#1
Is it just me ... or does it seem that when you walk into a guitar store ... the Epiphones and such Have Cooler paint jobs than the Real Gibsons .... and Cheap strat knock offs tend to have cooler paint jobs than the real strats ... it just seems like the big boys always have very plain boring looking paint jobs ... not always .. just a generalization of my guitar store browsing experiences

i just wonder why
Originally posted by adVENTURA
if your in a punk band just do like Lars and Tim in rancid and scream like you got marbles in your mouth.

Check out my Music Here
#2
Quote by Dezerado
Is it just me ... or does it seem that when you walk into a guitar store ... the Epiphones and such Have Cooler paint jobs than the Real Gibsons .... and Cheap strat knock offs tend to have cooler paint jobs than the real strats ... it just seems like the big boys always have very plain boring looking paint jobs ... not always .. just a generalization of my guitar store browsing experiences

i just wonder why


Its a gimmick to make the cheaper ones sell faster.
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#3
Quote by TechnoLp
Its a gimmick to make the cheaper ones sell faster.


most probably true
while the cheaper ones might look more flashy look at the burst on a fender or a gibson
the look more genuine
#4
you shop with your eyes......

with a bit of research on manufacturers websites you can filter the crap, stop shopping with your eyes and use your ears...
#5
Well, partly. I work in a guitar store, and we always polish up the cheaper guitars and direct the flashlights at them. It's a good sales trick to make them epi's and squiers more attractive, and for obvious reasons, it's not as effective with expensive guitars.
#6
the cheaper ones are usually finished with poly, while the more expensive ones(Fender Custom Shops, any Gibsons) are usually finished with nitro finish, poly shines way more than nitro, but doesn't age at all, whatsoever, unless you help it out(ALOT).

Nitro finish usually has a less "gliding" feel on it, and can often feel unatractive to most players. WORN nitro finish in my opinion, feels great, "woody" and glides along the back of the neck perfectly. Nitro finish is often the reason that some guitars are more expensive(most Custom Shop Strats go for more than 2k, while most standard gibsons also sell in the 2k-3k price, and don't even talk about customs and signatures)
#7
Quote by ziggymidget
Well, partly. I work in a guitar store, and we always polish up the cheaper guitars and direct the flashlights at them. It's a good sales trick to make them epi's and squiers more attractive, and for obvious reasons, it's not as effective with expensive guitars.


I've seen a shop put an ESP Eclipse directly above a light, really bad move you could clearly see rusty strings and it was dirty as hell. I mean if you're gonna showcase a guitar at least put the effort in to make it look attractive.
#8
If by cooler paint jobs, you mean crazy, off the wall designs, then yeah, maybe. Gibsons typically stick to conservative paint jobs (with exceptions to certain guitars like the zootsuit, ew...)

But as far as the quality of actual finishes go. I have yet to ever see an Epiphone that has a sunburst as nice as something like this...

Last edited by al112987 at Dec 25, 2009,
#9
Quote by ibanezgod1973
you shop with your eyes......

with a bit of research on manufacturers websites you can filter the crap, stop shopping with your eyes and use your ears...


This. It's great to find something that looks amazing and sounds/feels great, but choosing a guitar with lesser quality/inferior sound because it looks better to you is not a good idea.

Quote by TechnoLP
Its a gimmick to make the cheaper ones sell faster.


Also this.

EDIT: ^ That's absolutely gorgeous.
Last edited by TheBadPlace at Dec 25, 2009,
#10
your looking at the wrong Gibsons and Fenders, when I saw a Darkfire in person I was blown away by the finish, probably the nicest looking guitar I've ever seen in person. If you look at a faded or raw power LP though, those finishes are garbage IMO. The raw powers look like they were painted with house paint.
#11
Not to say that Epiphones or these second hands like Squiers are bad... they are just for the less rich kind of player...
#12
lol well i had an Epi les paul copy years go .. i've outgrown the Dead flat pickups they tend to have so i'll never buy another one (besides that semi hollow body i had to take back because it had such a feedback problem) but a hollow can have dead sounding pick ups .. it doesn't hurt IMO, but i Traded it in for a Peavey Tube Amp ... so all is good lol. Its not that i don't know why a gibson is 3k plus and a epi is 400 bucks lol ... i guess most people that have 3k aren't looking for Flashy guitars... if they were they'd buy a jackson ... they're just flashy IMO... but great for metal i hear ... i don't play metal so i've never messed with them
Originally posted by adVENTURA
if your in a punk band just do like Lars and Tim in rancid and scream like you got marbles in your mouth.

Check out my Music Here
#13
same sort of reason this



sells quicker than this



they sell better to beginners. i'm a much bigger fan of the LP myself, but most of the kids who start want to be metal masters. at least for a few years. so the "tacky" guitars do pretty well.
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#14
wow!... a BC rich ... i haven't seen one of those in years ... i didn't even know they still made those...... damn those warlocks of evil!
Originally posted by adVENTURA
if your in a punk band just do like Lars and Tim in rancid and scream like you got marbles in your mouth.

