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#2
So somebody finally quantified the fact that lawyers and bankers are worthless.
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#4
I'm a cleaner, and society just f*cking loves me. They show it to me by laughing at me when they see me work and by paying me 5 euros an hour.
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#5
Quote by Z_cup_boy
If they don't do their job, I guess so?

If they didn't do their jobs their net worth to society would increase.
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#6
"The point we are making is more fundamental - that there should be a relationship between what we are paid and the value our work generates for society. We've found a way to calculate that," she said.


"Pay levels often don't reflect the true value that is being created. As a society, we need a pay structure which rewards those jobs that create most societal benefit rather than those that generate profits at the expense of society and the environment".


If only there was a term for what they're clocking onto here ... nope, can't think of one.
#7
"Hospital cleaners play a vital role, the study found."

Gee, ya think?
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#8
Quote by boycew02
"Hospital cleaners play a vital role, the study found."

Gee, ya think?

They would, if there were enough of them. And if more nurses cleaned up after themselves instead of thinking it was beneath them, somehow. Doctors, too, I guess.
#9
The problem is that without the bankers and the banking system we wouldn't be able to transfer they £1 the earn, nevermind the £10 benefit they produce.
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#10
Quote by Lemoninfluence
The problem is that without the bankers and the banking system we wouldn't be able to transfer they £1 the earn, nevermind the £10 benefit they produce.

So the best thing to do would be to pay bankers more, thus reducing the ratio of money destroyed to money earned.
#11
I knew a cleaner who used to touch kids. Just saying...

And yes, he was tender.
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#12
Quote by Venice King
I knew a cleaner who used to touch kids. Just saying...

And yes, he was tender.

He probably had very soft hands.
Oh, you wouldn't want an angel watching over
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#13
Quote by Lemoninfluence
The problem is that without the bankers and the banking system we wouldn't be able to transfer they £1 the earn, nevermind the £10 benefit they produce.


Hmm, it wasn't transferring wages that caused problems.
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#14
Quote by aaciseric
If only there was a term for what they're clocking onto here ... nope, can't think of one.


i know, if only there was some kind of system that gave thinks a value based on their social worth rather than their market value
#15
Quote by meh!
Hmm, it wasn't transferring wages that caused problems.

yeah I know. however, you get rid of the bankers, you lose the banking system.

you lose the banking system you lose the ability to manage large companies (and government's) finances. If you can only have payment of wages locally through cash in hand transfer then you basically screw the state (lack of taxation), the economy (large companies collapse) and the people (who lost out through the large companies collapsing).
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#16
Damn straight cleaners are worth more to society than bankers - the bourgeoisification of the West is vastly to its detriment. The fact that bankers have the gall to suggest a return to 'business as usual' whilst casually pocketing billions is truly horrifying - evidently they have no shame and no moral compass whatsoever. These people are nothing more than leeches and drains on society. The rich do NOT make society richer - they make themselves richer. We've lost sight of the true wealth which we possess - that of human diversity and wealth of mind. Banking should be a public service, frankly, provided by state-ensured institutions. The kind of meta-capitalism laid bare by its failure in the last few years has been a shocking failure in which we are all implicated.

Vote early and vote often for a big change. God knows we won't see justice in our lifetime without a seachange.

Quote by Lemoninfluence
yeah I know. however, you get rid of the bankers, you lose the banking system.

you lose the banking system you lose the ability to manage large companies (and government's) finances. If you can only have payment of wages locally through cash in hand transfer then you basically screw the state (lack of taxation), the economy (large companies collapse) and the people (who lost out through the large companies collapsing).

It's unfortunately that kind of argument that allows bankers to justify their continuing huge salaries to the nation. Banking does not require disgustingly socially irresponsible bankers - if huge salaries are what these leeches desire, let them go! Empty threats hold no terror from a parasite on society.
Last edited by Kumanji at Dec 14, 2009,
#17
Quote by Kumanji
Damn straight cleaners are worth more to society than bankers - the bourgeoisification of the West is vastly to its detriment. The fact that bankers have the gall to suggest a return to 'business as usual' whilst casually pocketing billions is truly horrifying - evidently they have no shame and no moral compass whatsoever. These people are nothing more than leeches and drains on society. The rich do NOT make society richer - they make themselves richer. We've lost sight of the true wealth which we possess - that of human diversity and wealth of mind. Banking should be a public service, frankly, provided by state-ensured institutions. The kind of meta-capitalism laid bare by its failure in the last few years has been a shocking failure in which we are all implicated.

