#1
I'm basically tired of not knowing how to apply these on my guitar. I just don't understand how the hell you apply these to the guitar. I can see it on paper, and I can probably guess intervals on sheet music, but how you apply it on my guitar is beyond me.

I'm just so frustrated from not knowing these and 6 strings + 22 frets doesn't make it any easier. For example, someone can tell me the interval on one string, but how are you supposed to know what the interval from say.. the 3rd fret of the high E to the 6th fret of the B string is? How do you solve that? What about bigger distances from say the 3rd fret of the high E to all the way to the 6th fret of the A string? I'm just using random examples.

Also, I don't know how to apply the circle of fifths, I know that it tells me which how many flats and sharps are in a key but that's it? If I'm in a key, I could just noddle around the major scale of that key using the moveable major scale or something but how do you know when to use for example an major pentatonic scale?

In the key of A you can use the A minor pentatonic and the A major scale?


Thanks to those who actually take the time to read and answer my question, I'm just so mad that I can't get the grasp of these subjects
#2
Oh, and to add, I'm just jealous of how quickly everyone grasps these subjects but not me
#3
Learn the notes of the fretboard. Learn where the different octaves are. Then it will be easier.

If you know where middle C is on the guitar then you can do this kinda easily.
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#4
When in doubt, count half steps. 3rd fret on the high E (that would be G) to 6th fret on the B, which is the same as the first fret on the high E, because you should know that the E is 5 half-steps up from the B. 3 - 1 = 2. So you have 2 half-steps (or one whole-step, which is the interval of a major third).

The circle of fifths tells you which notes are in key. For example, the key of F tells you one flat, which is Bb. The rest are assumed to be natural notes (notes without b or #, the ones that fall in the C major scale/A natural minor scale). The notes you can use based on that are F G A Bb C D E.

Within the key of A, you can use A major and A major only. The notes are A B C# D E F# G#. The major pentatonic falls within the major scale, so use that all you want.

You do mention the A MINOR pentatonic though. You can use this scale in A major, but it uses accidentals (notes which are out of key) and since these are flattened (lowered) in this case it gives it a bluesy sound. This is the fundamental theory behind blues and blues-based music.
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Last edited by food1010 at Dec 22, 2009,
#5
Not everyone grasps these concepts quickley. Your're not alone.

My advice is to learn the notes of the guitar. That is your foundation. And to get lessons. That will help you alot.
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#6
TsIT's not the easiest thing to apply but once it clicks it makes so much sense. Whenyou know the key, you can construct any scale or mode you want. You'll probably memorize the major scale in all positions just from using it so much. Then, to solo for example in mixolydian, you will know how to derive that scale from the major sccale, and you can see how it relates.
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#7
Thanks.. I know some notes but not all. Is there any websites that's not musictheory.net that explains the subjects in great detail?
#8
Oh and also, I don't know if it's an option (financially, time wise, etc) but learning theory with a guitar teacher speeds up and eases the learning process A LOT. Definitely look into that if you can.
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My cover of Manchester Orchestra's "I Can Feel Your Pain"
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#9
Quote by Cflobucket
Thanks.. I know some notes but not all. Is there any websites that's not musictheory.net that explains the subjects in great detail?



Actually this site. Not for everything but I have looked at the lessons on the circle of fifths and modes and they are great
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My cover of Manchester Orchestra's "I Can Feel Your Pain"
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#10
Quote by Cflobucket
I'm basically tired of not knowing how to apply these on my guitar. I just don't understand how the hell you apply these to the guitar. I can see it on paper, and I can probably guess intervals on sheet music, but how you apply it on my guitar is beyond me.

I'm just so frustrated from not knowing these and 6 strings + 22 frets doesn't make it any easier. For example, someone can tell me the interval on one string, but how are you supposed to know what the interval from say.. the 3rd fret of the high E to the 6th fret of the B string is? How do you solve that? What about bigger distances from say the 3rd fret of the high E to all the way to the 6th fret of the A string? I'm just using random examples.

Also, I don't know how to apply the circle of fifths, I know that it tells me which how many flats and sharps are in a key but that's it? If I'm in a key, I could just noddle around the major scale of that key using the moveable major scale or something but how do you know when to use for example an major pentatonic scale?

In the key of A you can use the A minor pentatonic and the A major scale?


Thanks to those who actually take the time to read and answer my question, I'm just so mad that I can't get the grasp of these subjects


I feel your frustration. I've been where you are now. Youre not the only one.

I just don't understand how the hell you apply these to the guitar.

Well from all the ways that people will tell you, I have yet to find a way that does the job very quickly. Intervals, and all those things are going to take a pretty good chunk of time. Bottom line...time and hope that you find something not confusing.

the 3rd fret of the high E to the 6th fret of the B string is?

Intervals - that's easier to help you - you don't have to know that ^. The intervals go to one octave and then repeat - up to 13th. so if it can't be played in 2 octaves, dont sweat it. Also, concentrate on just the intervals of the first octave - thats 12 notes, primarily learn 3rds 5ths and 7ths. 4ths are easy too they are usually the same fret on the string underneath the one you are on.