Check out my Music Here
#16
If your just talking about the quality of the finish Gibson and Fender USA use Nitro finishes that are usually fair as far as being smooth and not very durable at all. If you hold a Gibson up to the light and look at the finish you'll see how wavy it is because it's so thin, with poly you get a smooth glass like finish that will not absorb anything and deteriorate the finish like nitro. I collected Gibsons for years and the only thing I disliked was the choice of the Nitro finsh. Some people will argue Nitro is better because it lets the wood breath and has better tone I find that laughable. There are plenty of high end guitars made that use poly finishes. IMO the tone differences are negligible to say the least. 90% of the people out there couldn't tell the difference. Most people that will argue the Nitro is better are the guys who paid 3k and can't admit a cheaper guitar can be just as good if not better. As far as Epis trans tops go I have compared them to Gibsons side by side and Epiphone seems use AAA book match tops all the time they are much better and have better deeper graining. There are some nice Gibson tops out there don't get me wrong but they are far and few between. I'll add Gibson does go out of it's way to use good AAA tops on their custom shop models the best tops I have ever seen on Gibby's were on custom shops. If they put a Nitro finish on an Epi it would double the price and not add very little in tone if any at all.

As far as a lot of graphics it all depends on the guitar and if it's someones signature copy. There are some high end guitar out there with crazy graphics. Some of the lower end guitars are flashy just to attract more younger kids to get involved in playing and IMO it's a good marketing tool once you get them playing then you can sell them a better guitar if they stick with it.


John
#17
it's cause if you know what your looking for you don't give a **** about paint jobs.
#18
Quote by willwelsh816
the cheaper ones are usually finished with poly, while the more expensive ones(Fender Custom Shops, any Gibsons) are usually finished with nitro finish, poly shines way more than nitro, but doesn't age at all, whatsoever, unless you help it out(ALOT).


I'd say "This" But isn't Nitro, uh, "Restricted" (I can't think of a better word for it) In massive amounts?
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#19
Nitro is very volatile. It's explosive, expensive and toxic as hell it's not restricted so much as there are a lot of regulations from OSHA and NIOSH regarding health and safety of workers doing the work and the air filtration, spark proof rooms etc, so it doesn't get released in the atmosphere you need very expensive filtration system and everything electrical has to be sealed you don't hit a switch create a spark and cause an explosion from the fumes. I spent 2 years in a paint booth painting with several different types of finishes Nitro being one. We had to wear so much protective gear using equipment that was made of materials that if dropped didn't create a spark it was considered hazardous work we had to take classes and all that. That was back in the late 80s I could imagine what the regulations are like now with the explosive nature of it I am sure it's regulated under parts of the patriot act. You can see why Gibson nitro finished guitars can be double the price of a faded or worn finish version. The worse part of it is the finish doesn't have a long life!

Quote: "Drawbacks of these lacquers (Nitrocellulose) include the hazardous nature of the solvent, which is flammable, volatile and toxic; and the handling hazards of nitrocellulose in the lacquer manufacturing process. Lacquer grade of soluble nitrocellulose is closely related to the more highly nitrated form which is used to make explosives."

This is why it's so expensive to use!

John
#20
Quote by johnro6659
Nitro is very volatile. It's explosive, expensive and toxic as hell



soooo, what your saying is ... Nitro finishes are ... much like rock'n roll itself ... I"M SOLD!
Originally posted by adVENTURA
if your in a punk band just do like Lars and Tim in rancid and scream like you got marbles in your mouth.

Check out my Music Here
#21
Quote by johnro6659
If your just talking about the quality of the finish Gibson and Fender USA use Nitro finishes that are usually fair as far as being smooth and not very durable at all. If you hold a Gibson up to the light and look at the finish you'll see how wavy it is because it's so thin, with poly you get a smooth glass like finish that will not absorb anything and deteriorate the finish like nitro. I collected Gibsons for years and the only thing I disliked was the choice of the Nitro finsh. Some people will argue Nitro is better because it lets the wood breath and has better tone I find that laughable. There are plenty of high end guitars made that use poly finishes. IMO the tone differences are negligible to say the least. 90% of the people out there couldn't tell the difference. Most people that will argue the Nitro is better are the guys who paid 3k and can't admit a cheaper guitar can be just as good if not better. As far as Epis trans tops go I have compared them to Gibsons side by side and Epiphone seems use AAA book match tops all the time they are much better and have better deeper graining. There are some nice Gibson tops out there don't get me wrong but they are far and few between. I'll add Gibson does go out of it's way to use good AAA tops on their custom shop models the best tops I have ever seen on Gibby's were on custom shops. If they put a Nitro finish on an Epi it would double the price and not add very little in tone if any at all.