Vote early and vote often for a big change. God knows we won't see justice in our lifetime without a seachange.


It's unfortunately that kind of argument that allows bankers to justify their continuing huge salaries to the nation. Banking does not require disgustingly socially irresponsible bankers - if huge salaries are what these leeches desire, let them go! Empty threats hold no terror from a parasite on society.

I've lost count of the number of people who have said if the bankers want to quit over the bonuses thing, just let them go.
Sadly, I think Darling is too much of a pussy to tell them not to let the door hit them on the arse on the way out.
#18
Quote by MightyAl
I've lost count of the number of people who have said if the bankers want to quit over the bonuses thing, just let them go.
Sadly, I think Darling is too much of a pussy to tell them not to let the door hit them on the arse on the way out.

Aye. This government is still wedded to the Thatcherite idea that we can rely on self-interested wankers, sorry BANKERS, to buoy up the economy. I'm amazed it's gone on this long.
#19
I love how Fred Goodwin got that enormous payout when leaving RBS. He basically got paid millions not to run a bank, which made me think. I don't run a bank. I'm really good at not running a bank! Where the hell is my payout?
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#20
Citi bank announced today that they are paying back 20billion in bailout funds today. The first day restrictions go into full force on executive compensation for companies that owe bailout money.
Coincidence? I don't think so. Plus the fact that they were able to go from the supposed brink of bankruptcy to generating 20billion + in revenue in a year. Obscene.
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#22
Quote by Craigo
I reckon we should start considering people with 'lower' jobs far more than they're worth in capital

You've hit the nail on the head, lad.

As Marx said, capitalism reduces all human interaction to nothing more than a 'cash nexus'. We're paying the price for that already, as indeed millions have been every day of their lives.
#24
Quote by captaincrunk
I don't really see the problem. The cleaners are doing something literally anyone can do. Lets see those half wits go to law school, then we'll talk money.

But are they doing something that anyone WOULD do?
I mean, would you really choose to spend 40 hours a week cleaning up blood, piss, puke and shit in a hospital, if you could possibly do anything else?
#25
Quote by MightyAl
But are they doing something that anyone WOULD do?
I mean, would you really choose to spend 40 hours a week cleaning up blood, piss, puke and shit in a hospital, if you could possibly do anything else?

I already work doing those things for 9 USD an hour. Its significantly more than minimum wage. When I complete law school six years from now, I expect to make much more.
#26
the analysis of the tax accountat was quite funny. A tax accountat helps you only paying what you own to the society. They don't take away money from society, they help people, which are part of the society, to only give money that they effectively own to the government.

The result of their job isn't to "take money away" from society, but to assure a fair distribution of money inside the society as the law of said society decided it.
If they where so biased on the whole study, I'm not even going to consider the results.
Last edited by Djaydjay at Dec 14, 2009,
#27
Quote by captaincrunk
I don't really see the problem. The cleaners are doing something literally anyone can do. Lets see those half wits go to law school, then we'll talk money.

I've met many a lawyer that were as dumb as a pile of dog shit.
Education =/= intelligence.
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#28
Quote by captaincrunk
I already work doing those things for 9 USD an hour. Its significantly more than minimum wage. When I complete law school six years from now, I expect to make much more.

Yes, but you'll be being a c*nt for a living.
#29
Quote by Jackal58
I've met many a lawyer that were as dumb as a pile of dog shit.
Education =/= intelligence.

But education does equal time invested in job performance. And in the case of law school, its a significant investment that deserves a higher wage.
#30
Quote by MightyAl
Yes, but you'll be being a c*nt for a living.


But a wealthy one.
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#31
Quote by Lemoninfluence
yeah I know. however, you get rid of the bankers, you lose the banking system.

you lose the banking system you lose the ability to manage large companies (and government's) finances. If you can only have payment of wages locally through cash in hand transfer then you basically screw the state (lack of taxation), the economy (large companies collapse) and the people (who lost out through the large companies collapsing).


