#1
So heres a thing ive been working on for ages, still not finished because i just dont have the time these days, but im getting it done bit by bit, have a listen tell me what you think or if you have any suggestions thatd be sick.

btbam, arusha accord influenced. just dont really know where to take it after the second long clean section.
Attachments:
Prog1.zip
#2
it was ok, but i'm not a fan of mathcore really.
i mean, it was incredibly well written and must have taken a while, but i like it less then it should be liked because of my afformentioned aversion to mathcore
#5
Decent ideas plagued by the unfortunate new wave of "stopstartcore". Stop making your drums go in 50 thousand different beats per bar and tone down the stopping and starting with every riff and you'll be onto something solid.
#6
I'm sort of on par with Magero on this one. There are some solid melodic ideas - the intro particularly could be amazing if tweaked a little - but none of them are really given time to develop solid grooves or placement in the framework of the song.

With the intro particularly, while there are some recurring rhythmic themes in the guitars, the drums seem to disagree strongly with them, and none of the dynamics, phrasing or accenting of each instrument seems to really compliment the others here. As much as I love the sporadic and mathy stuff, I could only recommend to spring the disjointed elements up later on, as variations of the original theme so that they're more digestible for the listener.
With some tweaking, and reinforcing of key accent/dynamic points, the intro really could be an astounding part of the song.

The 7/8 groove flows brilliantly, and the brief shift to 3/4 and back to 7/8 even works smoothly, but it just seems the section itself isn't given any time at all to breathe or develop at all. Another repeat - which would give you the opportunity to throw in a 4/4 polymeter on the drums or whatnot, as a variation - could really do this wonders, and lead into the clean section smoother.

The clean section itself functions well, but accenting key notes on the guitar can steer the listener in the right direction - subdividing a longer string of an odd meter, like 11/8, into accented chunks of 2 or 3, for example, can really help develop a groove and defining pulse. For example, it seems to me that the 5 beat (or 9th note) of the 11/8 bars could/should be accented on the guitar, so there's a sort of triplet feel at the end. Just a suggestion.

The variation of using distortion is good! This is a good example of giving an idea breathing room, but still keeping interest in the listener, and maintaining a familiar idea.
The transition into the counter melody section is well executed, but could be smoothed out a bit, and the second half is a prime example of a BTBAM-esque transition, into a pretty full-on Arusha Accord sounding riff. To me, the riff's just begging to be intensified, and I can see a drum fill after the current 3/4 transition (though in this case it would be a 2/4), before leading back into a double time breakdown of it. Maybe my imagination's getting the best of me, but I'm sort of craving it now.

The polyphony and counter melodies in the next clean section are great, and there's nothing really to complain about at all (and I'm sure I've bitched enough so far - sorry!) Definitely keep going on with this clean section, but with fuller, syncopated drumming (I keep hearing 7/8 in my head - maybe you could revisit the earlier 7/8 chugging theme to build up/back up near the end of this new clean section?).

That's where I can really see the song going - an expansion of this clean section with some fuller, more elaborate - but not overdone - syncopated drumming, possibly modulates up a tone or so after a few repeats, and then leading into a (maybe!) 7/4 variant (maybe bouncing between 7/4 and 6/4), later bringing the 7/8 chugging from earlier on to accommodate this, building up into a final revisitation of the Math Chug section, with an additional harmony guitar/lead over the top.
Maybe I'm thinking too much in the vein of a mathy Hotel California, or an Arusha Accord equivalent of the White Walls outro, but that's really what I'm thinking could make this piece bigger (horrible word choice, but meh!).
If you'd like me to be more specific on anything I brought up, feel free to ask, and if there's anything particularly you'd like insight on, the same goes - I'm always up for helping.

If you wouldn't mind or if you have time, a piece of mine on the front page could do with some feedback. And if you do, don't worry - as I say to everybody else, I know I write a lot, and I'm not expecting anybody to subdue themselves to a half hour of typing, but a decent chunk or so is always great.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1247440



Alex
Last edited by juckfush at Dec 19, 2009,
#7
yeah i actually really enjoyed the guitar work in this but the drums form no sort of coherent beat at any point in the song which to be honest ruins it completely, it doesnt flow or any kind of speed at any point, as magero said this "stopstartcore" stuff is balls. fix the drums and add bass and this would be amazing

EDIT: what dyou know the end bit does have a coherent drum beat... and surprise surprise its the best bit! good outro, really solid stuff.

