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#1
I am currently using a fender FM212R, but it's damaged somehow (has too much feedback and high pitched squeals [have tried everything, it's not me, it's the amp] )

the other guitarist in my band recently bought a peavey valveking 100 and he loves it and so do i.. but i figured i should get something different to have a more unique sound, plus that's a little outside of my budget right now.. i live in edmonton, alberta, canada, and they go for $900 (with a cab). My budget i would say is max $700, preferably $500 - $600.. most people say tube is better, but i don't think it matters much as long as you have a decent amp.. it goes with the whole culturally influenced opinion that ohh anything vintage is awesome, hence tubes are epic and solid states are shit.. i don't really care, as long as it sounds decent..

i found two decent ones: fender FM 100H (same as my combo, only a stack), and a marshal mg100hfx (mg4 series).. now i know neither of these are considered good amps, but they are within my budget.. so don't be like oh those suck, you should get an engl or a mesa.. (btw, my bandmate used to have a mesa single rec, and it sounded like absolute shit.. not even exaggerating)

my band plays progressive metal and rock mainly, but everything else as well.. some classic rock, some jazz, reggae, thrash, iron maiden style metal, tool/dream theatre, rush etc etc.. so i need an amp that has an epic clean tone and some punch in your face distortion.. i currently use a boss gt-8, but i plan on upgrading to single pedals.. so i need a good amp to go with it..

suggestions, comments, advice..
#3
You say you have listed stacks that arent considered good, but you still want a halfstack?

Get a decent valve combo, you'll get far much more amp for the money.

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#4
If a mesa single rec sounded awful, it was probably either broken or you guys suck... Just saying.

Bugera gets really good reviews. They recently put out a 'vintage' series (V5, V22, V33 or something) that's getting rave reviews even from the people at The Gear Page, which is saying something given that crowd.

I also don't get why you're opposed to combo amps besides 'the look.' You'll widely expand your options and the price will be a lot cheaper if you consider stuff like the Marshall JCM 800 combo, the Peavey JSX, etc, many of which can be had used within your budget.
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#5
Peavey Windsor, best cheapest stack imo.
Matthew 7:7 ""Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."

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#6
Quote by Stud_Muffin
look into bugera, maybe the 6262?

+1

Or a 333XL
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#7
i know three people who've owned mesa rec's and they all say the same thing.. two of them had single and one had a triple.. i forgot to mention, they sounded like shit on low volumes.. high volume they sound epic but ONLY for death metal and numetal type stuff... they are not versatile at all..

and i don't think any retailers sell bugera over here.. might be able to get it online, but with shipping and all it might end up costing more..

yea the look is part of it.. kinda looks odd when i'm playing through a combo amp and the other guitarist has a huge stack.. but what combo amps would you suggest ? the marshal jcm 800's are no where near my price range, what are you talking about.. or maybe i just saw the vintage models.. but yea, i need an amp easily available through stores..
#8
Quote by magmachiller


yea the look is part of it.. kinda looks odd when i'm playing through a combo amp and the other guitarist has a huge stack.. but what combo amps would you suggest ? the marshal jcm 800's are no where near my price range, what are you talking about.. or maybe i just saw the vintage models.. but yea, i need an amp easily available through stores..



if the look is really that much of a problem, find a few empty cabs and stack them up. For your budget, a combo will suit you so much better. The new 6505+ combo is in your price range, if you're willing to sacrifice a little of the "epic cleans" for sheer ballsiness. If that doesn't tickle your pickle, try a used mesa combo or maybe a bugera.
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#9
Quote by magmachiller
i know three people who've owned mesa rec's and they all say the same thing.. two of them had single and one had a triple.. i forgot to mention, they sounded like shit on low volumes.. high volume they sound epic but ONLY for death metal and numetal type stuff... they are not versatile at all...


