell out" just because they have a hit single or something doesn't mean they sold out maybe you people need to realize that when a band turns mainstream it actually means they're good and people want to listen to them not automatically "oh I hate those fags I used to like them but they sold out

well nu metal is basically dead, other than linkin park they are gone. actually linkin park isnt nu metal anymore and their upcoming album isnt supposed to be nu metal anymore anyways. nobody listens to nu metal anymore and bands like korn and limp bizkit are basically almost extint now
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#13
Quote by benmoon
well nu metal is basically dead, other than linkin park they are gone. actually linkin park isnt nu metal anymore and their upcoming album isnt supposed to be nu metal anymore anyways. nobody listens to nu metal anymore and bands like korn and limp bizkit are basically almost extint now

Well I think we can all agree that Limp bizkit just sucks because they suck ass not because they sold out or anything.
#14
Because there is little, if any, musicianship in the Numetal genre. Most of it was made by bands that have absolutley no idea how to construct songs (probably because of their age). Numetal is pretty much noise pasted togeather fuled by teen angst. Most of these idiots don't know what real angst, pain or rage is. Alot of it stems from this generations docile, worry free, suburban upbringing and are probably looking to vent anger or "TouFen Ups ThieRS ImaGe"

As for the rap element. Rap and metal simply don't mix. It just doesn't work. Thats like making a peanut butter and cheese sandwich. No one should even attempt the idea again because we all know how shitty the results are.

Bands like Slipknot, MushroomHead, Korn, Papa Roach, Mudvayne, ect ect ect simply don't get it. They don't know what heavy metal is, They think the de tuned guitars, 12 piece bands with everything but the kitchen sink , horror/shock costume image and f ucking disgusting subject matter makes them metal. The whole "MooRe NoIZE = Better or MooRE ****ed Ups and HeAviY" is probably the worst thing about Numetal as a whole.

The simplicity of the music was a big inslut to people who actually learned how to play their instruments. You'd have entire songs written on the low E string, drop tuning used by bands who didn't understand what drop tuning was and simply god awful ideas put to music.

They simply don't know restraint. They don't know how to build a song up or express emotions through music other then these fantasy violent images. It got boring real fast to listen to 17 song albums where some retard screams, moan and gurgles lyrics about how he got dumped and wants to maim his girlfreind or how mommy and daddy didn't pay enough attention to him or how the world hates him because he (and his fellow fans) are "different" from the mainstream.

I think those are the reasons mostly why it died out of faded from popularity.

Now the big trend are the metal core bands. They suck just as bad but for different reasons. But that is another can of worms.
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Last edited by Phil Collins at Dec 13, 2009,
#15
Quote by patsfannumero1
Well I think we can all agree that Limp bizkit just sucks because they suck ass not because they sold out or anything.

Thank you for proving my point.

Originally Posted by evening_crow
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#16
A lot of the time, overly-simplistic, forcing different genres together that they can't pull off (Just because Mike Patton can pull off rapping, singing and screaming in one song, it doesn't mean you can, Durst), making songs that are very unmemorable because of how basic they are, and the fact that a lot of bands don't sound like they want to be playing the music, they're just doing it because that's what Ross Robinson or whatever wants. Case in point, Ross telling Jim & Mick from Slipknot not to play solos.
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#17
its only a matter of time before any style of anything evolves. of course ur still left with a remnant of its core. a better question would be what makes numetal what it is. who were the forerunners. the bands that come to mind attached metal to the more popular genres of that time, yup that means hip hop. therefore making these bands more commercially acceptable. i dont think its that these bands suck, i just think there is a rather minute generational gap that makes most of us biased and unable to accept the new. needless to say these bands dont even compare to the metal most of us listen to. im NOT a new metal fan at all. that dosnt mean they suck though. i will close out with a quote of my own.

"Personal style is derived from a lack of knowledge. We will always learn to cope with whats missing."
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Essence of Pain
#18
Because most of it was the bastardised son of groove metal and shit rap, who then had a kid with his cousin, sub-par grunge. The webbed-footed, drooling little sod that came out was nu-metal.

