#1
Ok, so im looking into buying a Peavey Valve king head, I've got the cash for it, but won't have the cash for the cabinet until the end of january, and my current amp doesn't have an external speaker out. Could I just use my P.A. speaker as a substitute until I have the cash for the speaker cab?

I have a Passive Tapco 6912, 250 watts RMS into 8 ohms. 12" speaker and 1" Compression driver.

It would only be a temporary solution, I know for a fact that the price of the head will go up and I want to get the best value for money on it.

Advice ASAP would be really appreciated.
#2
No...the power of the distortion from the amp will blow a P.A speaker and then ur amp will die...
#3
I'm not sure about the PA, but you don't need a speaker out on your combo to use it. You just wire a speaker cable directly to the speakers.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#6
Quote by toshiro umezewa
He's talking about the head, not the combo.

No he said 'my current amp doesn't have an external speaker out' which leads me to believe he has a combo now. He can use that combo as a cab.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#8
Quote by denied
noo...the thread title explicitly says "head"...

Will you read my post you jackass. The TS is getting a new head, and has an old amp, which I believe to be a combo. Otherwise why would he say 'won't have the cash for the cabinet until the end of january, and my current amp doesn't have an external speaker out?' He should know he can't use a head as a cabinet, so if he's considering that, then it is a combo. So the next person that wants to comment on this, why don't you read the whole thread not the title and my post.

Until the TS comes back and answers we don't know if his current amp is a head or combo. If it is a combo then he can use that as a cab. So, stop telling me that he wants to buy a head.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#9
Use the speakers on the combo by rigging up your own cable to the speakers, easy.
Power handling might be an issue, what combo is it?

To answer you question, yes, the PA cab would be perfectly fine.
It's not going to sound very good, but so long as your amp head has an 8ohm output selection, it'll work.

Why on earth would it blow, Orethor?!
#10
Yea it has an ohm selection, which wouldn't be a problem. My last combo doesn't have a speaker out, but that combo's died, hence why im upgrading. The combo im using at the moment is literally just a 5 watt squier. So I would literally blow it up if trying to use a 100 watt valve head with it. I know it wouldn't sound great but would it work is the question, if not i'll borrow a cab of my cousin until i can afford the cab.
#11
Quote by Rutch
Use the speakers on the combo by rigging up your own cable to the speakers, easy.
Power handling might be an issue, what combo is it?

To answer you question, yes, the PA cab would be perfectly fine.
It's not going to sound very good, but so long as your amp head has an 8ohm output selection, it'll work.

Why on earth would it blow, Orethor?!



because when a valve amp is driven into distortion the amount of power produced is way more than a pa speaker, which is only designed to handle line level hi fi signals, to handle.

the hf driver will blow and then there wont be a load on the amp and it will be damaged
#12
Quote by Orethor
because when a valve amp is driven into distortion the amount of power produced is way more than a pa speaker, which is only designed to handle line level hi fi signals, to handle.

the hf driver will blow and then there wont be a load on the amp and it will be damaged



Do you realize how much this post you just made doesn't make sense?
TS is talking about a passive P.A., wich means that it's made to "handle" the output of a power amp, not a line level output.
#13
Quote by Sguit

Do you realize how much this post you just made doesn't make sense?
TS is talking about a passive P.A., wich means that it's made to "handle" the output of a power amp, not a line level output.



Ok my bad, ignore the line level part, actully cant remmber why i put that bit in. However a pa speaker is still only designed only to handle a "clean" "hi fi" signal, P.A speakers arn't designed to handle a distorted signal like the one produced by a guitar amplifier.
#14
Quote by Orethor
Ok my bad, ignore the line level part, actully cant remmber why i put that bit in. However a pa speaker is still only designed only to handle a "clean" "hi fi" signal, P.A speakers arn't designed to handle a distorted signal like the one produced by a guitar amplifier.


See, that isn't true either, a speaker is a speaker, it converts wathever signal is fed into it into sound. The only reason a speaker could get damaged or could blow up is if it receives a signal that's louder than it can handle. It doesn't matter if it's distorted or not.
#15
Quote by Sguit
See, that isn't true either, a speaker is a speaker, it converts wathever signal is fed into it into sound. The only reason a speaker could get damaged or could blow up is if it receives a signal that's louder than it can handle. It doesn't matter if it's distorted or not.



i fort id still be argued with so please direct ur attention here

http://www.ax84.com/faq.html#hifi-vs-mi

HES USING A PA SPEAKER WITH A 1 INCH COMPRESSION DRIVER...a 1 inch driver cant handle that much energy.
#16
If ya ever been to a concert, I can assure you there is a WHOLE LOT of distorted signal being fed to the PA mains, under many thousands more watts than any amp could ever produce.

It is true that speakers designed specifically for PA applications don't like to become distorted themselves, but it's not like guitar speakers are somehow "tougher", in fact it's generally the opposite. But cranking a greenback to within an inch of it's life sounds good (IMHO), a crummy 1" horn farting out on a 2-way PA box does not (again, IMHO!).

