#1
You have only 2 places to put your reverb pedal in a tube amp.


before preamp, after preamp but before poweramp.


If you crank the amp up, what do you think would happen to the tone of reverb/delays in power tube saturation mode?

Will it sound like crap? Since the reverb /modulation effect itself is now distorted by the power amp.

Even built in reverb/modulation is before power amp.


If you use a modeling amp, everything is modeled appropriately, so that means the modulation/reverb could theoritically be applied AFTER the power amp section, then cabinet modeling applied, and finally to your speaker.


Does this not mean, amp modeling if done well, could sound better than the real thing in a reverb/modulated setting ?


I can't see how reverb /modulation could sound good in a power amp distortion/overdrive.

What do you think?


Would love to hear those who cranked their amp up with modulation pedal in the effects loop or front of the amp.

How does the tone sound like with power amp saturation ?
#2
Quote by sfx


If you use a modeling amp, everything is modeled appropriately, so that means the modulation/reverb could theoritically be applied AFTER the power amp section, then cabinet modeling applied, and finally to your speaker.



No. Modeling amps can only have their effects before or after the pre amp. Nothing can go after the power amp for the same reason as in a non modelling amp. Modeling amps work the same as non-modeling amps except they have DSP circuits built into the pre amp, as opposed to using analogue circuits to create distortion. This is then amplified by the power amp.
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#3
^ Not quite correct. They also model power amps, cabinets and speakers, meaning depending on the software, it's possible to put your reverb anywhere. Obviously the sound then goes through an actual power amp and speaker, but these are designed to be completely transparent, unlike regular guitar power amps and speakers.
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#5
Quote by loonyguitarist
^ Not quite correct. They also model power amps, cabinets and speakers, meaning depending on the software, it's possible to put your reverb anywhere. Obviously the sound then goes through an actual power amp and speaker, but these are designed to be completely transparent, unlike regular guitar power amps and speakers.

software cannot replace hardware - this software is ALWAYS going to be entirely in the preamp section of a modelling amplifier. if you're talking about modelling devices other than amplifiers, such as a line 6 pod, of course things are different but what you have to realise is that the pod is just a preamp, and has no power amp section - if you really want to amplify the sound, you have to run it through a power amp and into a speaker which will colour the tone. Otherwise there's just no way to use it them other than studio recording, at which point the whole idea of being able to put the reverb in the signal after the simulated power amp section is completely obsolete as it's something people have been able to for longer than digital modelling has existed.

I think modelling amps generally attempt to have the most transparent power amp and speaker to keep the simulated power amp and speaker tone. but in a modelling amplifier, this simulation is still in the preamp section.
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#6
So the conclusion is.


1. Modeling amps would not sound better than a tube amp for reverb even if given best place to put the effect.

2. Tube amp reverb sounds better (in effects loop or after preamp)


3. Neither Modeling amps or Tube amps are the real deal.


The only true reverb is the one that you get when your amp actually causes a real reverb in a hall/room/space, right after the audio leaves the speaker.


But if that is the case, then playing a POD or amp modeler through a full range PA is the closest we can get to the real thing.
#7
^No. That would still be the same as a standard modelling amp. Because the POD would be your preamp with the reverb that could also be a preamp in a modelling amp, and you PA would be the poweramp like the poweramp in you modelling amp.

The only difference in reverb quality is determined by the reverb itself. If you have a crappy modelling amp with cheap reverbs, that would sound worse than a amp, modelling or not, that has a spring reverb tank build in.

Or the difference between a cheap reverb pedal or a good one. The amp doesn't matter.
Last edited by WtrPlyr at Dec 22, 2009,
#8
Note that you can also place effects after the power amp (and before a second power amp) with a tube amp - that's the whole point of a Palmer based wet/dry rig. I don't do it personally, but it is an option.
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#9
Quote by Blompcube
software cannot replace hardware - this software is ALWAYS going to be entirely in the preamp section of a modelling amplifier. if you're talking about modelling devices other than amplifiers, such as a line 6 pod, of course things are different but what you have to realise is that the pod is just a preamp, and has no power amp section - if you really want to amplify the sound, you have to run it through a power amp and into a speaker which will colour the tone. Otherwise there's just no way to use it them other than studio recording, at which point the whole idea of being able to put the reverb in the signal after the simulated power amp section is completely obsolete as it's something people have been able to for longer than digital modelling has existed.

I think modelling amps generally attempt to have the most transparent power amp and speaker to keep the simulated power amp and speaker tone. but in a modelling amplifier, this simulation is still in the preamp section.

I think we're both trying to say the same thing

What I'm saying is that you can run the reverb anywhere in the software simulation, even after the (simulated) speaker. Obviously this would then still have to go through another (real) power amp and speaker, but if they are reasonably transparent you will still have the nice reverb almost unaffected by them. This is in contrast to a normal guitar amp where the reverb would be coloured by the P/A and speakers.

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#10
It depends what kind of sound youre looking for, but reverb can sound pretty sweet in front of a bit of overdrive/distortion
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