#1
Don't know if this is the right place, please tell me to move if not.

I was wondering how to "safely" achieve a more natural hardcore/punk shout? There's loads of threads dedicated to death growls and black metal rasps, and we all know the Melissa Cross methods, but is there a way to just achieve a general bark/shout safely?

Like...I'd rather be in the Daryl Palumbo/Greg Puciato/Cedric Bixler-Zavala/Andrew Neufeld/Keith Buckley area than the more Randy Blythe/Dave Verellen throat slit bark.

I realise I may sound a tad contradictory with my examples but any help would be appreciated.

TLDR; Is it possible/how do you produce "safe" natural sounding shouts and hardcore vocals rather than the slit throat bark some vocalists use?
#2
there is no 100% "safe" way to scream. the truth is it kills your voice after a while.

as for trying to sound more natural, just try and sing really really loud. kinda like david grohl does sometimes, like between singing and screaming.
#3
im not sure punk shouts can be done safely, but maybe try attaining a rasping/rough singing style (think metallica as an off the top of my head/terrible example) then try to make that sound more how u want it

experiment, but really try not to ruin ur throat or vocal chords

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#4
Quote by JayLacelle
there is no 100% "safe" way to scream. the truth is it kills your voice after a while.

as for trying to sound more natural, just try and sing really really loud. kinda like david grohl does sometimes, like between singing and screaming.


I use that to get a more high pitched, Frank Turner/Paul Mullen "yelp", by going to the top of my range before I hit falsetto and then just pushing it.

I dunno, my voice and speaking/singing style aren't naturally that agressive or loud, so I'm finding it hard to push my voice much. Pushing to the top of my range just about allows for a yelp but any time I try a more natural shout it comes out really forced and fake, like I'm impersonating a CD.
#5
yell.
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#6
Quote by deafening
im not sure punk shouts can be done safely, but maybe try attaining a rasping/rough singing style (think metallica as an off the top of my head/terrible example) then try to make that sound more how u want it

experiment, but really try not to ruin ur throat or vocal chords


See that's what I'm worried about. I have a rather soft singing voice, which works well over the quieter, more atmospheric bits of music, and with a nice reverb it's got a good Chino/Maynard sound, but I'm struggling with what to do when the music goes intense and I really just want to scream my nuts off, but not be reduced to "BRAH BRAH BRAH! BRAH! BWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAHHH!"

I love Converge but still...
#7
Quote by Heavens_To_Hell
Don't know if this is the right place, please tell me to move if not.

I was wondering how to "safely" achieve a more natural hardcore/punk shout? There's loads of threads dedicated to death growls and black metal rasps, and we all know the Melissa Cross methods, but is there a way to just achieve a general bark/shout safely?

Like...I'd rather be in the Daryl Palumbo/Greg Puciato/Cedric Bixler-Zavala/Andrew Neufeld/Keith Buckley area than the more Randy Blythe/Dave Verellen throat slit bark.

I realise I may sound a tad contradictory with my examples but any help would be appreciated.

TLDR; Is it possible/how do you produce "safe" natural sounding shouts and hardcore vocals rather than the slit throat bark some vocalists use?


Have you heard Keith Buckley lately? He killed is voice to be honest it hurts less to do the deep metal vocals then to do the raspy vocals. So none of those guys you metioned are really "safe".
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#8
Quote by NY_FootBall49
Have you heard Keith Buckley lately? He killed is voice to be honest it hurts less to do the deep metal vocals then to do the raspy vocals. So none of those guys you metioned are really "safe".


I don't so much mean his actual kind of gutterals, more the inbetween part.

I think Melissa Cross calls it like "vocal heat"? It's the inbetween of singing and barking, that kind of vocal he pulls out in the speakier bits.

Trying to think of an example...like the "Trust me, I'm still with you somewhere..." bit of For The Record, or the verses for Pigs is Pigs?

Or are those the eponymous gutterals that ruined his voice in the first place?
#9
Probably not the best advice, but in a band situation, just yell into the mic. The other instruments overpower you so subconciously you don't sing quieter, which happens when you're just playing by yourself with an acoustic or whatever. Again, probably not the best advice.
#10
Quote by BGSM
Probably not the best advice, but in a band situation, just yell into the mic. The other instruments overpower you so subconciously you don't sing quieter, which happens when you're just playing by yourself with an acoustic or whatever. Again, probably not the best advice.