Um... I'll just say this hasn't been my experience and leave it at that. Then again I own the Lonestar and Maverick combos now, not the Triple or Dual Rec stacks, so my experience might differ from yours somewhat. But I have played the Mark V pretty extensively at my guitar store trying it out, and it does not AT ALL seem like a one (bad) trick pony.
Want: EH Deluxe Memory Man, Warmoth Strat, Budda Superdrive 45
#10
Quote by magmachiller
i know three people who've owned mesa rec's and they all say the same thing.. two of them had single and one had a triple.. i forgot to mention, they sounded like shit on low volumes.. high volume they sound epic but ONLY for death metal and numetal type stuff... they are not versatile at all..

and i don't think any retailers sell bugera over here.. might be able to get it online, but with shipping and all it might end up costing more..

yea the look is part of it.. kinda looks odd when i'm playing through a combo amp and the other guitarist has a huge stack.. but what combo amps would you suggest ? the marshal jcm 800's are no where near my price range, what are you talking about.. or maybe i just saw the vintage models.. but yea, i need an amp easily available through stores..


You'll be buying a penis enlarger instead of an amp.

Buy a decent combo, some 2x4" and a poster of a half stack if it matters that much.

Epiphone Les Paul Standard w/ SD Alnico Pro II's
Fender Aerodyne Telecaster & Stratocaster
Marshall JCM 800 4104 combo


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#11
Quote by magmachiller
the marshal jcm 800's are no where near my price range, what are you talking about.. or maybe i just saw the vintage models.. but yea, i need an amp easily available through stores..


A completed listings search on eBay just turned up two JCM 800 combos that went for $600. That's not bad.

Edit: But I guess I could see you not wanting to buy an amp through eBay...
Want: EH Deluxe Memory Man, Warmoth Strat, Budda Superdrive 45
#12
Poor mans JCM800 - Peavey Windsor
Matthew 7:7 ""Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."

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#14
yea the other mesa models are much better.. they sound epic on death magnetic.. just the rec's don't do it for me..

but yea i also forgot to mention, i need an amp atleast 100W.. be it combo or stack.. and since all of you are against stacks at this price range, i need an awesome 100W combo within my budget..

alot of people say the distortion isn't suitable for heavier stuff on a windsor.. and they're discontinued too apparently, so prolly won't be able to get it in stores..

also, the two i mentioned, what's specifically wrong with them ? i've seen quite a few sound demos of the marshall and it sounds pretty good.. the fender, i already own the combo, and while it's clean sound is the clearest i've ever heard, distortion isn't that good..

the only bugera's that are available to me are the 1990 classic 120W and the 1960 classic 150W.. both are about $450 (just for the head) so i guess yea they're in my price range.. couldn't find any combos..

are those any good ?
Last edited by magmachiller at Dec 26, 2009,
#15
Quote by magmachiller
i know three people who've owned mesa rec's and they all say the same thing.. two of them had single and one had a triple.. i forgot to mention, they sounded like shit on low volumes.. high volume they sound epic but ONLY for death metal and numetal type stuff... they are not versatile at all..



or you can learn how do dial in good tone...
#16
50W tube is more than you'll ever need. Dual recs take time to dial in your tone, though I agree they don't really stack up to some of the other mesa amps.

Bugera is a pretty good option
/rig
#18
Jesus this thread is a cluster ****. Where do I start?

1. A half stack is not necessary for you
2. 100w is not necessary for you
3. The MG4 is an overpriced, buzzy little amp that shouldn't exist in half stack form
4. Same with the FM100H, but even buzzier with slightly better cleans
5. If you're insistent on a new half stack, get a Bugera 6260/6262/333/333XL
6. I'd say get the combo version of either one over the half stack but I guess it's your money
7. Rectifiers are not only good for nu metal, countless guitarists of any genre you can name have used one. Allan Holdsworth lists the 2 channel model as the only amp he regrets not having anymore.
8. You would much rather have an amp with good distortion than a decent clean amp to use distortion pedals on
9. I'm willing to bet the reason you have so much feedback on your FM212 is because you have the gain set way too high
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#19
Well TS let me give you a lesson on wattage. Contrary to popular belief, volume does not increase linearly with volume. It follows a sort of logarithm. The pattern can be simplified to this simple rule, doubling wattage will only get you a tree decibel increase. 3 Db is the bare MINIMUM volume difference that the untrained human ear can pick up. Thus, a 100w amp is Barely louder than a 50w amp. And also, tube amps are much louder than their solid state counterparts. You could easily gig with a 30w tube combo.

