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#1
anyone down?

[edit]
Rules: Song length doesn't matter. Most of the song MUST be in an odd time signature, I'd if there weren't any in 3/4 because its pretty common. I say most of the song because I know sometimes you need a couple of those common time transitions between riffs. I want to make this mostly a rock competition, but any genre is fine as long as it is in an odd time signature. Submit in this thread by New Years Day. Reply if you want to become a judge.

WE STILL NEED JUDGES!
Judges should critique based off the songs coherence, flow, originality, and use of odd time signatures. if we do not find judges by new years i am going make the judging open to the forum. one vote per person and you may not vote for your own piece.

Contestants:
cullanrocks
jimmyled
Kublai Khan
ch715dallat
juckfush
defiance64
Carl6661
MapOfYourHead
johnyq10
Nemesis@Germany
destroy_techno
dervishguitar


Judges:
juckfush
cullanrocks
MetalGS3SE
champayne
Last edited by cullanrocks at Dec 31, 2009,
#3
Quote by cullanrocks
anyone down?


rules?... ideas?... goal?...
Quote by theogonia777
and then there's free jazz, which isn't even for musicians.

Quote by Born A Fool
As my old guitar teacher once said: Metal really comes from classical music. The only difference is pinch harmonics, double bass, and lyrics about killing goats.
#4
i guess ill give it a shot, but is there any rules as to type of music? or like dream floyd said is there any ideas or goals?
#5
Define an "odd time signature".
Quote by MoogleRancha

You sir, are a genius.

I salute you.

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The bestowing of this thread on my life is yours. Thank you, Benjabenja.
#6
Quote by Benjabenja
Define an "odd time signature".


anything from 8/8 to 23/32 I'm assuming (8/8 is different from 4/4 in the fact that it has 2 dotted 1/4 notes and one normal 1/4) \m/
Quote by theogonia777
and then there's free jazz, which isn't even for musicians.

Quote by Born A Fool
As my old guitar teacher once said: Metal really comes from classical music. The only difference is pinch harmonics, double bass, and lyrics about killing goats.
#7
Quote by Benjabenja
Define an "odd time signature".

Yeah "odd" is subjective to different people, so could vary from person to person, need to be more specific
#8
First you gotta give some rules.
And the oddest of time signatures can not be made in guitar pro. Believe it or not, Things like 11/12 are real time sigatures.
#9
the whole song should be in an odd time signature. 3,5,7,9,11 whatever. preferably not 3 because it is pretty common. any genre is acceptable but i was hoping we could all try and write songs that flow very well in odd time signatures (ex: Radiohead's Morning Bell or 2+2=5 or Thrice's Firebreather, The Whaler, Hoods on Peregrine).

id prefer if there werent any mathcoreish songs just because they sound like garbage a lot (unless you are going for Tool or Protest the Hero-esque which i love). music is subjective though, just submit a song that everyone will wish they wrote.
#10
Quote by Macabre_Turtle
First you gotta give some rules.
And the oddest of time signatures can not be made in guitar pro. Believe it or not, Things like 11/12 are real time sigatures.


So it's like 11 triplet 1/8 notes? Badass
Quote by theogonia777
and then there's free jazz, which isn't even for musicians.

Quote by Born A Fool
As my old guitar teacher once said: Metal really comes from classical music. The only difference is pinch harmonics, double bass, and lyrics about killing goats.
#11
How do I post a song? I just made a short 86 bar song...
Quote by theogonia777
and then there's free jazz, which isn't even for musicians.

Quote by Born A Fool
As my old guitar teacher once said: Metal really comes from classical music. The only difference is pinch harmonics, double bass, and lyrics about killing goats.
Last edited by Dream Floyd at Dec 17, 2009,
#12
Quote by Dream Floyd
So it's like 11 triplet 1/8 notes? Badass


Well, you could think of it that way, but if the rhythm was made of 11 notes of the same interval, then it would more appropriately just be called eight notes, 11/8. However, if it was something like, quarter note, eighth note, quarter note, eight note, triplet eight, triplet eight, that would be 11/12. And You can't type that into guitar pro, and I always hear timing like that in my head.

I think I'm gonna start referring to triplet eights as 12th notes, just to confuse people. They ARE technically 12th notes...
Last edited by Macabre_Turtle at Dec 17, 2009,
#13
Alrighty. I'm not going for this. I drew the line at an 11 1/2 bar blues a long time ago. However, if anyone wants to hear an odd one done really well, look up Yellow Christian by It Bites on youtube. That has a sequence of 13:8 with reversed emphasis on the second time round. Then convince your friendly drummer its the latest trend!
Good luck guys.
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#14
Quote by Lurcher
Alrighty. I'm not going for this. I drew the line at an 11 1/2 bar blues a long time ago. However, if anyone wants to hear an odd one done really well, look up Yellow Christian by It Bites on youtube. That has a sequence of 13:8 with reversed emphasis on the second time round. Then convince your friendly drummer its the latest trend!
Good luck guys.