Tbh I already do that. Hate the sound of my voice when I hear it back, so I keep monitors low-ish and just belt it out so I can hear myself internally.

Still comes out fairly soft/sweet sounding vocals though, and I love to do some more aggressive "AARRRGH" stuff.
#12
Quote by thesceneislame
yell.


this.


seriously though, every way imaginable will tear up your chords, so just do whatever you need to to sound the way you want. its always gonna hurt just take it slow so you dont overwork yourself
#13
Don't push with your throat! use your diaphragm, do short 5-10 minute sessions every day until you start getting it solidly, unless you hurt your voice, then stop and let it heal. Drink warm water and warm up before you start experimenting. Try breathing like a dog for a few minutes before screaming.

It might help to learn the other styles of screaming and gutturals because they seem to be a bit easier then what you are going for. When you get them down pretty well experimenting might be a bit easier because you know more about your voice and the techniques involved in making those type's of tones.

It seems like it might take a while. Similar to becoming decent at playing the guitar. Hopefully you get it down. Good luck! And don't keep doing it if you are just hurting yourself!
I Survived The "Silent Deftone Cocksucking Forum"!-August 15th, 2006
#14
Quote by to45t
this.


seriously though, every way imaginable will tear up your chords, so just do whatever you need to to sound the way you want. its always gonna hurt just take it slow so you dont overwork yourself


Surely there are like...variables of damage though? I could go out and just scream and screech and shout, but that'd totally bollock my chords. Even if it's at a lower volume is there not a safer alternative, like for growls?
#15
Quote by dez_cole
Don't push with your throat! use your diaphragm, do short 5-10 minute sessions every day until you start getting it solidly, unless you hurt your voice, then stop and let it heal. Drink warm water and warm up before you start experimenting. Try breathing like a dog for a few minutes before screaming.

It might help to learn the other styles of screaming and gutturals because they seem to be a bit easier then what you are going for. When you get them down pretty well experimenting might be a bit easier because you know more about your voice and the techniques involved in making those type's of tones.

It seems like it might take a while. Similar to becoming decent at playing the guitar. Hopefully you get it down. Good luck! And don't keep doing it if you are just hurting yourself!


I have thought about getting some screaming DVDs and stuff, even just out of interest, and try and get some of the growls/barks down.

I do like bands like Opeth, Converge and Botch, so I wouldn't mind learning those styles, but I always find the screams more effective when they sound more natural, especially when the singer can like...build up into it, like Palumbo or Erak from the Fall of Troy.

It's too easy to slip into a growl from singing, but with the more natural shout it sounds like you can build intensity more subtley and effectively.
#16
If you're doing a standard hardcore punk type thing, I would recommend just mastering what feels natural. If you're doing something more aggressive and you want to have a different sound, you might want to look into some DVDs or vocal instruction. Also, I know it's weird practicing by yourself, but try expirementing with your voice a bit. Everyone's voice is different, and you might discover you have a completely different sound if you use a certain technique.
#18
Quote by willingvictim
i wasnt aware there was this much of a science to all of this


There shouldn't be, but I'm wanting to somewhat preserve my voice. If I wasn't singing I'd just yelp my nuts off.
#19
haha i got you. ive been doing it for a little over 6 years now and my voice has changed drastically since i started, so obviously there must be methods to improve. i kinda just kept doing it until i got the sound i wanted. but at the same time my voice gets raspy as **** a lot now if i just smoke one cigarette, so there is probably some damage done.
#20
Quote by Heavens_To_Hell
See that's what I'm worried about. I have a rather soft singing voice, which works well over the quieter, more atmospheric bits of music, and with a nice reverb it's got a good Chino/Maynard sound, but I'm struggling with what to do when the music goes intense and I really just want to scream my nuts off, but not be reduced to "BRAH BRAH BRAH! BRAH! BWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAHHH!"

I love Converge but still...

Hahaha dude, you couldn't scream like Bannon if you wanted to.
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#22
Quote by nashawa
Hahaha dude, you couldn't scream like Bannon if you wanted to.


Here here.

