#1
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6513866.ece

A Jewish couple are suing their neighbors in a block of flats, saying an automatic security light is keeping them prisoner in their home because it forces them to break their Sabbath rules.

Dr Dena Coleman and husband Gordon claim they cannot leave their holiday flat on the Sabbath because when they do they automatically trigger the light in the communal hallway - contravening a religious ban on turning on electrical items from sunset on Friday to sunset on Saturday because it constitutes 'creating fire'.

Who's in the wrong here? I think saying 'their human rights are being breached' is a bit dramatic. I don't think something that was meant for good should really be moved to accommodate a religion out of respect. I'm sure no one ever thought of this when the scriptures were being written.


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Last edited by hugh20 at Dec 23, 2009,
#2
Our whole bodies function on electrical currents- does that mean we're not allowed to be alive on the sabbath?
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#4
Quote by rabidguitarist
Our whole bodies function on electrical currents- does that mean we're not allowed to be alive on the sabbath?


Lol! If they are gonna be that literal they should probably kill themselves every Saturday.

Now, hang on. I know Jewish People that use their computers and lights on Saturdays, I don't think it counts.
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#5
Haha that's mental. Why would they sue the neighbours though; surely it is down to the landlord? Regardless, it would presumably be adjudged to be a restriction on everyone else's right to see if they were to have the light removed, if this lawsuit is the way they want to try and resolve their problem.

Lesser of two evils (well, inconveniences) therefore the Jews should deal with it.
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#6
Quote by rabidguitarist
Our whole bodies function on electrical currents- does that mean we're not allowed to be alive on the sabbath?

I bet there's an exception for synapses.


Quote by Spoonman69
Rap is music,far better than metal for example. id much rather hear about hoes and anal sex than dragons and supressed homosexuality.
#8
If they took the whole Torah completely literally, they wouldn't be able to do many more things on the Sabbath.

The Daily Mail isn't exactly the most reliable publication for giving the true story, though.
#9
Jesus Christ, is it just me or are people getting more mental?
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#10
i'm pretty sure when the sabbath was created, the idea wasn't to avoid turning on security lights...
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#11
Bahhh. Just when I thought I'd worked out what a Jewish nose looks like, I look at that picture and she doesn't seem to have one. Why can't Jews just be a different colour, like other races?
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#12
Quote by blue_strat
If they took the whole Torah completely literally, they wouldn't be able to do many more things on the Sabbath.

The Daily Mail isn't exactly the most reliable publication for giving the true story, though.

Ok
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/166640

...

wait...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6513866.ece
That's better.


Quote by Spoonman69
Rap is music,far better than metal for example. id much rather hear about hoes and anal sex than dragons and supressed homosexuality.
#13
Well that is where religions mess up, how can they say that this was their fault when the light was already switched on before they stepped out of the room, although they did activate it by moving in front of the sensor, but they take their religion too far, if they can't have their religious sabbath (Black sabbath FTW!) then go somewhere else its pathetically funny
#15
She looks like she's just wandered straight out of the 80s.
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#16
Good lord, this is exactly what is wrong with the world these days. If you don't like it, move out. Simple as that.

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#17
hmmm....
it seems to me that they either want lots of attention or lots of money.
if they were truly religious they would have smashed the light, afterall, the bible says something like 'cut of your hand if it causes you to sin'.
so, they are broke or really really bored...
#18
The Jews are wrong (no, I'm not being Anti-Semitic, I can't be).
A) It's an automatic light, they themselves aren't switching it on. Even orthodox Jews here don't have a problem with that.
B) They can't force other people to keep Shabbat for them.
Quote by oxymorcide
afterall, the bible says something like 'cut of your hand if it causes you to sin'.

It most certainly doesn't.
Last edited by jimmyled at Dec 23, 2009,
#19
Um, yes it does;

'The book of Matthew also contains the passage: “And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.”'
#20
Quote by tushmeister
Um, yes it does;

'The book of Matthew also contains the passage: “And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.”'

WTF is the book of Matthew? The Bible doesn't mention heaven or hell, except in Eiov (Job), which is an allegory.
#21
They're only looking for an excuse to sue for money or because they dislike their neighbors.
#23
lol
When using electricity, one causes a fire as there are sparks created by the electricity

Unless the wiring is really f*cking shoddy, there won't be any sparks.
#24
Quote by tushmeister
It's one of the four canonical gospels, let's double check here, you're aware which book is the Bible right? Old AND New Testament, Christian text etc etc...

And;
http://www.allaboutworldview.org/is-hell-mentioned-in-the-bible-faq.htm

Don't talk about something you don't understand or know, you just look a moron.

Why would Jews give a **** about the new testament?
All those mentions are part of the New Testament, which I don't consider a part of the Bible, and neither do they. Do some research before you shoot that fat mouth of yours.
I don't know why I'm so pissed off today.
Last edited by jimmyled at Dec 23, 2009,
#25
Quote by tushmeister
It's one of the four canonical gospels, let's double check here, you're aware which book is the Bible right? Old AND New Testament, Christian text etc etc...

And;
http://www.allaboutworldview.org/is-hell-mentioned-in-the-bible-faq.htm

Don't talk about something you don't understand or know, you just look a moron.

Why would Jews be reading the new testament?
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#26
jimmyled quoted someone mentioning the Bible.
He even used the word himself, I was correcting him based on that, the person originally referencing the Bible was simply mocking religion in general for it's absurd rules...

Is it that hard to follow?
#27
Quote by tushmeister
jimmyled quoted someone mentioning the Bible.
He even used the word himself, I was correcting him based on that, the person originally referencing the Bible was simply mocking religion in general for it's absurd rules...

Is it that hard to follow?

