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#2
I hope I would've done the same thing in his situation.

Edit: Although maybe not as hard as to break a cricket bat in three places.
Last edited by Joemofo at Dec 15, 2009,
#3
I was completely against the jail sentence until I read brain injury...
I think it is important to note that the burglar was running away. Attacking him at this point is not defense.
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#4
Similar things happen sometimes in New Zealand, they're usually let off because of self-defence and manslaughter.

chedit: I should read the article more carefully next time

THAT is not self-defence.
Last edited by chaoticfables at Dec 15, 2009,
#5
I kind of sympathize with them a bit but after the imminent danger ceased to exist their attack should have too. Don't know that I wouldn't have done the same though.
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#8
Chasing someone down, then hitting that person across the head with a cricket bat so hard that it breaks into three pieces an causing permanent brain damage is not self defense. The law is there to punish and rehabilitate. Where is the rehabilitation from permanent brain damage? Sure, this may be a repeat offender, but then sentencing will take that into consideration.
#9
Yeah, poor ol' burglarizing repeat offender
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#11
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Chasing someone down, then hitting that person across the head with a cricket bat so hard that it breaks into three pieces an causing permanent brain damage is not self defense. The law is there to punish and rehabilitate. Where is the rehabilitation from permanent brain damage?


When you're hopped up on adrenaline and scared shitless, let me know how clear your thinking would be. Hindsight is 20/20, as always.
#12
Don't rob people and you won't get brain damage from a blunt impact.

I think just about any self defense should be able to be used in a deadly situation. Honestly, I don't care if I'll go to jail, but I'm going to shoot a murderers dick off if he tries to harm me/my family. Teach him to not try to rob and threaten to kill again.

It isn't like he pushed the brothers at a bar or something. He threatened to kill them. (The bar situation: that wouldn't be OK to blast somebody's brains out with a bat, for it is a scuffle, not a life or death situation. I know the line is thin, but it seems obvious in some situations).
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#13
Who is to say he wouldn't have killed them if someone hadn't went for help? Maybe they went a little bit too far but at the end of the day people who rob houses and threaten to kill people really deserve what they get.
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#14
inb4 olololol Hussein


he tied up the dudes family and threatened to kill them. In my opinion, theres something wrong with you if you DON'T chase them down and beat the shit out of them. And if they do hurt your family, kill him.

EDIT: take it for what you want, but thats what I'd do.
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Last edited by Aerokizzombie at Dec 15, 2009,
#15
malicious revenge.

the person who escaped never went to the police, they went straight to the brothers house to get backup to chase them down. There was never any intent to defend themselves and/or their property, it was always about making them regret they'd ever broken in in the first place.

has anyone here ever managed to break a cricket bat?

Quote by blackthought
The burglar gets a two-year "supervision order", his victims get prison time. Does "heat of the moment" mean anything in the UK legal system?

Jesus fucking Christ.

I think you'll find a lot of things are done in the heat of the moment. There's no way we can let people get away with that. a ton of murderers would still be roaming the street if we took that viewpoint.
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Last edited by Lemoninfluence at Dec 15, 2009,
#16
Not self defence. Taking a bat to someones head when they are running away is not defending yourself from anything. Sure, they were scared and in an intense situation, but that still doesn't make it self defence.
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#17
i say you can do anything in your power to defend yourself, that includes killing someone if needed.
#18
They basically reduced themselves to the level of the criminals who attempted to rob them. I have little sympathy for either side.
#19
Quote by -tempest-
i say you can do anything in your power to defend yourself, that includes killing someone if needed.

at the point backup arrived, there was no danger to protect from. They still decided to chase them down and break a cricket bat using his skull and other assorted bones.
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#20
Quote by Lemoninfluence
malicious revenge.

the person who escaped never went to the police, they went straight to the friends house to get backup to chase them down. There was never any intent to defend themselves and/or their property, it was always about making them regret they'd ever broken in in the first place.

has anyone here ever managed to break a cricket bat?


I think you'll find a lot of things are done in the heat of the moment. There's no way we can let people get away with that. a ton of murderers would still be roaming the street if we took that viewpoint.


Absolutely agreed. When you start chasing someone down with a weapon, there is intent to do something, whether to intimidate, injure or worse. They've caused a man permanent injury due to their recklessness, which is one of the possible mens rea, if I remember rightly.
#21
Quote by -tempest-
i say you can do anything in your power to defend yourself, that includes killing someone if needed.

Except this was no longer defence. It was revenge. If they had chased him down and hit his knees with the bat to subdue him until the police arrived, I would understand it, but reducing the man's head to a pulp is not self defence, it is brutal and malicious revenge.
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#22
Quote by Lemoninfluence
malicious revenge.

the person who escaped never went to the police, they went straight to the brothers house to get backup to chase them down. There was never any intent to defend themselves and/or their property, it was always about making them regret they'd ever broken in in the first place.

has anyone here ever managed to break a cricket bat?