It was also absolutely pathetic seeing well-off 30 year olds churning out teenage angst and lyrics 12 year olds could come up with.
Last edited by webbtje at Dec 13, 2009,
#19
Because there is little, if any, musicianship in the Numetal genre. Most of it was made by bands that have absolutley no idea how to construct songs (probably because of their age). Numetal is pretty much noise pasted togeather fuled by teen angst. Most of these idiots don't know what real angst, pain or rage is. Alot of it stems from this generations docile, worry free, suburban upbringing and are probably looking to vent anger or "TouFen Ups ThieRS ImaGe"

As for the rap element. Rap and metal simply don't mix. It just doesn't work. Thats like making a peanut butter and cheese sandwich. No one should even attempt the idea again because we all know how shitty the results are.

Bands like Slipknot, MushroomHead, Korn, Papa Roach, Mudvayne, ect ect ect simply don't get it. They don't know what heavy metal is, They think the de tuned guitars, 12 piece bands with everything but the kitchen sink , horror/shock costume image and f ucking disgusting subject matter makes them metal. The whole "MooRe NoIZE = Better or MooRE ****ed Ups and HeAviY" is probably the worst thing about Numetal as a whole.

The simplicity of the music was a big inslut to people who actually learned how to play their instruments. You'd have entire songs written on the low E string, drop tuning used by bands who didn't understand what drop tuning was and simply god awful ideas put to music.

They simply don't know restraint. They don't know how to build a song up or express emotions through music other then these fantasy violent images. It got boring real fast to listen to 17 song albums where some retard screams, moan and gurgles lyrics about how he got dumped and wants to maim his girlfreind or how mommy and daddy didn't pay enough attention to him or how the world hates him because he (and his fellow fans) are "different" from the mainstream.

I think those are the reasons mostly why it died out of faded from popularity.

Now the big trend are the metal core bands. They suck just as bad but for different reasons. But that is another can of worms.


nu metal uhh yes have angry lyrics. however AT LEAST ITS MEANINGFUL. these days the "rock" im hearing on the radio are "put your hands up, throw them in their, you and me like we really dont care".

and i think korn is also pretty good.

but to everybody, yes. limp bizkit do suck as well. fred durst does not have any singing or rapping skills. i kinda like their song rollin', otherwise they just plain suck.
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#20
Quote by Phil Collins
Because there is little, if any, musicianship in the Numetal genre. Most of it was made by bands that have absolutley no idea how to construct songs (probably because of their age). Numetal is pretty much noise pasted togeather fuled by teen angst. Most of these idiots don't know what real angst, pain or rage is. Alot of it stems from this generations docile, worry free, suburban upbringing and are probably looking to vent anger or "TouFen Ups ThieRS ImaGe"

As for the rap element. Rap and metal simply don't mix. It just doesn't work. Thats like making a peanut butter and cheese sandwich. No one should even attempt the idea again because we all know how shitty the results are.

Bands like Slipknot, MushroomHead, Korn, Papa Roach, Mudvayne, ect ect ect simply don't get it. They don't know what heavy metal is, They think the de tuned guitars, 12 piece bands with everything but the kitchen sink , horror/shock costume image and f ucking disgusting subject matter makes them metal. The whole "MooRe NoIZE = Better or MooRE ****ed Ups and HeAviY" is probably the worst thing about Numetal as a whole.

The simplicity of the music was a big inslut to people who actually learned how to play their instruments. You'd have entire songs written on the low E string, drop tuning used by bands who didn't understand what drop tuning was and simply god awful ideas put to music.

They simply don't know restraint. They don't know how to build a song up or express emotions through music other then these fantasy violent images. It got boring real fast to listen to 17 song albums where some retard screams, moan and gurgles lyrics about how he got dumped and wants to maim his girlfreind or how mommy and daddy didn't pay enough attention to him or how the world hates him because he (and his fellow fans) are "different" from the mainstream.

I think those are the reasons mostly why it died out of faded from popularity.

Now the big trend are the metal core bands. They suck just as bad but for different reasons. But that is another can of worms.


Ok since you're Mr. know-it-all please explain to us, What is heavy metal really about?
#21
Phil Collins is a prime of example of why generalization is bad. A lot of nu-metal doesn't even use rapping. I like it because it's a more accessible form of heavy music that you can still bang your head to.

And angsty lyrics that 12 year olds could come up with? I'm willing to bet not even 3% of nu-metal songs I've heard fit that description. Quit generalizing. Just because the music has an angry feel doesn't mean it's all "wah **** the government" in every song.