Pretty nifty stuff...
Quote by theogonia777
and then there's free jazz, which isn't even for musicians.

Quote by Born A Fool
As my old guitar teacher once said: Metal really comes from classical music. The only difference is pinch harmonics, double bass, and lyrics about killing goats.
#16
I've got one that cycles through 7/8, 6/8, 5/8, 2/8 and 4/4, but it's a bit of a mess with all the layers (polyrhythms, polymeters, counter melodies, wankery). Some of the signatures could be combined (there are a few 5/8 to 2/8 phrases - 7/8), but they're really there to imply accents and whatnot. It's largely unfinished - weak transitions, very short length - but is anyone interested?

[shameful attempt to receive bumpage] Also, the first piece in my sig uses a 13/16 polymeter, and the other shifts between 7/8 and 4/4, if anyone wants to check them out. [/shameful attempt to receive bumpage.]
Last edited by juckfush at Dec 17, 2009,
#17
This is stupid. I think odd time signatures should be used if the riff is written that way, not being forced upon just to be 'tech' or whatever.
#18
I mapped mine out naturally. The 7/8 to 6/8 complimented the accents and dynamics I was opting for, with shifts in meter to change the feel and create tension/release, the 13/16 came out as a natural groove which was formulated into a melody, and the 7/8 to 4/4 idea worked because of the harmonic and rhythmic phrasing.

Admittedly, writing in odd meters for the sake of it is rather pointless, but as bizarre as some may seem to one person, they may be created and heard as completely naturally for another - whether they have studied the technique or naturally write as such.

EDIT: And besides, unless you practice implementing odd meters (that is, through studying dynamics, accents, and melodic implications in music), they'll be never be integrated within your own music. Just as any other technique, compositional, theoretical, or practical, using odd meters should be practiced if it is to be used effectively. (I understand there are exceptions, with some ideas spontaneously occurring and happening to be in odd meters, but understanding comes from study and application).
Last edited by juckfush at Dec 17, 2009,
#20
Eh. i'd give it a shot.


I'd lose.


But a shot nonetheless.
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#21
Quote by juckfush
I mapped mine out naturally. The 7/8 to 6/8 complimented the accents and dynamics I was opting for, with shifts in meter to change the feel and create tension/release, the 13/16 came out as a natural groove which was formulated into a melody, and the 7/8 to 4/4 idea worked because of the harmonic and rhythmic phrasing.

Admittedly, writing in odd meters for the sake of it is rather pointless, but as bizarre as some may seem to one person, they may be created and heard as completely naturally for another - whether they have studied the technique or naturally write as such.

EDIT: And besides, unless you practice implementing odd meters (that is, through studying dynamics, accents, and melodic implications in music), they'll be never be integrated within your own music. Just as any other technique, compositional, theoretical, or practical, using odd meters should be practiced if it is to be used effectively. (I understand there are exceptions, with some ideas spontaneously occurring and happening to be in odd meters, but understanding comes from study and application).


Yeah I agree with pretty much what your saying. Like some riffs I write are in odd time sigs cause thats just the way they work out. But when someone sits down and says, 'okay, im going to write a riff in 11/8'. Thats what I think is stupid.
#22
Quote by JesseBlanchard
Yeah I agree with pretty much what your saying. Like some riffs I write are in odd time sigs cause thats just the way they work out. But when someone sits down and says, 'okay, im going to write a riff in 11/8'. Thats what I think is stupid.

Totally fair enough Though I think it's fair to take a thought like that, and rather say ''Okay, I'm going to try to make 11/8 groove, or have such-and-such feel'', to make a test or experiment out of it; something dun and refreshing!
In the end, it's just another concept of and method for writing music, and as with any method, it should be used appropriately - not that it should be necessarily limited in the ways it can be used, but done so tastefully and musically. It's just to my belief that these sort of techniques should be practiced and studied, so that a musician or writer can get a better grasp of their functions.
And hey, if this competition goes well and pieces are uploaded, we may be able to work together and help each other out. I for one would advocate users to explain how they wrote the piece, if dynamics/accenting/melodic contours affected the process or result, or even just provide a little bit of information. It's just that that way, we can all get something out of this, and use different techniques in our writing.
Last edited by juckfush at Dec 17, 2009,
#25
could my 11/8 groove post spawned this thread to emerge? if i can explain my justification i really just sat down and wanted to try to make an 11/8 time sig flow and be able to groove...and i think what stemmed my interest in different time signatures is that i often write and think of riffs or grooves in like 7/8 or 5/4 so anything but 4/4 and 3/4 has always interested me..
#26
This thread is inspired by the Classical competition.
EDIT: Got a first draft of a composition. I think I'll remove the Harmonic Minor melody though.
Also I suggest making a nice banner for the winner to put in his profile ("Winner of the 2009 T&C Irregular Beat Competition" or something along those lines).
Attachments:
Composition 2.gp5
Last edited by jimmyled at Dec 18, 2009,
#28
Quote by Kublai Khan
Done.