EDIT: You might consider buying a good combo and later buying a nice 4x12 cab to use with the combo's external speaker outs. Just put the combo on top of the cab and viola, your penis is now 50% larger than your bandmate's .
Last edited by In The Mist at Dec 26, 2009,
#20
You know Axe Music across from Rexal place, they sell bugera (not sure if they have the specific ones in stock), they have a 6262 or 6260, its the poor mans 6505+ or 6505. They also have their online store.

Also checkout adds for used on kijiji.
You can get a Valveking head for like 350, and then find a cheap cab on kijiji too..

Also if you get the MG stack you will probably run into similar problems as your current amp (loud and annoying feedback) Its not gonna be as loud as a tube amp like the valveking with the same wattage...

Look into the Bugera 333XL and 6262, take a look at some of the combos, cause its not what you play its how you play it...

Also West End Rock Shop they have a Peavey Windsors in stock if you wanna check em out, I'm certain, I was there the other day.
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Last edited by Ethanb08 at Dec 26, 2009,
#21
Just get a 6505 1x12 combo. I doubt you really need "epic" cleans. The cleans aren't good on it, but it has good metal drive and that's probably more what you want.
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#22
mmolteratx:

1/2: i already said, i don't need one.. i'd like one..
3/4: well if they're buzzy then i will definitely not get them.. that's one thing i hate..
5/6: since alot of people agree, i will definitely try them out..
7: well then allan holdsworth should just go buy one.. i've played them, i've heard other people play them and they're not for me.. not versatile enough.. no amp can be the best.. there are always gonna be people who love it and some who hate it.. like cannibal corpse.. they sound like regurgitated shit, but alot of people love them.. but i digress..
8: i agree
9: no.. like i said, anything that you can think of, i have tried.. apart from taking it in to the repair shop..

In The Mist:
i know.. the difference in a 10W amp and a 100W amp is technically only 10db's.. but that 10db makes alot of difference.. the difference between a siren and a jet engine is only 10db's as well, but your ear drums will not survive the full force of a jet engine..
the relationship between sound power and power level is logarithmic yes.. but the intensity of the power level is exponential..

and i agree that even with a 30W tube amp i'd be able to do small gigs (clubs, small venues etc) but we are most likely going to be doing a show at an outdoor amphitheatre in the near future.. there is no way in hell i can power the entire park with a 30W amp.. granted that it is possible.. i would be running it through the p.a. obviously, but they'd have to turn my amp up and the gain on the pa up etc.. i.e. more feedback and more buzz..

ethanb08:
do they ? well then i'll be sure to drop by and try some out..

windsors like i said aren't that good for heavy stuff.. so dunnu.. but if i find one i will try it out though..


all in all, i will definitely try some bugeras.. but if i don't find one in my price range or i don't like it, should i just get the valveking ? any problems with that one ?
#23
and what is with all the hatred towards stacks ? i absolutely hate it when people shun certain things just because noobs like them for the wrong reasons..

axe music (local store) apparently has a bugera 6262 boutique style 120W head for $605.. and they also have a bugera 6262 boutique style 120W combo amp for $715.. now the ONLY difference between the two is that one has two speakers stuck with it.. i can just save up an extra hundred or so and get a cab.. so why should i not do that ? or would getting a stack make me uncool ?

if you guys meant that if i want to spend a certain amount of money, for that i'd get more amp if i got a combo, then ok yea i agree.. combo = amp + 1 or 2 speakers.. stack = amp + 4 speakers.. obviously the latter is going to be more expensive.. but don't say it like **** stacks.. booo.. get a combo, that's what real players use..
#24
Quote by mmolteratx
Jesus this thread is a cluster ****. Where do I start?