Nu-metal bands I like:

Godsmack
Deftones
Korn(some songs)
Drowning Pool
Staind(early material)
Disturbed
#22
Godsmack
Deftones
Korn(some songs)
Drowning Pool
Staind(early material)
Disturbed


all good nu metal bands.
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#23
Quote by patsfannumero1
Wow it seems that whenever a band gets famous they "sell out" just because they have a hit single or something doesn't mean they sold out maybe you people need to realize that when a band turns mainstream it actually means they're good and people want to listen to them not automatically "oh I hate those fags I used to like them but they sold out."

No.. They're sell outs because Korn took a 500,000 endorsement from PUMA, and wrote a song called A.D.I.D.A.S. Look at their music videos and pictures of them from around the Follow the Leader era. It was like I, Robot. Jon was NEVER seen without a damn ADIDAS shirt on. Limp Bizkit had a similar problem, and although it's not verified, I'm certain they probably got paid to subliminally advertise to kids, too.

Although I don't like agreeing with Phil.. I also feel like the lyrics from nu-metal bands sound like cliche angsty thirteen year old girls. The best example would be Staind. Though, I DO think a lot of the nu-metal bands have valid reasons to be unhappy, I also feel like a lot of them manufactured and overplayed how unhappy they actually are, and wrote simplistic lyrics about complex situations and that is what separates the whininess of Elliott Smith/Conor Oberst from the whininess of Aaron Lewis/Jonathan Davis. Thirdly, aside from the drums, I'm not a big fan of most nu-metal music in itself. Though, Korn did sometimes get some pretty cool tones.

But, most importantly I just want to say Godsmack should drown themselves for refusing to admit they're nothing more than an Alice in Chains cover band. For ages, they wouldn't even admit where the band name came from. They just kept telling the same old story about karma and cold sores. And then they went ahead and named an album very similar to Facelift. And then did the acoustic EP, which is something AIC is known for . It's cool with me if they want to be AIC and follow in their foot steps.. but at least be more open about it. Those drum solos are kinda cool, though.
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#24
Nu Metal doesn't suck. There's just some bands that give it a bad name (Linkin Park, Korn, Limp Bizkit, Shinedown)

There's plenty of good Nu Metal bands if you're willing to listen to them and stop hating them because someone told you they're not metal enough.
#25
You just can't generalise about genres. Especially one that is so vaguely defined as nu-metal is. Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit appeal to a completely different audience than the Deftones do. The Deftones appeal to a completely different audience than Slipknot does.

Most common criticisms of nu-metal as a whole (as far as I know) are: lack of musicality/complexity, and lack of lyrical debth.

However, the first criticism can really apply to almost any form of pop music, be it nu-metal, pop-punk, post-grunge, or rap, and the second really doesn't apply to some bands (example, the Deftones).
#26
Quote by Jack Off Jill
No.. They're sell outs because Korn took a 500,000 endorsement from PUMA, and wrote a song called A.D.I.D.A.S. Look at their music videos and pictures of them from around the Follow the Leader era. It was like I, Robot. Jon was NEVER seen without a damn ADIDAS shirt on. Limp Bizkit had a similar problem, and although it's not verified, I'm certain they probably got paid to subliminally advertise to kids, too.
Who cares if they took an endorsement deal, as long as the music sounds good? I would've taken a deal like that too if I was in their shoes.


But, most importantly I just want to say Godsmack should drown themselves for refusing to admit they're nothing more than an Alice in Chains cover band. For ages, they wouldn't even admit where the band name came from. They just kept telling the same old story about karma and cold sores. And then they went ahead and named an album very similar to Facelift. And then did the acoustic EP, which is something AIC is known for . It's cool with me if they want to be AIC and follow in their foot steps.. but at least be more open about it. Those drum solos are kinda cool, though.
Godsmack don't sound much like AIC to me. And who cares if they don't want to admit it? You don't listen to a band for their personalities.
Last edited by guitarhero_764 at Dec 13, 2009,
#27
Quote by patsfannumero1
Ok since you're Mr. know-it-all please explain to us, What is heavy metal really about?



Musicianship, spirit, competent songwriting, intelligent lyrics, taste and geniune attitude.

I'm just glad that we don't have to sit through the Numetal craze anymore it was some of the worst shit out there.
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Last edited by Phil Collins at Dec 13, 2009,
#28
Quote by guitarhero_764
Who cares if they took an endorsement deal, as long as the music sounds good? I would've taken a deal like that too if I was in their shoes.