250watts RMS power handling equals, you guessed it, 250watts RMS power handling.

EDIT: I see your link, and I see where you're coming from, but it still doesn't apply in this situation. If the amp was 100 watts, and the PA box was 100 watts, you'd be right as rain.

But it's 250, and while I don't know what the output of TS's new amp is, I doubt it's half that. Wiggle room, he has it.

You raise a good point though, although this is exactly why people need 200 watt cabs for their 100 watt Marshall.

Unless you were SURE to never overdrive your tube amp, you'll need extra "room" on your speakers, over and above your amp's rated CLEAN output.
Last edited by Rutch at Dec 23, 2009,
#17
Quote by Orethor
i fort id still be argued with so please direct ur attention here

http://www.ax84.com/faq.html#hifi-vs-mi

HES USING A PA SPEAKER WITH A 1 INCH COMPRESSION DRIVER...a 1 inch driver cant handle that much energy.

Listen folks, this guy has a perfectly valid point.

Either way it's irrelevant, as a guitar head plugged into a full-range speaker will sound absolutely awful. I mean, completely unusable. There will be so much high-end that it'll be painful.
#18
Quote by Orethor
i fort id still be argued with so please direct ur attention here

http://www.ax84.com/faq.html#hifi-vs-mi

HES USING A PA SPEAKER WITH A 1 INCH COMPRESSION DRIVER...a 1 inch driver cant handle that much energy.


Ok, I understand your point now, but it only applies if you crank your amp all the way into overdrive, it has nothing to do with the fact the sound is overdiven.
Anyway, I maybe wrong

Edit: But yeah, like Kyle said, it will sound like crap anyway.
Last edited by Sguit at Dec 23, 2009,
#19
exactly.... but Im really annoyed because if this guy goes and busts his amp up its not fair is it....you guys that think its ok to use a pa speaker with a 100 watt head then u try it with ur own amps first before u tell someone else its safe...

I sure as hell wouldnt try it with mine
#20
I once used 6 ohms speakers from my stereo in a friend's musicman amp(tubes), we cranked the volume all the way up and I was using EMG's, the speakers survived a 2 hours rehersal and still function fine. But we got only to light rock distortion level, I don't know what would happen in death metal territory.
#21
Quote by Orethor
exactly.... but Im really annoyed because if this guy goes and busts his amp up its not fair is it....you guys that think its ok to use a pa speaker with a 100 watt head then u try it with ur own amps first before u tell someone else its safe...

I sure as hell wouldnt try it with mine


The fact that the compression driver is likely a lower power handling unit than the 12" below is precisely the reason for the crossover. I would bet plenty that with a 1" and a 12", the crossover cap is set at a very high allowable frequency, allowing a fairly limited amount of signal through period, let alone guitar signal (not that high, guys...). The 12" is probably used as a full frequency driver, meaning it will receive a portion of that higher frequency as well, taking even more heat off the 1" (literally).

Again, see my edit, you're right that a 250 watt PA cab couldn't handle a 250 watt guitar amp, but he's got room.
#22
Quote by Rutch
The fact that the compression driver is likely a lower power handling unit than the 12" below is precisely the reason for the crossover. I would bet plenty that with a 1" and a 12", the crossover cap is set at a very high allowable frequency, allowing a fairly limited amount of signal through period, let alone guitar signal (not that high, guys...). The 12" is probably used as a full frequency driver, meaning it will receive a portion of that higher frequency as well, taking even more heat off the 1" (literally).

Again, see my edit, you're right that a 250 watt PA cab couldn't handle a 250 watt guitar amp, but he's got room.

I agree that the crossover will be high enough not to damage the tweeter, and we haven't even taken into account the fact that few people get the chance to push a 100W or 50W valve amp past about halfway anyway, except very occasionally in the studio.

No matter how much we debate the theory behind it, the fact is it should work (at a fairly small risk to the amp as long as the impedence matches) but it'll sound so dreadful there's really no reason to ever try.
#23
Quote by kyle62
...it'll sound so dreadful there's really no reason to ever try.


Now THAT I will fully embrace!

You know me, technicalities are all I have...
#24
Quote by Rutch
Now THAT I will fully embrace!

You know me, technicalities are all I have...

Haha, nothing wrong with giving the OP a little primer on speakers...
#25
This thread is full of fail and arguments. Sums up this forum, really.


It'll work, but I'd just wait until you can afford a cab. The sad feeling you get not being able to play your new amp will just make it even better when you get the cab.
If video games make you violent, does monopoly make you a millionaire?
#26
Quote by Juadafi
This thread is full of fail and arguments. Sums up this forum, really.

Actually its full of discussion between knowledgeable parties that eventually come to an educated conclusion, much like this forum. All your statement sums up is your attitude.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#27
Thanks for all the info guys, I knew it'd sound crap, I just wanted the chance to play it. I've got a cab which im borrowing off my cousin in the mean time now, So it's all good

But can't wait now til I can get the cab.

Thanks for everything.