C4C?

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1246347
Last edited by frankibo at Dec 19, 2009,
#8
ok, alot of hate for this one, despite this actually being my favourite thing ive written thus far. i realise its very erractic with very little repitition or 'defined' riffs/beats but thats the way i like my music and thats the way the music i find most interesting sounds.
i get bored easily so i find constantly changing music the most interesting to me. stuff like the arusha accord sums up what i like in music and i know alot of people hate that style but meh, its what i like.

also the points on accenting notes is a bit useless seeing as its guitar pro and obviously the beats are going to be accented when played rather than the monotone midi notes.

and on mageros 'stopstart' drumming comment, thats what i find compliments the music why would i want to try fit standard drum beats in to sections where it doesnt fit. if you dont like the style of music (which i assume from comments ive seen in the arusha accord thread) dont complain about it to me.

regardless, it sounds much better on guitar obviously and i recorded a sample of it like 6 or more months ago which is on my profile page for those interested
#9
i didnt read anything about anyone hating :S
it's constructive criticism, why post if you aren't gonna take constructive criticism (which it is, theres no abuse here) the right way? if you thought your piece was perfect and you just wanted to show off then thats pretty bad tbh.

all we're saying about the stop start drumming is that it just doesnt make the piece.
and ive gone and listened to arusha accord and although they have some stop start drumming the majority of the drum is actually a drum beat. theyre actually a pretty decent band, thanks for introducing me to them.
#10
Dude, I'm sorry but I don't believe I demonstrated any hate toward the piece

I know that in reality the guitars can have definitive accents, but because I didn't see any accent markings on the score (which still can make a noticeable difference in Guitar Pro), I assumed you didn't intend to put any in there, and I offered a valid option to keep things more digestible. It's just that with odd meters (particularly longer ones like 11/8), breaking up the bar into subdivisions marked by accenting can make things easier to interpret for the listener, and performer, and you can still keep the erratic nature of the song.

And besides, you asked for suggestions regarding the direction of the song, and I tried to offer some insight - we're not all shooting down the song We don't always receive positive crit all the time for our pieces - I felt a bit drawn back with the crits on my latest - but it's a learning experience and we can take those options and suggestions in to improve our writing; some of the guys who post here are phenomenal writers, and it's definitely worthwhile to hear from any of them, or any contributors in general.

As much as I love bands and artists like The Arusha Accord, Ron Jarzombek, The Algorithm, and other sporadic bands, I just think that developing the song component of the piece more could really help it. Repeating an idea isn't a bad thing, and having an abrupt section that jumps out and suddenly retreats can be awesome too, it just depends on where it's used. Revisitation and variation can play a huge part in songwriting, and there are enough good ideas in this piece to make something astounding.

Anyway, my apologies if I did come off as arrogant - or if this second comment comes of as me coming back to the thread to attack you or whatnot -, but I honestly believe I offered constructive and helpful suggestions on everything I addressed in my crit, at least.

Best of luck with the piece.
Last edited by juckfush at Dec 20, 2009,
#11
I apologise if my response came off as "hating". Was not intended that way. Was short on time and patience when I posted
I think there's some real potential in the song mate, but the "stopstart" stuff gets really old, really quick, and with so many bands doing it today... Maybe I'm just jaded
#14
all it needs is funky death contrapuntal bassline.

OH YEAH
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#16
i dont really like to do solos tbh, but i still dont know what to put in next after the clean
#17
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ok, alot of hate for this one, despite this actually being my favourite thing ive written thus far. i realise its very erractic with very little repitition or 'defined' riffs/beats but thats the way i like my music and thats the way the music i find most interesting sounds.
i get bored easily so i find constantly changing music the most interesting to me. stuff like the arusha accord sums up what i like in music and i know alot of people hate that style but meh, its what i like.

also the points on accenting notes is a bit useless seeing as its guitar pro and obviously the beats are going to be accented when played rather than the monotone midi notes.

and on mageros 'stopstart' drumming comment, thats what i find compliments the music why would i want to try fit standard drum beats in to sections where it doesnt fit. if you dont like the style of music (which i assume from comments ive seen in the arusha accord thread) dont complain about it to me.

regardless, it sounds much better on guitar obviously and i recorded a sample of it like 6 or more months ago which is on my profile page for those interested


Dude you asked for comments and you were given them... why are you trying to argue against them?
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