#1
My friend and I have been working on becoming better lead guitarist. But we are having trouble with scales that go into keys.
Can someone make a list of all or most of the key and the scales that can be used in them.(I know how to find key)
For example: If im in the key of E I know I can use the A minor scale in the progression for a good solo.

Can someone come up with a list for me please. I can't find it anywhere.

Thank you.
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Last edited by King of King V at Dec 26, 2009,
#2
First, use good grammar. My friend and I's? Good God.

Anyway, learn the major and minor scales. Try to find those scale diagrams, for every root note you can play from a 2nd or a 3rd and that is your exploration into modes. Your example of going into A minor in the key of E major works because they're relative. (Playing up the scale of E major you eventually find the aeolian mode which is A minor etc etc.) I suggest you look at some of Paul Gilbert's videos, he's big on modal playing and technique.

edit: Just study a bit on modes it's really simple. Find backing tracks in a key and play using what you learn from scale diagrams and such. The fun part is when you get to use your own phrasing and possible non chord tones and modulations and all that great stuff.
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Last edited by nivlarama at Dec 26, 2009,
#3
Quote by nivlarama
First, use good grammar. My friend and I's? Good God.

Anyway, learn the major and minor scales. Try to find those scale diagrams, for every root note you can play from a 2nd or a 3rd and that is your exploration into modes. Your example of going into A minor in the key of E major works because they're relative. (Playing up the scale of E major you eventually find the ionian mode which is A minor etc etc.) I suggest you look at some of Paul Gilbert's videos, he's big on modal playing and technique.



What are you talking about? Ionian mode A minor? False.

Ionian would be a so called "major" scale. "A minor" would be Aeolian in the key of C.
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#4
Quote by nivlarama
First, use good grammar. My friend and I's? Good God.

Anyway, learn the major and minor scales. Try to find those scale diagrams, for every root note you can play from a 2nd or a 3rd and that is your exploration into modes. Your example of going into A minor in the key of E major works because they're relative. (Playing up the scale of E major you eventually find the ionian mode which is A minor etc etc.) I suggest you look at some of Paul Gilbert's videos, he's big on modal playing and technique.


Sorry about the "my friend and I's" I didn't know how to word it and its our playing so it makes sense.

Any way I will try that, but the thing that gets me is how to know what goes where. I know both the major and Minor scale pattern down the neck, but when it come to someone playing a simple chord progression and lets say its in the key of D. I would not know what scales would sound good in the key of D.
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#5
woops HAHA I meant aeolian gosh. Well theory practice does brush off sometimes sigh.


edit:

D major/ionian [key], E dorian, F phrygian, G lydian.. and so on lmao. you get it? Also there's major pentatonic, and in some cases minor actually works out nicely too. So say we have D E F# G A B C# D, playing from the E and adding the E at the end gives us E dorian in the key of D. You start from E but keep the sharps of D major, and that applies for all the other scale tones too.
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Last edited by nivlarama at Dec 26, 2009,
#6
Quote by nivlarama
woops HAHA I meant aeolian gosh. Well theory practice does brush off sometimes sigh.


Yeah, it does brush off sometimes if you don't practice. But you're still wrong. Even with the correction. A minor is not E majors relative minor. They aren't even closely related keys. E major's signature contains 4 #'s and A minor has no accidentals.


Where's Bangoodcharlotte when you need her?
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Last edited by Artemis Entreri at Dec 26, 2009,
#7
Quote by Artemis Entreri
Yeah, it does brush off sometimes if you don't practice. But you're still wrong. Even with the correction. A minor is not E majors relative minor. They aren't even closely related keys. E major's signature contains 4 #'s and A minor has no accidentals.



agh sigh okay i give up, i believe i had the whole thing mirrored, i think i mean parallel its just a long day haha.
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#8
Quote by nivlarama
agh sigh okay i give up, i believe i had the whole thing mirrored, i think i mean parallel its just a long day haha.



You are mixing two methods. You're trying to find the mode using the circle of 5ths.

LIMDAPL...
FCGDAEB...

Instead you're going
LIMDAPL...
EFGABCD...


If you were to be playing the so called "a minor" scale in E, you would actually be playing the Lydian mode in relation to E ionian.
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Last edited by Artemis Entreri at Dec 26, 2009,
#9
Quote by nivlarama
woops HAHA I meant aeolian gosh. Well theory practice does brush off sometimes sigh.


edit:

D major/ionian [key], E dorian, F phrygian, G lydian.. and so on lmao. you get it? Also there's major pentatonic, and in some cases minor actually works out nicely too. So say we have D E F# G A B C# D, playing from the E and adding the E at the end gives us E dorian in the key of D. You start from E but keep the sharps of D major, and that applies for all the other scale tones too.



Im not to big on theory yet(after three years of lessions)

Im looking for something simple.

Lets say im using a simple power chord progression and Im in "A"
Now my friend plays this over and over. What can I use?
My teacher has tried modes with me for a long time and its confusing. So I would like it simple.

Keys: Scales:
A So and so scale
B So and so scale
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#10
Quote by Artemis Entreri
You are mixing two methods. You're trying to find the mode using the circle of 5ths.

LIMDAPL...
FCGDAEB...

Instead you're going
LIMDAPL...
EFGABCD...



say what? i'm only saying that in d ionian, the next note/scale e would be in dorian mode am i not right?
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#11
Quote by King of King V
Im not to big on theory yet(after three years of lessions)

Im looking for something simple.

Lets say im using a simple power chord progression and Im in "A"
Now my friend plays this over and over. What can I use?
My teacher has tried modes with me for a long time and its confusing. So I would like it simple.