1. A half stack is not necessary for you
2. 100w is not necessary for you
3. The MG4 is an overpriced, buzzy little amp that shouldn't exist in half stack form
4. Same with the FM100H, but even buzzier with slightly better cleans
5. If you're insistent on a new half stack, get a Bugera 6260/6262/333/333XL
6. I'd say get the combo version of either one over the half stack but I guess it's your money
7. Rectifiers are not only good for nu metal, countless guitarists of any genre you can name have used one. Allan Holdsworth lists the 2 channel model as the only amp he regrets not having anymore.
8. You would much rather have an amp with good distortion than a decent clean amp to use distortion pedals on
9. I'm willing to bet the reason you have so much feedback on your FM212 is because you have the gain set way too high
+1
#25
Quote by magmachiller
*Long ass rant*

Well first of all, Holdsworth just can't "buy" one. They stopped making them, and they're pretty hard to find. I don't know what you're talking about with the whole siren and jet engine thing. If your talking about a police siren, those are definately more than 10 Db quieter than a jet plane. A jet engine at 100 feet is about 140 db. 130 is enough to cause serious damage to people. If your talking about like air raid sirens, then yes you are right, the difference is about 10 db, but that still leaves 130 db (assuming you are standing 3 ft from it, as opposed to 100 for a jet engine), which is still enough to cause serious damage. The point I'm trying to make is that you don't NEED 100w. Any outdoor amphitheater should have a PA to mic your amp into.
#26
I saw a guy play to about 1,000 people outdoors with a miked up blues junior. You can easily play in a venue like you speak of with 30-50 tube watts into the PA. There won't be a lot of buzz. If you need a stack, then try Bugera out like other people have said.
Last edited by sg4ever at Dec 26, 2009,
#27
Quote by magmachiller
mmolteratx:

1/2: i already said, i don't need one.. i'd like one..
3/4: well if they're buzzy then i will definitely not get them.. that's one thing i hate..
5/6: since alot of people agree, i will definitely try them out..
7: well then allan holdsworth should just go buy one.. i've played them, i've heard other people play them and they're not for me.. not versatile enough.. no amp can be the best.. there are always gonna be people who love it and some who hate it.. like cannibal corpse.. they sound like regurgitated shit, but alot of people love them.. but i digress..
8: i agree
9: no.. like i said, anything that you can think of, i have tried.. apart from taking it in to the repair shop..

In The Mist:
i know.. the difference in a 10W amp and a 100W amp is technically only 10db's.. but that 10db makes alot of difference.. the difference between a siren and a jet engine is only 10db's as well, but your ear drums will not survive the full force of a jet engine..
the relationship between sound power and power level is logarithmic yes.. but the intensity of the power level is exponential..

and i agree that even with a 30W tube amp i'd be able to do small gigs (clubs, small venues etc) but we are most likely going to be doing a show at an outdoor amphitheatre in the near future.. there is no way in hell i can power the entire park with a 30W amp.. granted that it is possible.. i would be running it through the p.a. obviously, but they'd have to turn my amp up and the gain on the pa up etc.. i.e. more feedback and more buzz..

ethanb08:
do they ? well then i'll be sure to drop by and try some out..

windsors like i said aren't that good for heavy stuff.. so dunnu.. but if i find one i will try it out though..


all in all, i will definitely try some bugeras.. but if i don't find one in my price range or i don't like it, should i just get the valveking ? any problems with that one ?

its actually 3dB's... or close to around that.
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#28
Yah the windsor probably wont be your cup of tea, as its single channel, would need a boost for hi gain and the guitars volume knob for cleans...lol But I figured i'd let you know incase you wanted to try it out anyways.

Also I would say go for the head and a separate cab rather than combo. Combos are back breakers (especially a 100watt 2x12...lol) ... I'd recommend a 2x12 with your head, cause its lighter more portable and sounds fine, there is a difference in bass responce but normally EQing can solve that, ultimately though its up to you. I think axe sells a marshall 2x12 for like $200 ish. theres also a joe satriani one by peavey which will come out eventually ...but its more expensive and not out yet.