That wasn't such an Irregular Time Signature... But it was very... Avant-Garde...
#29
its stupid to have the song purely in a single odd time signature, itll never flow correctly like that anyhoo, heres a song im writing with plenty of time signatures in it, and the passages that are in 4/4 or 6/4 like the intro and teh long clean section are actually in an odd time sig due to the irregular number of bars....
Attachments:
Prog1.gp4
#31
^ That post is completely irrelevant, so what if 9/8 is 4.5/4 its still 9/8 and im pretty sure everyone can work it out. you dont need to know theory to work that out, you just need to not be retarded at simple math
#32
9/8 is 4.5/4? Actually that's just retarded, and it doesn't make sense, 9/8 is three dotted quarter notes, 4.5/4 would be 4 quarter notes and a half, and 9/8 isn't technically an odd time signature, 11/8 is an odd time signature, 15/16 is an odd time signature, 27/32, and stuff like that, 3/2, 3/4, 4/4, 6/8, 8/8 and 9/8, even 12/8, are relatively normal time signatures.
#33
Here's mine. Some of the time signature changes are unnecessary, but they really serve the purpose to imply accenting and independent phrases.

The piece is based entirely around the first phrase, which came from a jam session at school in August, when our music class played 'Africa' by Toto. A while before, I started working on touchstyle tapping, so I decided to take the progression and base a triad arpeggio sequence on the chord progression. So I took it home, added some flurries and melodic tones to break the monotony of the triad (I ended up using the 4th, augmented 5th, 6th and 9th harmonies together with the standard minor third and fifth) and ended up with this meter crossing madness.
The modulation came spontaneously, but the syncopation of the drumming, and counter rhythms/melodies were more formulated. I tried to pick out dynamic areas I wanted to accent, and based melodies around that (through the keys). The synth bass accents these dynamic points, too, and the rhythm guitar fills in some gaps and reinforces the tonal centre of each phrase (root to augmented fifth).

It is quite busy, and I've been meaning to really sit down and spend some time breaking it down and subtracting from all the unnecessary layers, but on the other hand I've thought of having a prelude to this, as part of a fuller song, and have this big cluster act as a variation on that.
Anyways, hopefully some of you will like it, and I hope the explanation has helped somewhat. Thanks to anyone who read it, and sorry if it came off as pretentious or arrogant.



EDIT: *Links removed for Submission Thread*
Last edited by juckfush at Jan 4, 2010,
#34
To touch on the subject of odd time signatures, I don't think sitting and saying, for example, 'I'm going to write a riff in 11/8' is neccissarily a bad thing, anymore then placing limits on yourself is a bad thing. sometimes, thats what I have to do to get out of a slump. Maybe thats just me. But its definitely part of the learning experience. For instance, the song I write using the previously mentioned riff might not be my best, and it might turn out sounding forced, however, in challenging myself like that, I managed to establish a whole new concept of rhythm for myself and I'd end up using that later, when the time was right, and the song was going in that direction.

someone might've said all this already, I honestly didn't read all the replies, I just wanted to throw my 2cents in on the subject.

I might be interested in participating, I'll see what I can come up with.
#37
Quote by frankibo
haha i loved juckfush's compisition!


Same, it's weird as hell but it's actually really good.
I deeply regret the 6661 in my username. Siiiigh. Damn you, 14 year old me, you edgy little bastard.
#38
Quote by Carl6661
Same, it's weird as hell but it's actually really good.


yeah it is really weird, but those keys are immense and the riff is really catchy, ive been singing it my head all day
and the dancey bass bit is cool too
Last edited by frankibo at Dec 19, 2009,
#39
Thanks heaps guys! It really means a lot to me that you enjoyed it - I've been smiling from ear to ear since I saw your comments, so thanks again!

Just out of curiosity, are you guys thinking of uploading some pieces too? I've seen plenty of your pieces Carl, and frankibo's post-hardcore piece, and I'd really love to see the two of you churn something out. The pieces uploaded so far in this thread are great.
Last edited by juckfush at Dec 19, 2009,
#40
Quote by juckfush
Thanks heaps guys! It really means a lot to me that you enjoyed it - I've been smiling from ear to ear since I saw your comments, so thanks again!

Just out of curiosity, are you guys thinking of uploading some pieces too? I've seen plenty of your pieces Carl, and frankibo's post-hardcore piece, and I'd really love to see the two of you churn something out. The pieces uploaded so far in this thread are great.


I might have a piss about in Guitar Pro later, yeah. If I get anything decent, I may aswell chuck it up.
I deeply regret the 6661 in my username. Siiiigh. Damn you, 14 year old me, you edgy little bastard.
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