Well, we're discussing Jews here, so the New Testament has nothing to do with this.
#28
Quote by jimmyled
Well, we're discussing Jews here, so the New Testament has nothing to do with this.


Well perhaps, but when omniwhatever mentioned the Bible and you stated wrongly something opposing him, how am I to blame for you making an error? Just because you consider the New Testament irrelevant, to the majority of the world it IS part of the Bible (I consider the Bible the Old+New Testament, and the Torah the Hebrew Bible, though the word Bible COULD describe either, I'm quite certain that's the norm...).

No matter what you say, you wrongly attacked what someone said, the relevance of it is, oddly, irrelevant to you being wrong. Well done you.


EDIT
And rabidguitarist, perhaps a Jew wouldn't read the New Testament as vividly or pay as much attention, but I'm an atheist and I've read several holy books, I would hope a religious person would at least be willing to do the same, if just to 'know their enemy'. I suppose it's wishful thinking, but I'd at least hope he knew who Matthew was, perhaps I expect too much of general knowledge


DOUBLEDIT
And we aren't 'discussing Jews here'
At least, not strictly, as I've said, the guy brought up other religious rules that make no sense, which is directly linked to the topic, don't push your ignorance onto me...
Last edited by tushmeister at Dec 23, 2009,
#29
Quote by tushmeister
Well perhaps, but when omniwhatever mentioned the Bible and you stated wrongly something opposing him, how am I to blame for you making an error? Just because you consider the New Testament irrelevant, to the majority of the world it IS part of the Bible (I consider the Bible the Old+New Testament, and the Torah the Hebrew Bible, though the word Bible COULD describe either, I'm quite certain that's the norm...).

No matter what you say, you wrongly attacked what someone said, the relevance of it is, oddly, irrelevant to you being wrong. Well done you.


EDIT
And rabidguitarist, perhaps a Jew wouldn't read the New Testament as vividly or pay as much attention, but I'm an atheist and I've read several holy books, I would hope a religious person would at least be willing to do the same, if just to 'know their enemy'. I suppose it's wishful thinking, but I'd at least hope he knew who Matthew was, perhaps I expect too much of general knowledge

Well, I'm a Jew (not Jewish though) from Israel, so for me, Bible means Old Testament. He was wrong, I was not, and you weren't wrong either.
Also, Orthodox Jews don't even learn about Christianity, for retarded reasons (they don't want to risk people converting), and most people just don't care enough. The Bible doesn't really interest me much more than any other history book (there are some historically proven facts in the Bible), and the New Testament is just a bunch of people saying stuff about the supposed son of God (Jesus himself didn't believe that). I know the basic stuff, such as the Sermon on the Mount, but I don't know the names of the apostles, and don't forget that they've undergone some changes in translation (such as Saul into Paul).
Last edited by jimmyled at Dec 23, 2009,
#30
I think they should be sectioned.

Imagine if I came out and said I can't leave my house on a sunday because if the security light comes on I will be tormented by demons for eternity!

God I hate some people.
#31
Quote by jimmyled
Well, I'm a Jew (not Jewish though) from Israel, so for me, Bible means Old Testament. He was wrong, I was not, and you weren't wrong either.


He wasn't wrong, the Bible DOES say that.
You WERE wrong since the Bible isn't just wat you believe it to be, to 99% of the Western World it is both the Old and New Testament.
#32
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#33
Quote by tushmeister
He wasn't wrong, the Bible DOES say that.
You WERE wrong since the Bible isn't just wat you believe it to be, to 99% of the Western World it is both the Old and New Testament.

He was wrong because he stated an irrelevant fact. Jews don't consider the New Testament to be part of the Bible, and thus him quoting a passage from it is just a mistake. And most of the world are not Christian.
#34
Quote by jimmyled
He was wrong because he stated an irrelevant fact. Jews don't consider the New Testament to be part of the Bible, and thus him quoting a passage from it is just a mistake. And most of the world are not Christian.

Christianity is the dominant religion in the West.
#35
Quote by MightyAl
Christianity is the dominant religion in the West.

Hmm... I'll give you that. I don't know why I'm so pissed off today, so some, if not all, of my comments are not completely thought out.
#36
^ *sighs* Irrelevant doesn't mean wrong, and I'd argue quite happily he wasn't saying anything irrelevant. This is a redundant religious rule, as is the idea of removing a body part if it causes you to sin, he didn't state it was related to this story specifically, he saidf 'IN THE BIBLE@, which links into my next point;

I also didn't say most of the world WAS Christian, I do, however, believe most of the Western world is aware of the terminology used regarding religions, the Bible is a Christian text, the Torah is a Jewish text, the Qu'uran a text of Islam etc.
#37
Quote by jimmyled
Hmm... I'll give you that. I don't know why I'm so pissed off today, so some, if not all, of my comments are not completely thought out.

Tell your dad you're gay, maybe he'll buy you a prostitute, and it'll cheer you up.

Well, it's an idea.
#38
Quote by tushmeister
^ *sighs* Irrelevant doesn't mean wrong, and I'd argue quite happily he wasn't saying anything irrelevant. This is a redundant religious rule, as is the idea of removing a body part if it causes you to sin, he didn't state it was related to this story specifically, he saidf 'IN THE BIBLE@, which links into my next point;

I also didn't say most of the world WAS Christian, I do, however, believe most of the Western world is aware of the terminology used regarding religions, the Bible is a Christian text, the Torah is a Jewish text, the Qu'uran a text of Islam etc.

A) OK, I didn't understand what he meant (assuming what you're saying is true).
B) The Torah isn't the only Jewish religious text, there's also Nevi'eem and Ktuvim, which together make the Old Testament (which I thought means Bible ).
And yes, in the Western world Christianity is the dominant religion, you're right.
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Well, it's an idea.

Last edited by jimmyled at Dec 23, 2009,