The Valveking would probably do, if you like it then go for it. But it may be a benefit to your bands sound to have something that mixs well with a valve king but isnt one.
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#29
Quote by magmachiller
I am currently using a fender FM212R, but it's damaged somehow (has too much feedback and high pitched squeals [have tried everything, it's not me, it's the amp] )

the other guitarist in my band recently bought a peavey valveking 100 and he loves it and so do i.. but i figured i should get something different to have a more unique sound, plus that's a little outside of my budget right now.. i live in edmonton, alberta, canada, and they go for $900 (with a cab). My budget i would say is max $700, preferably $500 - $600.. most people say tube is better, but i don't think it matters much as long as you have a decent amp.. it goes with the whole culturally influenced opinion that ohh anything vintage is awesome, hence tubes are epic and solid states are shit.. i don't really care, as long as it sounds decent..

i found two decent ones: fender FM 100H (same as my combo, only a stack), and a marshal mg100hfx (mg4 series).. now i know neither of these are considered good amps, but they are within my budget.. so don't be like oh those suck, you should get an engl or a mesa.. (btw, my bandmate used to have a mesa single rec, and it sounded like absolute shit.. not even exaggerating)

my band plays progressive metal and rock mainly, but everything else as well.. some classic rock, some jazz, reggae, thrash, iron maiden style metal, tool/dream theatre, rush etc etc.. so i need an amp that has an epic clean tone and some punch in your face distortion.. i currently use a boss gt-8, but i plan on upgrading to single pedals.. so i need a good amp to go with it..

suggestions, comments, advice..


1st bold: it matters a lot... a decent amp will be tube.
2nd bold: the marshall MG is ****ing horrible.

you do NOT need a stack, not at all. for you, as a beginning amateur musician, a stack is a HORRIBLE idea. they're big, heavy, an totally impractical for someone who just wants to begin gigging. get yourself a good tube combo. Bugera makes great stuff for that price, have a look at a Peavey Classic 30, or a used 5150 212 combo.
Last edited by Lt. Shinysides at Dec 27, 2009,
#30
simply stated, go used. I'm about to purchase a Peavey Classic 50 for 500 bucks. Used is just handsdown the better buy if you can actually check it out and play through it before hand to make sure that it works. In addition, I'd recommend a Peavey Classic 30/50. Pretty good cleans, can get nice overdrive tones just using the amps lead channel. Throw a good pedal on there (not my crappy Digitech 150, which sounded like shit), and I'm sure it will take you where you need to go
#31
Stacks are not your friend in this situation. Yes, noobs like them for the wrong reasons and yes, there aren't (m)any good ones for cheap.
I would LLOOVVEEEEEEE a JTM45 with two homebuilt 4x12 cabs loaded with Greenbacks, but there are two problems. 1) They are damn expensive, and 2) they are damn loud. Angus Young gigs with JTM45s (yes they are miced) and those are only 35 watts tube.

My suggestion would be to find a used Peavey Butcher or Peavey VTM or Laney AOR or new B-52 AT-112. Those used amps were made in the 80s and are rock solid hot rodded JCM800 (copies) They all can be found for $400 or less. The B-52 is a "poor man's Mesa" but not really. It is very versatile and very cheap and very loud. Sounds pretty good too.
#32
Quote by Lt. Shinysides
1st bold: it matters a lot... a decent amp will be tube.
Wrong.

Ampeg VH-140C, Roland JC, Peavey Bandit, Axe-FX, Line 6 Flextone/Vetta, Vypyr, Randall RG's and Roland Cubes.
#33
Quote by DIMEBAGLIVEDON
Wrong.

Ampeg VH-140C, Roland JC, Peavey Bandit, Axe-FX, Line 6 Flextone/Vetta, Vypyr, Randall RG's and Roland Cubes.



did you type wrong when you meant right...
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#34
Quote by AcousticMirror
did you type wrong when you meant right...
No.

A tube amp doesn't just mean good tone.

There are SS amps that are just as good as tube amps/decent SS amps.
#35
Quote by magmachiller
I am currently using a fender FM212R,...(has too much feedback and high pitched squeals [have tried everything, it's not me, it's the amp] )

...

i found two decent ones: fender FM 100H (same as my combo, only a stack), and a marshal mg100hfx (mg4 series)

...

now i know neither of these are considered good amps

You are full of contradictions.
#36
GREAT IDEA:
Find a used Vetta on eBay
You'll get good cleans, good distortion, and it's loud.
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#37
Quote by DIMEBAGLIVEDON
Wrong.