Godsmack don't sound much like AIC to me. And who cares if they don't want to admit it? You don't listen to a band for their personalities.

Well, I didn't say you have to care that they took an endorsement deal, I was just correcting him when he claimed that people falsely accused these bands of selling out. They did. As for the second part, I'm not trying to convince you to not like Godsmack. The question was why I don't like nu-metal, I answered it.

However.. if you'd like to know why I have a problem with Godsmack not being honest. I feel that if someone isn't honest in situations like that, then they probably aren't honest in their art, either. So it's not worth my time. Why would I have a problem with an endorsement deal? Because aside from the fact that it shows a certain amount of disrespect for the fans, especially the younger ones, who will buy something to be like their favorite musicians.. Endorsement deals can lead to certain compromise in art that has nothing to do with the music in the first place. Maybe I'm wrong and you can argue with me all day about it, but I'm not trying to convince you. I'm answering a question that relates to me.
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Last edited by Jack Off Jill at Dec 14, 2009,
#29
Quote by Phil Collins
Musicianship, spirit, competent songwriting, intelligent lyrics, taste and geniune attitude.

You've got to be kidding.

Respectively, for every Cynic there are 2 Venoms, for every Fenriz there are 2 Glen Bentons, for every Symphony X there are 2 Arch Enemy's, for every Nevermore there are 2 Slayers, for every Gojira there are 2 Necrophagists, for every Varg there are 2 Shagraths.

As a genre, metal is just as bad as any other "lesser" genres.
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#30
Quote by dead-fish
You've got to be kidding.

Respectively, for every Cynic there are 2 Venoms, for every Fenriz there are 2 Glen Bentons, for every Symphony X there are 2 Arch Enemy's, for every Nevermore there are 2 Slayers, for every Gojira there are 2 Necrophagists, for every Varg there are 2 Shagraths.

As a genre, metal is just as bad as any other "lesser" genres.

Which ones are the bad ones?
#31
Quote by Jack Off Jill
Well, I didn't say you have to care that they took an endorsement deal, I was just correcting him when he claimed that people falsely accused these bands of selling out. They did. As for the second part, I'm not trying to convince you to not like Godsmack. The question was why I don't like nu-metal, I answered it.
I thought to sell out you had to actually change the sound of your music to achieve fame. Using the rising popularity of your band to score an endorsement deal is just playing your cards right.
#33
Quote by Phil Collins
Musicianship, spirit, competent songwriting, intelligent lyrics, taste and geniune attitude.

Right.
You just cut the Heavy Metal genre into two pieces, and only the smaller one is remaining.

And since taste and competency of songwriting is subjective and intelligence, spirit and attitude are so vague that they could be argued in any given case, you've just eliminated the genre as a whole.
Not to mention that the concept of musicianship is hugely subjective as well. I know jazz musicians who think that everything outside of jazz lacks musicianship. I know hard rock guitarists who think that everything outside of classic rock lacks musicianship.
Last edited by toyboxmonster at Dec 14, 2009,
#34
Quote by Jack Off Jill
Which ones are the bad ones?

I'm way too tired to understand if you actually got my point, so I'll assume you didn't.
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#35
Quote by guitarhero_764
I thought to sell out you had to actually change the sound of your music to achieve fame. Using the rising popularity of your band to score an endorsement deal is just playing your cards right.

Actually, to sell out means you have to do something that is against your ideals. So, if Minor Threat were to suddenly do an interview for Rolling Stone, without RS taking out the cigarette and alcohol ads, then that is selling out. If you don't think it's wrong to change the sound of your music to make money, then you're not selling out. The reason it is selling out to change the sound of your music to achieve fame is because you don't like that music, IE: You're doing something you don't like in order to make money. Now, Korn may not have problem with selling shoes by wearing their clothes at photo shoots, but it still gives much more credence to the theory that they sold out than, "Oh, you just say that cause they're popular." Now, this is a problem because it goes to show.. well, if they're willing to do THAT for money, what else are they willing to do? Now, it's one thing if it's a guitar endorsement. But a shoe endorsement is kind of cutting it pretty close. It makes it seem like this is a band that is willing to do whatever a corporation wants so long as they get money out of it. That could mean changing their music, I dunno. However, like I said.. That's not why I'm not a fan of nu-metal. I just don't like it cause I'm not 12 anymore. No offense to anyone over the age of 12 who still likes it. If it makes you feel better, there are some things I can compliment about the genre.
Quote by dead-fish
I'm way too tired to understand if you actually got my point, so I'll assume you didn't.