Yes but I don't see why we can't not have the type of banking system this article is talking about and continue to pay wages.
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#32
Quote by Djaydjay
the analysis of the tax accountat was quite funny. A tax accountat helps you only paying what you own to the society. They don't take away money from society, they help people, which are part of the society, to only give money that they effectively own to the government.

The result of their job isn't to "take money away" from society, but to assure a fair distribution of money inside the society as the law of said society decided it.
If they where so biased on the whole study, I'm not even going to consider the results.

That's exactly what it is. Why do we need a tax code that needs tax accountants?
So people that can afford tax accountants don't pay taxes.
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#33
Quote by MightyAl
Yes, but you'll be being a c*nt for a living.

There are other law students on UG you c*nt. Go take them on and see how the community reacts. You only do this to me because you know you can get away with it. Well piss off.
#34
Quote by MightyAl
Yes, but you'll be being a c*nt for a living.

I don't see how being a lawyer is being a ****. Your supposed to help establish justice, which IMO is a good thing.

Now if you're speaking about a corrupt lawyer, I could understand what you mean, but that's a personal choice.
That's exactly what it is. Why do we need a tax code that needs tax accountants?
So people that can afford tax accountants don't pay taxes.

A tax accountant is supposed to help you pay what you legally own to society, inside the limit of what has been considered your "duty" toward society. Their are so many complicated laws and exception that without his help, you will pay more than what you actually should pay.

Now, these guy know the system good enough to get out of legal limits and to break the rules without getting caught, but again, we're speaking in this case about corruption and not the "usual" tax accountant.
Last edited by Djaydjay at Dec 14, 2009,
#35
Quote by Jackal58
That's exactly what it is. Why do we need a tax code that needs tax accountants?
So people that can afford tax accountants don't pay taxes.

I think that the tax code was there before tax accountants, not the other way around. Just pointing that out, it didn't start this way, that's how it evolved. You can devolve it back too.
#36
Quote by captaincrunk
But education does equal time invested in job performance. And in the case of law school, its a significant investment that deserves a higher wage.

So your 6 year law degree is inherently worth more than my 4 year engineering degree?
It's your ability to perform in your chosen profession that will dictate your earning power not the fact that you have a degree. You'll make a great lawyer. Your sense of entitlement is firmly entrenched.
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#37
Quote by captaincrunk
There are other law students on UG you c*nt. Go take them on and see how the community reacts. You only do this to me because you know you can get away with it. Well piss off.

No, I do it because I was expecting a response telling me that you were going to be doing something worthwhile.
It's good to know you seem to aspire to ambulance chasing, and hate yourself as a result.
#38
Might I draw your attention to the study in which 15 traders and a cat were each given $10,000 dollars to invest on the stock markets? The traders all used their supposed expertise to invest as acutely as they could. The cat made decisions based upon walking through different coloured catflatps, each corresponding to a different stock choice.

The cat came third out of sixteen.
#39
Quote by captaincrunk
I don't really see the problem. The cleaners are doing something literally anyone can do. Lets see those half wits go to law school, then we'll talk money.


The fact that 'anyone can do it' doesn't mean it has any less worth. To say that intelligent people deserve more money than people who provide absolutely vital services to society is incredibly elitist and causes masses of wage in-equality. We need to work against plutocracy, not embrace it.
#40
Quote by Lemoninfluence
yeah I know. however, you get rid of the bankers, you lose the banking system.

you lose the banking system you lose the ability to manage large companies (and government's) finances. If you can only have payment of wages locally through cash in hand transfer then you basically screw the state (lack of taxation), the economy (large companies collapse) and the people (who lost out through the large companies collapsing).

Yep. No banks=no taxation, so if you're into anarchy I guess this a good idea.
Rather than being wealth creators bankers are being handsomely rewarded for bringing the global financial system to the brink of collapse

Paid between £500,000 and £80m a year, leading bankers destroy £7 of value for every pound they generate

Without bankers, there wouldn't be a global financial system, yet alone a national financial system for individual countries. That's one poorly written article
Last edited by pak1351 at Dec 14, 2009,
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