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#1
First off, NOT MY VIEW POINT, However a group my friend joined on facebook.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=110744530692&ref=nf

Check it out, the info and the wall posts, Some Soldiers/Ex Soldiers have posted there with some excellent arguments.

I Know UG is pretty split down the line by these things, but normally the same moral standards are upheld for those fighting over there, Wich is something i've always liked about this site.

Thoughts/Opinions?.
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#3
I would say it depends on what you do and whether you really chose to do it. So it's nearly impossible to tell if they are heroes or not.
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#4
Quote by KGB_INC
Soldiers ARE heroes.

/thread

*Awaits rebuttal*



don't /thread my thread! It could be good.


However i do agree with you.
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I'm now so drunk that even if my mom had given me a blow job at aeg 2, i'd be like I'm a pmp, butches.!

If this even madkes sense... if yhou sig this, Iw ll kill you.
#5
Quote by barden1069
I would say it depends on what you do and whether you really chose to do it. So it's nearly impossible to tell if they are heroes or not.


This.

Support soldiers = they are heroes

Don't support soldiers = they are not heroes
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#10
No one is anything unless they've earned it/become it. Joining the military doesn't automatically make you a hero for a few reasons:

- very few people who join actually do anything dangerous
- even fewer are combat arms oriented
- it's not hard to be in the military
- most people in the military have exact civilian counterparts
- idiots can get into the military too
- it's really not a big deal
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#11
Quote by cliff_em_all
don't /thread my thread! It could be good.


However i do agree with you.


I sawwy. XD

But seriously, I believe soldiers are heroes. Why?


Would YOU go out and put your life on the line for someone else on a daily basis, despite the fact you aren't required to?

I highly doubt it. With massive amounts of emphysis on "highly".
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#12
LEVEDIT: Actually, screw this, I'm not going to be a part of ANOTHER argument...
Last edited by 'Leviathan' at Dec 22, 2009,
#13
Quote by Casketcreep
They aren't.
Murderers shouldn't be praised, no matter what context it is in.


I don't agree with this. It is too oversimplified.
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#14
I think that to go into a place where you are likely to be shot willingly, is just stupid. And you are a hero if you are saving lives, but I dont really see how war saves lives. A fireman is a hero, a lifesaver is, a freakin toddler saving a cat is a hero. But any lives you do save in war is negated by killing even one person.
...In my opinion.
#17
some are, for sure. Im against the war in Iraq (afganistan's good), but they didnt really choose to fight it. they are defending innocent people, which makes them heros. some however, ruin that name with the baby killings and such
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#18
Quote by Dreadnought
No one is anything unless they've earned it/become it


This is a great point.

The one thing that gets me on the page is the amount of soldier hate, yet they only focus on this generations wars, there is rarley a mention of WW1/WW2.
Quote by ZanasCross
I'm now so drunk that even if my mom had given me a blow job at aeg 2, i'd be like I'm a pmp, butches.!

If this even madkes sense... if yhou sig this, Iw ll kill you.
#19
Quote by wizards?
Is what they're doing brave? Yes. Does that make them a hero? No.

It's just another job in my opinion.


This I agree with. If you ask many veterans/soldiers how they feel about what they do, alot say "I was just doing my job".

Edit: The bottom line is some are and some are not. It is completely dependant on what they have done. All are very brave but only some commit some of the most heroic acts ever seen.
Quote by axethrower13
But you only die once, so you may as well experience it to the fullest.

Quote by ozzyismetal
Get her a goat. Bitches love goats.

Quote by Weaponxclaws
Plus, naturally I scream satanic rituals while unleashing the demon. It's a marvelous resurrection.
Last edited by Its So Easy at Dec 22, 2009,
#20
I'd say some of them are but I think the main difference between someone fighting in Iraq and someone fighting in WW1 or WW2 is that the people in Iraq have chosen to be in Iraq unlike the others. I forget the name (he was a famous poet) but one man who was a strict pacifist and wrote anti-war poems during one of the two world wars received medals for bravery amongst other things. I think that kind of person is a hero, not someone who chooses to go to war.
Quote by the_white_bunny
your just a simpleton that cant understand strategy apparently.

Quote by the_white_bunny
all hail king of the penis sucking(i said balls. you said dick for some reason?) Isabiggles
#21
The bravery of those soldiers is so great, it makes a man want to cry.

I mean, you try being dipped in egg yolk for a ****ing living by a beast 1000 times your size!

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#22
Most of them aren't heroes, but they should all be respected for being as brave as they are to do what they do.


Quote by osXtiger
The bravery of those soldiers is so great, it makes a man want to cry.

I mean, you try being dipped in egg yolk for a ****ing living by a beast 1000 times your size!




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Last edited by SlipknotRule93 at Dec 22, 2009,
#24
Soldiers aren't heroes by default you flaming mingers.
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#25
Quote by SlipknotRule93
Most of them aren't heroes, but they should all be respected for being as brave as they are to do what they do.