On a total side-note, how amazing was Axe To Fall?
#23
Quote by Heavens_To_Hell
I don't so much mean his actual kind of gutterals, more the inbetween part.

I think Melissa Cross calls it like "vocal heat"? It's the inbetween of singing and barking, that kind of vocal he pulls out in the speakier bits.

Trying to think of an example...like the "Trust me, I'm still with you somewhere..." bit of For The Record, or the verses for Pigs is Pigs?

Or are those the eponymous gutterals that ruined his voice in the first place?


That's what I'm talking about Keith's growl just normal vocals. All he does is hold a bit of spit in his throat same thing a guy like Randy Blythe does just Keith's is more toned down. That style is not good for you why like I said you probably shouldn't try. There are ways to scream safely. But the methods your talking about are more screaming for dummies, as in they really have no formal training and really do everything professionals like Melissa Cross say not to do that's why Melissa Cross wouldn't teach who to scream like Keith even though she called him one of the most talented screamer.

Only thing you can do is just go do, and if it sounds good fine if not try to find a safer style.
AK-47. The very best there is. When you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherfucker in the room, accept no substitutes.

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It's comical because you are clearly an average to below-average bear.
#25
Yea I just noticed that sorry.
AK-47. The very best there is. When you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherfucker in the room, accept no substitutes.

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It's comical because you are clearly an average to below-average bear.
#26
haha i was just ****in around, no worries

but seriously, keith buckleys sounded so good before until after hot damn. whether or not he ruined his voice or not, it just sounded way more natural and not as forced and produced as it sounds now. that goes for the whole band in general actually.
#28
Quote by IcePh0enix
I think I remember hearing Melissa Crosse's scream on youtube and it sounded retarded.

Yeah, why go through the trouble to preserve your vocals if you sound like shit in the process?
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#29
Cross's "safer" way is what I'm trying to avoid though, that unnatural RAAAAAWWWR sound.

Seems like the concensus is that it's a trial and error system to find the best personal way.

Thanks everyone.
#31
Does anyone know how to do the screaming like the guy from polar bear club, where instead of percussive like growls and the like it actually has melody to it, yet still has an edge like hardcore yells? Polar Bear Club might be a terrible example, but you get my point. I hope.
Quote by seeneyj
I thought the whole idea of post-hardcore was to mix techno and hardcore.....
#32
Quote by zezimathehero
Does anyone know how to do the screaming like the guy from polar bear club, where instead of percussive like growls and the like it actually has melody to it, yet still has an edge like hardcore yells? Polar Bear Club might be a terrible example, but you get my point. I hope.

It's not a terrible example, and having an already raspy voice helps. It's really similar (the way I do it) to actual percussive screams, the whole pushing with your diaphragm thing to get a more powerful sound. I guess the best way to describe it would be like turning the gain up on something, once you reach a certain point, it just gets distorted.

I love that kind of singing. I kinda sound like the guy from Daylight currently.
Quote by emoboy027
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#33
Quote by NY_FootBall49
That's what I'm talking about Keith's growl just normal vocals. All he does is hold a bit of spit in his throat same thing a guy like Randy Blythe does just Keith's is more toned down. That style is not good for you why like I said you probably shouldn't try. There are ways to scream safely. But the methods your talking about are more screaming for dummies, as in they really have no formal training and really do everything professionals like Melissa Cross say not to do that's why Melissa Cross wouldn't teach who to scream like Keith even though she called him one of the most talented screamer.

Only thing you can do is just go do, and if it sounds good fine if not try to find a safer style.

Randy does it safely, he just has an extremely different voice, because he takes lessons from/advocates Melissa Crosse, and he's been screaming for 15 years. I think if he was doing it in a damaging way, his voice would have deteriorated, and as far as I can tell it's been getting better
#35
Polar Bear Club, Daylight, Make Do and Mend, all those guys have sick voices. Same with Nate Newton in Doomriders. My band's other guitarist is getting good at those vocals, while i'm learning more traditional hardcore vocals, pretty stoked.
Quote by seeneyj
I thought the whole idea of post-hardcore was to mix techno and hardcore.....
#36
TBH that would be another interesting type of vocal to learn/perfect, I'm also a fan of that kind of...I dunno, melodic shouting?

Polar Bear Club are also rather impressive live, just while we're on the subject. Good feel good band.