As far as a lot of graphics it all depends on the guitar and if it's someones signature copy. There are some high end guitar out there with crazy graphics. Some of the lower end guitars are flashy just to attract more younger kids to get involved in playing and IMO it's a good marketing tool once you get them playing then you can sell them a better guitar if they stick with it.


John
John, the tops on Epiphones are not flame maple tops, they're veneers and up until a few years ago, they were photo-flames that could literally be scratched off once the top coats of finish were stripped.
Last edited by al112987 at Dec 28, 2009,
#22
Quote by johnro6659
The worse part of it is the finish doesn't have a long life!

Actually, that's the best part about the finish!
The initial tone difference between a properly done poly finish and a nitro finish is, to the best of my ability to distinguish, either small or in my head. The real strength of nitro is that it thins out really beautifully, and opens up the tone of the instrument when as it does (again, it could be the wood and not the finish aging, it's hard to tell).

My LP is 15 years old and it's lost a lot of the finish on the back and sides, and looks really nicely aged. My friend's poly-finished strat of about the same age looks almost as shiny as it did out of the box. Both are nice aesthetically, but it highlights the difference between nitro and poly - one ages, the other does not.
#23
i hear that if ya freeze guitars with Nitrogen that it pulls the Molecules in tight together (which is what i hear makes an aged heavily played guitar sound so much better ) and it kinda simulates years of "ripening" ... i wonder why guitar companies don't do that ...
Originally posted by adVENTURA
if your in a punk band just do like Lars and Tim in rancid and scream like you got marbles in your mouth.

Check out my Music Here
#24
Quote by Dezerado
i hear that if ya freeze guitars with Nitrogen that it pulls the Molecules in tight together (which is what i hear makes an aged heavily played guitar sound so much better ) and it kinda simulates years of "ripening" ... i wonder why guitar companies don't do that ...


Because really cold and really hot temperatures are bad for your guitar. There's a reason you're supposed to store them at room temperature.
#25
Quote by Dezerado
i hear that if ya freeze guitars with Nitrogen that it pulls the Molecules in tight together (which is what i hear makes an aged heavily played guitar sound so much better ) and it kinda simulates years of "ripening" ... i wonder why guitar companies don't do that ...

It cracks the hell out of the finish, that's why.
#26
Quote by al112987
John, the tops on Epiphones are not flame maple tops, they're veneers and up until a few years ago, they were photo-flames that could literally be scratched off once the top coats of finish were stripped.


I wanted to make sure before I posted a reply to this. Epiphone never used Photo Print tops I got this right from one of my friends at Gibson.

Copy of my Email reply:

"Hi John,

On the Epiphone Les Paul models with maple tops, we use a ½” maple cap, with a ¼” real AAA maple veneer on the top. We don’t use a print or decal for the maple grain nor ever have. I hope this helps!"

I knew this because of all the Epis I have worked on over the years but wanted confirmation before I posted. So your talking a 3/4" maple cap altogether.

So most likely if your Epi has a photo print top it is a counterfeit.


John
Last edited by johnro6659 at Dec 30, 2009,
#27
who would counterfeit a epi lol .... thats like making a counterfeit Ford Pinto... seems like they would spend as much money making it as they could sell it for ... that would just be odd
Originally posted by adVENTURA
if your in a punk band just do like Lars and Tim in rancid and scream like you got marbles in your mouth.

Check out my Music Here
#28
my roomat plays a mex. strat. nice guitar. its got a red candy paint finish which looks good. in the same room is his bandmates american sunburst strat. the american strat does look more dull. however you can see the wood grain and tell its great wood, and it feels good to the touch. very well done fade/burst too. its nice. but across the room, yeah its not as flashy.

and epis are made to look like their big brothers, so they should have similar finishes. epi makes a silverburst custom that i dont think gibson does, but other than that they should be the same colors.

and yeah a epi will never be as good. gibson is using better finishes (better work and quality, that nitrocellulose stuff) and the woods are better so they will look better under the finish on top.
#29
Who would counterfeit Epis? Please! The Chinese that's who! Counterfeiting is a muti billion dollar industry in China. There are a lot of counterfeits Epis out there and a lot of people do not realize it because people do not think Epis are counterfeited. People have no problem paying 5 or 6 bills for an Epi Les Paul a counterfeit is only worth about $150.00 so that is 350 to 400 bucks profit. The most I ever saw a counterfeit Gibson sell for was $450.00 because most people will question a Gibsons authenticity if they sell it for 1000s. Surprise! They counterfeit Squiers as well! They are such cheap quality you really can not tell the difference.

I really can't believe how miss informed and gullible people really are in this day and age. And as far a wood and finishes go there are plenty of high end and custom guitar companies that do not use Nitro finishes or the same mahogany that Gibson does. Nitro is not that great. Yeah in the 50s and early 60s it was the best they could come up with but there are far better finishes made today.


John