Keys: Scales:
A So and so scale
B So and so scale



This is where learning theory would be the easiest way to do it. It follows a pattern, you just have to learn that pattern. It'll be a pain in the ass to memorize scales for each key.

But if you were playing in "A Major" you could easily get away with an A Major/F# minor scale. They are relative major and minor. Then you could also use the respective modes associated with "A Major." When you talk about playing different scales, you're probably just playing the same scale except in different locations on the neck.


say what? i'm only saying that in d ionian, the next note/scale e would be in dorian mode am i not right?


I don't entirely understand what you are saying. The next note in a D ionian scale would be E. The mode off of the E would be Dorian. So, yes, you're right. I think I misinterpreted what you were saying earlier as well. So YES. What you just said is correct.
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Last edited by Artemis Entreri at Dec 26, 2009,
#12
By definition, all major scales use the same interval sequence T-T-s-T-T-T-s, where S means a semitone and T means a whole tone (2 semitones). From the modal point of view, this interval sequence is called the Ionian or Major mode; it is one of the seven modern modes — seven because there are only seven diatonic notes that can be used as the tonic. Taking any major scale, a new scale is obtained by taking a different degree of the major scale as the tonic. Depending on the degree chosen, this new scale is in one of the other six modes...
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#13
Quote by nivlarama
By definition, all major scales use the same interval sequence T-T-s-T-T-T-s, where S means a semitone and T means a whole tone (2 semitones). From the modal point of view, this interval sequence is called the Ionian or Major mode; it is one of the seven modern modes — seven because there are only seven diatonic notes that can be used as the tonic. Taking any major scale, a new scale is obtained by taking a different degree of the major scale as the tonic. Depending on the degree chosen, this new scale is in one of the other six modes...



The only qualm I have with that definition is that a new MODE is created. Not a new scale. The scale, the notes, in my opinion, are the same. But the mode in which the notes are arranged is different. But yes.


To TS:

If you're playing legitimately in A Major and don't want to do anything fancy. Play the A major scale or A Major pentatonic. When you're playing power chords however, you take the third out of the chords. The third determines the quality of the chord; major or minor. So you can get away with playing A minor as well SOMETIMES, or keys closely related (1 accidental more or less.) But if you are playing triads, not power chords, you'd be best to play in the key of the backing music.
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Last edited by Artemis Entreri at Dec 26, 2009,
#14
Quote by Artemis Entreri
The only qualm I have with that definition is that a new MODE is created. Not a new scale. The scale, the notes, in my opinion, are the same. But the mode in which the notes are arranged is different. But yes.


again with my poor theoryness. gah.

okay i think i mean to say that, in d major/ionian d dorian would be played with that e. gosh im so full of fail. but whatever, this is the concept i go by when i improv.
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#15
Quote by Artemis Entreri
This is where learning theory would be the easiest way to do it. It follows a pattern, you just have to learn that pattern. It'll be a pain in the ass to memorize scales for each key.

But if you were playing in "A Major" you could easily get away with an A Major/F# minor scale. They are relative major and minor. Then you could also use the respective modes associated with "A Major." When you talk about playing different scales, you're probably just playing the same scale except in different locations on the neck.



Ok so I need to find the relative major and minor. How do I do this. I rember my teacher telling me about this, (or parallels) and once I have the relative I will know what to use?

I think you go up 3 half steps including that note right?
so If I have C major is relative minor would be A minor?
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#16
Quote by King of King V
Ok so I need to find the relative major and minor. How do I do this. I rember my teacher telling me about this, (or parallels) and once I have the relative I will know what to use?

I think you go up 3 half steps including that note right?
so If I have C major is relative minor would be A minor?



^ it's complicated stuff. Don't worry. I had to take a class to get any understanding of it. I still get a lot of stuff wrong.

To TS, you are correct. 3 half steps. You won't necessarily know what to use by finding the relative. It's just useful to know. The relative major and minor are in fact the same scale. Just differnet modes of that scale. They use the same notes arranged in a different order. C major, A minor. E major, G minor. Etc.

That could help you determine your box.

But honestly. Use your ears. That's the biggest piece of advice I can give. It's nice to know your theory but having strong ears is just as important. If a note sounds right, keep it. If it doesn't, trash it. Keep it simple right now.

In A major, play an A major pentatonic. In A minor, play an A minor pentatonic.
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#17
Quote by King of King V
Ok so I need to find the relative major and minor. How do I do this. I rember my teacher telling me about this, (or parallels) and once I have the relative I will know what to use?

I think you go up 3 half steps including that note right?
so If I have C major is relative minor would be A minor?



let me correct myself here i still dont think you understand. like...if you keep going down the c major scale you'll find an A and from that spawns a minor, but thats not all you can play a "C" major scale and play from d within the same key of c and thats some different scale degree/scale w/e. this was how i was taught. so when you are gonna jam in a key you may play from the tonic ex: CDEFGABC but you can also do DEFGABCD and EFGABCDE etc etc.
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#18
Quote by nivlarama
let me correct myself here i still dont think you understand. like...if you keep going down the c major scale you'll find an A and from that spawns a minor, but thats not all you can play a "C" major scale and play from d within the same key of c and thats some different scale degree/scale w/e. this was how i was taught. so when you are gonna jam in a key you may play from the tonic ex: CDEFGABC but you can also do DEFGABCD and EFGABCDE etc etc.



Yes, but it takes a pretty good degree of thought and prior knowledge to actually emphasize the correct notes to the degree that it becomes apparent that you are framing your solo around a different mode.

We're getting ahead of ourselves here. Theory is designed to explain what composers and players do, not dictate. Do whatever you damn well please and if it catches on or if you become damn famous some theorist will write guidelines that explain what you do.
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Last edited by Artemis Entreri at Dec 26, 2009,