I think you'll find a lot of things are done in the heat of the moment. There's no way we can let people get away with that. a ton of murderers would still be roaming the street if we took that viewpoint.

This is basically what I was trying to say. You said it alot better though
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#23
Pretty malicious I reckon. Although if I were in that situation I would probably break a bone or two (not the head).
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#24
They went too far.

If they beat the guy half to death as he was carrying out the crime in the home, I would say it was self defence, even if the criminal died as a result.

Since the criminal ran away from the scene and the threat was no longer imminent, the act of chasing him down and beating him half to death and causing brain damage means it is no longer self defence, and only revenge. They should have got a lot longer than 30 months.
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#26
Play the race card!!
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#27
Quote by Lemoninfluence
malicious revenge.

the person who escaped never went to the police, they went straight to the brothers house to get backup to chase them down. There was never any intent to defend themselves and/or their property, it was always about making them regret they'd ever broken in in the first place.

has anyone here ever managed to break a cricket bat?


I think you'll find a lot of things are done in the heat of the moment. There's no way we can let people get away with that. a ton of murderers would still be roaming the street if we took that viewpoint.




I can see that they must've been terrified as it happened but the chasing down is just crazy. The fact one of the burglars has done the same thing 50 times seems pretty bad to me.

Yes I've broken two one took three goes with an axe, the other some serious batting by me
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#28
I'd have given the brothers a medal and given the burglar another beating.
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#29
"This case is a tragedy for you and your families," the judge told Munir Hussain. "Sadly, I have no doubt that my public duty requires me to impose immediate prison sentences of some length upon you. This is in order to reflect the serious consequences of your violent acts and intent and to make it absolutely clear that, whatever the circumstances, persons cannot take the law into their own hands, or carry out revenge attacks upon a person who has offended them."


I'd have to agree that the judge in this case is right.
#30
Quote by Kapps
I'd have to agree that the judge in this case is right.


It is, however, perfectly acceptable to break into a building, tie up the occupants, and threaten to kill them. Especially when you have dozens and dozens of prior arrests.

This is England.
#31
Quote by blackthought
It is, however, perfectly acceptable to break into a building, tie up the occupants, and threaten to kill them. Especially when you have dozens and dozens of prior arrests.

This is England.


Are you trying to say that the person who attacked (and yes attacked, it wasn't self-defense at that point) him knew his criminal record?
#32
Quote by blackthought
The burglar gets a two-year "supervision order", his victims get prison time. Does "heat of the moment" mean anything in the UK legal system?

Jesus fucking Christ.


The burglar also gets permanent brain damage.

The victims [well, only one of them actually took part, the other wasn't involved in the initla incident] come out completely unharmed.

Quote by blackthought
It is, however, perfectly acceptable to break into a building, tie up the occupants, and threaten to kill them. Especially when you have dozens and dozens of prior arrests.

This is England.




Or maybe, because the injuries to the burglar is more then any prison time will do to punish him.
And it pretty much prevents him from committing crimes again.

This is England, where punishment is relative to the situation.*

*Hint: He was viciously attacks and left severely damaged. I hope you get that now
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Last edited by Simsimius at Dec 15, 2009,
#33
Quote by Kapps
Are you trying to say that the person who attacked (and yes attacked, it wasn't self-defense at that point) him knew his criminal record?


Irrelevant. All he knew was that this man was apparently willing to kill him moments prior.
#34
Quote by Lemoninfluence
at the point backup arrived, there was no danger to protect from. They still decided to chase them down and break a cricket bat using his skull and other assorted bones.

i said if needed, i didn't say whether in the this case it was or was not, relax.
#35
Quote by blackthought
Irrelevant. All he knew was that this man was apparently willing to kill him moments prior.

So as he was fleeing, they beat him until he was immobile, then opted to beat him again until he began lose brain function. Sounds pretty vengeful to me.
#36
Quote by GC Shred Off
So as he was fleeing, they beat him until he was immobile, then opted to beat him again until he began lose brain function. Sounds pretty vengeful to me.


Sounds like the act of a man who's not in his right mind to me.
#37
Quote by blackthought
Sounds like the act of a man who's not in his right mind to me.

I very much agree. It also doesn't sound like self-defense.
#38
i'd say it's malicious revenge, but i don't really know how I feel about the whole thing...

i'd say i don't agree with the sentencing for either party. i'd still give the bat-wielders jailtime, just not as much and the fact that the burglars were repeat offenders makes things more difficult.

idk, whatever.
#39
Quote by GC Shred Off
I very much agree. It also doesn't sound like self-defense.


He was terrified for his life. Such feelings can linger for quite a while after the threat disappears. To hold him responsible for his acts here is comparable to holding a schizophrenic responsible for his. Neither are considering consequences or the very concepts of right and wrong.
#40
he'd be lucky if i didn't kill him. once someone breaks into my house and threatens my family, it's over for one of us. has nothing to do with 'being macho.' i'd like to be reasonable in my force, but i know once i feel that threatened i essentially do rage and they'd better watch the eff out.
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