The Intervals from 1-12 ending at the octave are
Unison, m2, M2, m3, M3, 4, #4/b5, 5, m6, M6, m7, M7, Octave

If you hear the term "perfect" - those intervals are unison, 4ths and 5ths.

In any major scale, the intervals are Unison, M2, M3, 4, 5, M6, M7 Octave

This is a good overview of the intervals.

However its also good to know the notes on the neck. That could at least tell you what two note you are comparing to see what interval it is.

Also, I don't know how to apply the circle of fifths


I'm gonna raise a lot of eyebrows here but Im gonna say it - I dont see the big deal about them either. I get it, I understand them, they are good for things like modulating. But hell, knowing your intervals and sighting them on the guitar does the same thing. I can cycle through just looking at the intervals visually

I'm just so frustrated from not knowing these and 6 strings + 22 frets doesn't make it any easier.

Ive been in your shoes, and i know what youre getting at - it's now my life's work to help others that are like you.

how you apply it on my guitar is beyond me.

Knowing the notes on the neck solid, knowing triads, knowing major keys and scales on the guitar, and I don't mean playing them, I mean playing them because you know the notes and can see them on the fretboard instead of memorized patterns.

Application to the guitar is directly related to what you know about the guitar to start with.

In the key of A you can use the A minor pentatonic and the A major scale?

You can use anything you want - so, phrase your question differently. Over an a power chord you could use both, over an A blues you can use both. The question becomes what sounds good and what doesnt?

It helps to know diatonic theory and harmony, which is... how does a major scale relate to the chords in a major key?
#11
The circle of fifths really doesn't mean anything when you play. It's just an easy way to figure out which keys have how many sharps and flats, but you can use any way you find easiest.
#12
This is from my forum...

1. The Circle of 5th's a a way of organizing Keys.



As you move clock wise you add more #'s and then less b's. These show you the Keys as you'd see them in notation.

If you look at the Circle of 5th's moving clockwise...it moves in 5th's. But, if you look at the circle counter clock wise, it's in 4th's.

2. Playing 5th's (or 4th's) you can create practically endless chord movements...very nice chord movements...changing through keys.

In Jazz and Blues it's used like this in a turnaround in G...

||: G | C | G | Dm | C | C#dim | G | E7 | A7 | D7 | G7 E7 | A7 D7 :||

See how the E7->A7->D7->G7 move in 5th's/4th's?

3. Another use is a road map of ii-V-I progressions. You can start anywhere in the circle and make your starting note a min7 chord, then the next note counter clockwise, make it a dominant 7 chord. Then move one more note counter clock wise and make a maj7 chord from that note.

You've just created a ii7-V7-maj7 progression in the Key of the last note (the one you built the maj7 from).

4. Another thing with the circle is, you can see every note IN a Key, and every note OUT of Key...

Take the Key of C (C D E F G A B C)

With a pencil, start at C and draw a line to G, continue it to D then to A then to E then to B...now, for the next note draw a line from B directly across the circle to F. Then continue your line from F to C.

You've completed all of the notes in the Key of C...but...

ALL the notes to the right are IN Key...and ALL the notes to the left are OUT of Key.

There's plenty more goofy stuff you can do with it...it's interesting though.
Last edited by MikeDodge at Dec 22, 2009,
#13
Quote by iforgot120
The circle of fifths really doesn't mean anything when you play.


Ouch!
#14
Thanks a bunch, I really appreciate the input and the info.

And about my other question (In the key of A you can use the A minor pentatonic and the A major scale?), I guess knowing how to play and substitute notes and other things is just something I'll learn down the road. I do have a teacher, but right now what we're doing is basically learning 11 chords every week, gives me a finger independence excersise in which I need to play CLEANLY (he's finally making me speed it up using a metronome), and gives me a couple of pieces to sight read without memorizing. It's part of this book where he introduced a couple of notes, and using the other notes from the week before, just sight read. No big music theory stuff yet, but I'll be sure to ask him as well (we meet 1 time every week for 30 minutes.. which is extremely short I say).

There really seems to be a commonwealth of information here which is awesome, thanks guys, I really do appreciate the time you guys took to answer my question and provided input.
#15
Quote by MikeDodge
T
4. Another thing with the circle is, you can see every note IN a Key, and every note OUT of Key...

Take the Key of C (C D E F G A B C)

With a pencil, start at C and draw a line to G, continue it to D then to A then to E then to B...now, for the next note draw a line from B directly across the circle to F. Then continue your line from F to C.

You've completed all of the notes in the Key of C...but...

ALL the notes to the right are IN Key...and ALL the notes to the left are OUT of Key.

There's plenty more goofy stuff you can do with it...it's interesting though.



Kinda cool. The Key signatures are useful if they are playing or sightreading music notation.

The other applications which you mention I understood already, but number 4 was kind of cool. I'm sure there's a reason for it, I've just never done much with it other than say, okay thats interesting.