Ampeg VH-140C, Roland JC, Peavey Bandit, Axe-FX, Line 6 Flextone/Vetta, Vypyr, Randall RG's and Roland Cubes.



I wouldn't touch a single one of those. the only one i can consider good amps are the flextone and the vetta, which are both more than a thousand dollars. you can get a much nicer tube amp for that price.
#38
Quote by Lt. Shinysides
I wouldn't touch a single one of those. the only one i can consider good amps are the flextone and the vetta, which are both more than a thousand dollars. you can get a much nicer tube amp for that price.
If you wouldn't touch a Axe-Fx, you are crazy.

To each their own I guess. And lol, the Flextone is over 1000 dollars?

Yeah right. I can find one used for $300.

Obvious un-informed tube snob.
Last edited by DIMEBAGLIVEDON at Dec 27, 2009,
#39
Quote by magmachiller
and what is with all the hatred towards stacks ? i absolutely hate it when people shun certain things just because noobs like them for the wrong reasons..

axe music (local store) apparently has a bugera 6262 boutique style 120W head for $605.. and they also have a bugera 6262 boutique style 120W combo amp for $715.. now the ONLY difference between the two is that one has two speakers stuck with it.. i can just save up an extra hundred or so and get a cab.. so why should i not do that ? or would getting a stack make me uncool ?

if you guys meant that if i want to spend a certain amount of money, for that i'd get more amp if i got a combo, then ok yea i agree.. combo = amp + 1 or 2 speakers.. stack = amp + 4 speakers.. obviously the latter is going to be more expensive.. but don't say it like **** stacks.. booo.. get a combo, that's what real players use..
Look, I have a full stack and I don't advocate getting a stack unless you are insistent on a particular sound, which it's becoming painfully obvious that you are not. Otherwise, you would not be looking at such a huge range of amps or looking at pieces of shit like the MG or Frontman.

Here is the thing, as far as volume goes, you're not oging to have an issue playing whatever gig. If Queen can fill up giant stadiums with Brian May using 30 watt AC30s (which are not even a LOUD 30 watts like... say a Marshall JTM45), then I think you'll be just fine. Honestly if you think that 30 watts is what you're going to use to power a huge gig, then you have obviously never played a large gig in your life. NO large gig is going to be without a PA. And NO large gig is going to let you go onstage without having your sound mixed and projected through a PA. You can have a 100 watt full stack behind you, the sound man is going to make you turn it down to band level, mic it and then mix it.

What matters here is that you don't sacrifice quality for the sake of having the extra speakers. I use a head and cabinet instead of a combo for one reason, I wanted the tone of a vintage Marshall pushing a quad of greenbacks. Unless you have a specific tone in your head that you want and know that you can't get from a combo (which again, this does not seem like the case), then I wouldn't bother.

===========

TLDR: You don't want a stack because the sound, you want one because it's large and looks cool onstage. There is nothing wrong with that unless you are sacrificing sound quality for that. I think that my JTM45 and Marshall cabs are badass as hell, but at the same time, it's a JTM45 head and high end Marshall cabs. It's better to have a mid range combo than a low end stack. But I know that you don't have a legitimate reason for even wanting the stack tonewise because the difference between all the amps you are considering, are going to be about 10x more noticeable than whether you have a 2x12 combo, or the same amp w/ a 4x12 cab. If you have to ask "what halfstack?" then you really shouldn't be buying a halfstack.
Last edited by al112987 at Dec 27, 2009,
#40
Quote by DIMEBAGLIVEDON
If you wouldn't touch a Axe-Fx, you are crazy.

To each their own I guess. You are clearly a tube snob.



I must be crazy to not want something that is exactly the same as my logic 9, guitar-rig, and amplitude set-up. I mean if I'm a tube snob what does that make you...pick a price point above 300 and below 1000 and tell me which ss amp you think is better or decent compared to tubes in the same range.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
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