Not to play devil's advocate but is it brave to sign up for the national guard knowing you're probably not going to be deployed? I mean hell I could go sign up today and do my one weekend a month. Does that make me brave?
#26
LEVEDIT: Actually, screw this, I'm not going to be a part of ANOTHER argument...
Last edited by 'Leviathan' at Dec 22, 2009,
#27
most of them are there for the money not because they want to save the world.
#29
I really dont like things that perpetuate the "glory" of war. Even ANZAC day, I just hate it. They talk about the "Australian spirit" and "bravery." No. You went overseas and got massacred. Its a celebration of stupidity.

I say all this, but then again I either lack the bravery, or dont lack the intelligence to go over and put my life on the line
...In my opinion.
#30
People who say they are heroes, it seems, usually have a personal stake that makes them say that; and people who say they aren't usually don't; and both sides are usually ignorant of the big picture.

/2¢
#31
Quote by Casketcreep
They aren't.
Murderers shouldn't be praised, no matter what context it is in.

Troll, Idiot or Nazi sympathiser.

which one are you?

Godwin's Law can't realistically apply to a discussion about war.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#32
Quote by 'Leviathan'
So... they're NOT heroes for choosing to go to war? Unlike WWI and WWII, these people are CHOOSING to die for what they believe as opposed to being drafted because the government tells you to. CHOOSING to fight and risk death is BLOODY heroic.

LEVEDIT: Soldiers being 'heroes' may not ring true for all of them, but the fact that they are fighting and risking their lives must prove something.


Yes, because we all know that Iraq could invade at any moment.
Quote by the_white_bunny
your just a simpleton that cant understand strategy apparently.

Quote by the_white_bunny
all hail king of the penis sucking(i said balls. you said dick for some reason?) Isabiggles
#33
Quote by wizards?
Not to play devil's advocate but is it brave to sign up for the national guard knowing you're probably not going to be deployed? I mean hell I could go sign up today and do my one weekend a month. Does that make me brave?


Yes, but not as brave as a full time soldier.
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#34
Quote by Lemoninfluence
Troll, Idiot or Nazi sympathiser.

which one are you?

Godwin's Law can't realistically apply to a discussion about war.

I disagree.
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#35
A lot of people who join the army are school leavers who failed their exams and can't get a job elsewhere. They don't give a crap about serving their country. However, don't get me wrong. Every soldier isn't like this.

Also, these soldiers kill people. Why are they heroic for killing people?
#36
I wouldn't generalise either way. Some soldiers are heroes, many are not. I believe that killing is wrong, whatever the context, and however much I disagree with war and what soldiers are ordered to do, I respect the sacrifice and bravery it takes to do it.
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#37
How are they heroes? It's they're job. Who gives a toss if they put their lives on the line, they chose to do it.

Threads about this stuff alweays get me riled, xD.

It's their job, simple as.
#38
I support soldiers and generally agree that their actions are good. I don't think they are heroes. I know a few people who are in various military branches. Some are in it for the money, some are in it because they like the work.

If we're going to call soldiers heroes because of the 'bravery' they show going into a line of work where getting killed is a possibility then surely something like miners should be called heroes as well. It's a work that's dangerous and supporting the country (just in a different way; economically).

tldr; Soldiers = good. Soldiers =/= heroes.
#39
Quote by 'Leviathan'
Disrespectful group is disrespectful. These people put their lives on the line for their country... how is that NOT courageous?


I didnt ask them to put there lives on the line, plenty of people would prefer they didnt.
Very few people in any war are heroes or courageous, to must its just a job.

Most of the hero worship is political in nature. It suits politicans to praise the military, especialy in the US where its a massive political force.

Personaly I think the opposite of the military. Half a million dead Iraqi civilians doesnt equal hero.
#40
Quote by blue_strat
People who say they are heroes, it seems, usually have a personal stake that makes them say that; and people who say they aren't usually don't; and both sides are usually ignorant of the big picture.


True. I have a personal stake, in that one of my relatives fought in counter-terrorist operations in Bosnia, Afghanistan and Iraq as part of the KCT. He's a friend and colleague of Marco Kroon, a member of the Ducth special forces who earned the highest medal for bravery, leadership and loyalty in the Netherlands. He earned this from the following scenario, amongst others:

1) His squad was heavily outnumbered by the Taleban when performing reconnaisance. He was forced to call air support on his own position- essentially bombing himself.

2) When clear, he had his squad take up cover in a nearby house. Again, heavily outnumbered and outgunned, attacked overnight. None of his squad fell.

3) In the morning, he ordered his squad to recover anything that could identify the attackers, if they carried any intelligence etc. He noticed the agitation in his men beforehand, and instead of leaving them to possibly loot the bodies for personal affects etc, he ordered his men to bring the wounded to cover, treat them, and bury any dead.

In my eyes, Marco Kroon is a hero. Yes, he killed people, but he was able to correct his commandos, and ensured that the Taleban attackers were ultimately treated with the same dignity and respect he would bestow upon his soldiers. Heroism isn't just about bravery in combat. It's also about bravery in your subsequent actions.