#1
okay, i want to lower the action on my schecter hellraiser c-1. i tihnk it's been a little high since i bought the thing. i think i know how to do it, i have to turn the screws on each side of the bridge.

anywya, what i want to know is, if i do this myself what prblems can occur and are they easily fixed? i know if i put it too low then the strings will buzz. but will i need to set the intonation or something?

when setting the intonation, everyone says play the 12th fret harmonic and then the 12th fret note and see if they match up.... instead of the 12th fret, can i use the 24th fret? if it must be the 12th, is there a reason for that?
#2
if your not sure what you doing son, stay the **** away from the screwdriver. I've lived and learned that.
Butcher
#3
It'd be best to have someone who knows what they're doing do it first, and maybe watch them. Pretty sure you can end up cracking your neck if you set it too high
#4
Quote by brad_butcher
if your not sure what you doing son, stay the **** away from the screwdriver. I've lived and learned that.


Setting action and intonation are the most easiest things to do on a T.O.M

As for the OP setting your action too low isn't going to kill the guitar you'll only get like stated fret buzz, you may need to re-do the intonation but that I haven't had to do after many action adjustments.
#5
I'd say you should try anyway... I mean, that's the way everyone learns how to set up a guitar. It's not like they get to learn how to do it at a school or something.
#6
its really not that hard, just find an article on online on how to do it thats what i did, and chances are you wont even have to mess with inotation
#7
Quote by MG_Sora
I'd say you should try anyway... I mean, that's the way everyone learns how to set up a guitar. It's not like they get to learn how to do it at a school or something.


Exactly I took apart a stratocaster before I knew how to set the action. People just need to spend a hundred bucks on a cheap SX and take the mofo apart and learn how to put it back together.
#9
setting it up for different tunings is one thing...I do this on my Floyd rose guitar and my TOM guitars and it's really not hard. But you're talking about setting it up for low action, so here is my 2c:

Almost ALL guitars made in factories by process workers who are paid by the hour (inc $5k Gibsons, $10k Fenders, Jackson, ESP, LTD, Schecter, epiphone, everything) will need a once-off setup to ensure the precision of the instrument for lowest action possible. Doesn't matter what brand, if it's a mass-produced guitar, the need for a professional setup exists.

This is a ONCE-OFF, and i've found that most people on this site do not understand this concept. You will not need to take it back for every string change, nor every tuning change. But a guitar from a factory, I don't care how much it costs, needs a setup by an experienced guitar tech who will level any uneven frets.

This service would usually cost around $180AUD, so at least $120usd imo, and only take it to a reputable tech, as in my experience, far too many are amateurs. The guy should be confident about say, achieving a 2mm gap between the low E string and the 12th fret, and a 1mm gap between the high E and 12th, which is really low action and plays like butter. I have two schecters myself, and both of them are getting it, as I can't get the action lower without encountering a crapload of buzz.
#10
thanks for the input. so are you saying its not a good idea to do myself? because if like yenners satated that it would cost me $180, then i think id rather just not get the setup...

im confident i could do it though, im just wondering what side effects it could have? as Nevermind1299 said, i could crack my neck, is that true? i just want to lower the action a tiny bit. and it is a TOM bridge so its straight forward.
#11
You can crack your neck by adjusting the trussrod like an idiot. But it's very uncommon (impossible) for anyone with a brain who reads instructions to do. Learn to do it yourself so you can set it up perfectly. Going to a store won't give you the perfect setup. Only you can do it yourself. That's why a lot of people say you need to do a setup on a guitar after you buy it. Frankly, different people want different things. How is manufacturer supposed to know whether you're using the guitar for slide or for shredding.

There's no actual measurements for low action. You can ask for low action but what does that mean? Low action means different things to different people. How much lower do you want your action? Most people (even shredders) don't like their action at the lowest possible point. Only you can adjust your guitar for to your perfect guidelines. You might as well learn to do it yourself. Experiment a little to see what you really like and what works best for you.
#12
12th fret, becouse between an open string and 12th fret is an octave. This means that lets say open D string is a D note (re) and on 12th fret of the D string is another D (re)
#13
okay thanks man. ive decided ill give it a go as there doesn't seem the be any real risk as i can jsut raise the action to what it was. oh and yeah, i had NO intentions of touching the truss rod because i know i could screw that shit up badly...
#14
12th fret, becouse between an open string and 12th fret is an octave. This means that lets say open D string is a D note (re) and on 12th fret of the D string is another D (re)
#15
Quote by kriscius
12th fret, becouse between an open string and 12th fret is an octave. This means that lets say open D string is a D note (re) and on 12th fret of the D string is another D (re)


yes... but the 24th fret would also be a D. the 24th fret harmonic sounds the same as teh 24th fret note.