Man... No one understands my sense of humor.
Quote by vintage x metal
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Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
Last edited by Jack Off Jill at Dec 14, 2009,
#36
No.. They're sell outs because Korn took a 500,000 endorsement from PUMA, and wrote a song called A.D.I.D.A.S. Look at their music videos and pictures of them from around the Follow the Leader era. It was like I, Robot. Jon was NEVER seen without a damn ADIDAS shirt on. Limp Bizkit had a similar problem, and although it's not verified, I'm certain they probably got paid to subliminally advertise to kids, too.

Although I don't like agreeing with Phil.. I also feel like the lyrics from nu-metal bands sound like cliche angsty thirteen year old girls. The best example would be Staind. Though, I DO think a lot of the nu-metal bands have valid reasons to be unhappy, I also feel like a lot of them manufactured and overplayed how unhappy they actually are, and wrote simplistic lyrics about complex situations and that is what separates the whininess of Elliott Smith/Conor Oberst from the whininess of Aaron Lewis/Jonathan Davis. Thirdly, aside from the drums, I'm not a big fan of most nu-metal music in itself. Though, Korn did sometimes get some pretty cool tones.

But, most importantly I just want to say Godsmack should drown themselves for refusing to admit they're nothing more than an Alice in Chains cover band. For ages, they wouldn't even admit where the band name came from. They just kept telling the same old story about karma and cold sores. And then they went ahead and named an album very similar to Facelift. And then did the acoustic EP, which is something AIC is known for . It's cool with me if they want to be AIC and follow in their foot steps.. but at least be more open about it. Those drum solos are kinda cool, though.


maybe i dont get why it sucks cuz im only 13. but have you heard of today's "rock" and "pop" and "rap"? lmao they're overly happy about partying or dont care about life.
and i dont have anything against rap cuz i love rap, but seriously, especially today's rap is destroying culture. so if you think nu metal sucks, at least its better than today's mainstream music.

im just figuring out this generation gap thing here.
can you all listen to these 3 different music and tell me whats better in order?

2000 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1zVmfan32U

2004 (i think) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ7ZvxXvn90

2009- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgN-iPdZqws
Go Ibanez!
#37
Quote by benmoon
maybe i dont get why it sucks cuz im only 13. but have you heard of today's "rock" and "pop" and "rap"? lmao they're overly happy about partying or dont care about life.
and i dont have anything against rap cuz i love rap, but seriously, especially today's rap is destroying culture. so if you think nu metal sucks, at least its better than today's mainstream music.

im just figuring out this generation gap thing here.
can you all listen to these 3 different music and tell me whats better in order?

2000 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1zVmfan32U

2004 (i think) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ7ZvxXvn90

2009- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgN-iPdZqws

I don't like any of them. So none of them are better worse than the other. I just put them in the, "I don't like this category." A lot of talented musicians are in that category, too. Like John Frusciante/RHCP. But, like I said... I do respect some nu-metal albums. Just not very many of them. I think Follow the Leader was cool. I'll never say that I don't. Jon put more effort into his lyrics than a lot of other nu-metal acts, the guitars sounded more interesting even if they weren't that difficult to play, but they had some pretty interested textures, like the guitars to Pretty, and I think David was a good drummer. I don't listen to it anymore, but I respect it. And don't take the age comment to heart, I meant that I liked it when I was younger and then grew out of it. It happens to everybody.

I think with me a lot of it has to do with the fact that I need more variety. When I put on a nu-metal album, all the songs tend to follow a pretty similar formula as the last one. My favorite musicians are Tom Waits and Frank Zappa. If you listen to their songs, they tend to switch genres a lot from song to song. So, there's that. Also, I think that it's much easier to understand the emotions in nu-metal, because it's pretty much all anger or sadness, and it's just obviously angry music. As I got older, I needed a little more than that. And I needed it to be a little more subtle.
Quote by vintage x metal
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Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
#38
youre right about that. modern rock do lack in variety.
and you're also right about the angry music.
i just started a new thread about modern music. go check it out.
Go Ibanez!
#39
Quote by benmoon
youre right about that. modern rock do lack in variety.

Or else you haven't heard enough modern rock -_-
#40
Quote by Jack Off Jill

Man... No one understands my sense of humor.

To be fair, I'm not really trying.
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