the reason im asking is because i found that the action on the gutiar gradually gets slightly higher (but not by much, nothing annoying. i can play on the instrument fine i just think a little lower would make it even better). but because the action at the 24th fret is highest, when i play that note fretted, the sting is pushed down a fair distance and so i think the note ends up a little sharper than it should be.

so this means that the difernce between the 12th fret harmonic and 12th fret note pitch is not as big as the difference in pitch between 24th fret harmonic and 24th fret fretted note.
#16
Quote by wildozer
thanks for the input. so are you saying its not a good idea to do myself? because if like yenners satated that it would cost me $180, then i think id rather just not get the setup...

im confident i could do it though, im just wondering what side effects it could have? as Nevermind1299 said, i could crack my neck, is that true? i just want to lower the action a tiny bit. and it is a TOM bridge so its straight forward.


The neck could possibly crack but only if your an idiot and over tighten it and dont take your time. And adjusting action is rediculously simple, just lower it till the frets buzz then raise it till the fret buzz stops. A little fret buzz is okay, sometimes its necessary to get a lower action. But if you cant hear the fret buzzing through your amp on clean and distortion your okay. Fret leveling isnt hard iether if you just watch what your doing and have proper tools. The more level your frets are the lower your action can go without fret buzz. Though until you fully understand the process its best to take it to a luthier to get the frets leveled.

Also intonation is pretty simple, first I play the open string to make sure its in proper tuning such as E, then I play a note on 12th fret to make sure it also is showing E note, then I pluck the string and lighty toutch the string for half a second over the 12th fret to create a natural harmonic. If the note is sharp then I pull that strings saddle back a tiny bit and check again, its a flat then I slide the saddle forward a bit. I keep doing this till the harmonic rings out as E on the 12th fret position. Its a basic way of intonating but with just this my guitar is intonated perfectly all the way across the fret board.

Truss rod adjustments are mostly for making sure the neck is straight. This is simple and almost worry free if your carefull and have some understanding of what you are doing. Tighten the rod with tiny tiny adjustments if the neck bows forward till the neck is straight and if the neck bows backwards losen the truss rod little by little till its straight. For truss rod adjustments though I suggest reading the sticky at the top of this sections page.
#17
okay thanks guys. ill just go lower that shit haha and get back to you all . maybe do the intonation another time depending how this goes because i cbf at the moment

haha thank you one more time UG!
#18
Setting the action is easy, and it can be raised again just as easily

for the intonation, play the 12th fret into a good tuner
#19
to most posts, TL;DR. op, play with it, have fun, it's your toy
It's all about feel
#20
hmmm well... i didnt get all that far. i lowered it maybe a tiny bit but noticed a bit of buzzing. i think my neck could be slightly bowed. because i could comfortable slide a 10cent piece under high E string at the 12th fret, but when i tried that at the 24th fret, it didnt slide under the string....

i dont really want to **** with the truss rod though....
#21
Quote by brad_butcher
Stay the **** away from the screwdriver. I've lived and learned that.


Thanks for the sig!
#24
Quote by wildozer
thanks i guess :P

i think ill just take it to a tech...


Once you learn it doesn't take long to make small adjustments and it's more worth it. It'll cost less too.
Always tin your strings.

_____

Don't be afraid to be honest.
#25
Adjust the action via the bridge is limited, you can lower it to the point of fret buzz when this happens look along the neck to see if the string is closer to any of the frets compared to the rest, slip something under the strings to act as a gauge. If you find a raised fret then that needs addressing by a compatant guitar tech.
#26
Quote by Gargoyle2500


This is actually a very nice manual.

use your cheapest guitar first. Messing with the intonation can be frustrating, but its something every guitarist needs to know...just like changing strings.

Not much is going to happen from changing the intonation. Just be aware that if you go too low there may be natural fret buzz that is only audible unplugged.

Truss rod adjustments are very easy. just make TINY turns at a time. Its also a very easy way to ruin a guitar if you turn too much. Be patient.
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
#27
Like i said, most people on this site don't get that what you are after isn't 'maintenance'. Maintenance does involve small incremental adjustments like they are describing, with the manual and all, to tweak your action when changing tunings, string gauges, correcting the effects of weather on the guitar neck etc.

BUT everyone is still neglecting the first time, once-off setup, that all guitars need. Probably cos most of these guitarists are kids, they don't know what professional muso's expect. Get that once-off setup and you can do all the tweaking you like down the line, that is what the manual posted above is mainly for.

Do you think that manual above comes with fret rockers, levelers, nut files and such? That book looks like a basic 'how to maintain your electric guitar' book sold to beginners.... The very people giving you advice lol

All mass-produced guitars need a setup, because a pro guitar tech will be able to set it up like a precision instrument it is. A Chinese/Indo/Korean factory process worker paid by the hour lacks the decades of experience the pro guitar tech has. I'm over trying to explain this to people, but I really believe this is money well spent. Obviously if the guitar is worth less than $150 aud (NOT usd kiddies) then spending that much to set it up probably isn't worth it. They have a saying in the auto-trade that I think applies here to some extent: $2 for a $2 car.
#28
Quote by yenners
Like i said, most people on this site don't get that what you are after isn't 'maintenance'. Maintenance does involve small incremental adjustments like they are describing, with the manual and all, to tweak your action when changing tunings, string gauges, correcting the effects of weather on the guitar neck etc.

BUT everyone is still neglecting the first time, once-off setup, that all guitars need. Probably cos most of these guitarists are kids, they don't know what professional muso's expect. Get that once-off setup and you can do all the tweaking you like down the line, that is what the manual posted above is mainly for.

Do you think that manual above comes with fret rockers, levelers, nut files and such? That book looks like a basic 'how to maintain your electric guitar' book sold to beginners.... The very people giving you advice lol

All mass-produced guitars need a setup, because a pro guitar tech will be able to set it up like a precision instrument it is. A Chinese/Indo/Korean factory process worker paid by the hour lacks the decades of experience the pro guitar tech has. I'm over trying to explain this to people, but I really believe this is money well spent. Obviously if the guitar is worth less than $150 aud (NOT usd kiddies) then spending that much to set it up probably isn't worth it. They have a saying in the auto-trade that I think applies here to some extent: $2 for a $2 car.


Splitting hairs with all of that technical jargon does not make you look any smarter.
He doesn't need a luthier workshop to lower his action. A good book...allen wrenches and a set of filler gauges will take care of the basics. He won't even need filler gauges if he gets that book. Fret Repair is not something that is usually recommended a new player.

You dont need to take a course on rebuilding engines...just to check the fluid levels.

. o O ( where do they get these people.....? )
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at Dec 20, 2009,
#29
how can i know if my neck is straight? i wanna try adjusting the truss rod on an old electric see how easy it is etc... so say my neck is slightly bowed, what can i do? do i get a spirit level or something?
#31
Quote by wildozer
how can i know if my neck is straight? i wanna try adjusting the truss rod on an old electric see how easy it is etc... so say my neck is slightly bowed, what can i do? do i get a spirit level or something?


The fellow above me said to look from the headstock to the bridge, That is a way to see if the fretboard is lower on one side than the other. That's something that you should be concerned about when buying a guitar.

But you probably want to know the neck relief. So, Unless your Low E string is very old and warped (In which case you should replace it) Hold the Low E down at the first fret and eighteenth fret (Two hands) And see how high it is from the frets in the middle. You can adjust this with the truss rod. Turning it to the left (Counter clockwise) Will give it more relief (Making the strings higher and the neck less straight) But turning it to the right (Clockwise) Will make the neck stiffer and straighter, Making the strings closer to the frets.

Anyway, When you adjust the truss rod make a mark on it and the wood with a pen and then loosen it. Then you can tighten it. See, You loosen it first because what if it is already as tight as it can be? It may break the truss rod if it is tightened too much. Thankfully, That's only if you REALLY tighten it a lot.

Quote by yenners
Do you think that manual above comes with fret rockers, levelers, nut files and such? That book looks like a basic 'how to maintain your electric guitar' book sold to beginners.... The very people giving you advice lol


Please, Don't always assume that we're all like that. I'm past the basic stage and can make my own guitar nuts.
Always tin your strings.

_____

Don't be afraid to be honest.
Last edited by Gargoyle2500 at Dec 20, 2009,
#32
Everyone should learn how to maintain their guitar at one time or another. It's really not that difficult. It just takes a lot of patience. Literally costs no more than $10-20 to buy the tools to do a setup. All you need is a bladed automative gauge ($5), a rule with 1/64" increments ($5) maybe some allen wrenches if they didn't come with your guitar ($4) and possibly a capo. I think it's pretty obsured to pay someone even 50 bucks to do a basic setup. The first time I setup a guitar it took a couple hours, but now I know how to do setups saving me a lot of money on future guitars.

I think most people way overblow the whole truss rod thing. It takes a lot of pressure to turn the rod and as long as you only turn it slightly and remeasure the string action, it's basically foolproof.
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