Do the differences between cultures prevent the existence of universal values?

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#1
Do the differences between cultures prevent the existence of universal values?

We had a debate/discussion about it at school a week ago and we will be having a second one in a week.

The debate was interesting but I had very little to contribute so I wanted to ask you; what do you think?

Share your thoughts and ideas!
#3
Yes. Unless the majority of people have access to valuable information and are well-informed, a unified collective will happen not. :3
#4
Yes they do, take the different religions for instance.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
#5
Quote by MightyAl
No, the differences between people do that.


The differences between people certainly do not prevent it. An individual difference (i.e. finding rape acceptable) will not be enough to sway some universal declaration. You need bigger numbers than that.
#6
Quote by Stormx
The differences between people certainly do not prevent it. An individual difference (i.e. finding rape acceptable) will not be enough to sway some universal declaration. You need bigger numbers than that.

Its not universal if there is a dissenting voice.
Everyone has to agree to make it universal.
#7
Our shared humanity creates shared values.
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#9
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Not everybody likes mint. Some people are indeed fucked in the head.
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#10
Quote by MightyAl
Its not universal if there is a dissenting voice.
Everyone has to agree to make it universal.


Inalienable rights and Universal Human Rights might not be believed in by all, but they apply to us all. (well, depending on the scope of the agreement)
#11
Quote by MightyAl
Its not universal if there is a dissenting voice.
Everyone has to agree to make it universal.

Not true. 'Universal' means believed everywhere - not believed by everyone. It is a universal belief that rape, theft, and murder in cold blood are wrong. The Green River Killer and John Wayne Gacy do not prevent this from being a universal belief. They are devients, and thus do not conform to any widespread belief system by definition. Their existence does not prove that rape, pedophelia, and murder are a-okay in the US.

Beliefs cannot be unanimous, but they can be universal.

All major religions share the same universal beliefs of, basically, being a stand-up guy. The reason they are not seen as universal is because most religions also tell their believers that they are better than everyone else, and thus those other people don't get the same rights.

The question to ask isn't how can we get people to all believe the same tenents universally, but how can we get people to apply those tenents universally.
#13
Quote by Beserker
At the moment yes, but with time (lots of it) this may change.


I think it's the other way around, actually.
Quote by Xplozive
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And then again, Wildthang, "You're probably NOT one of them clean Socialists, either"

Wat.
#15
Quote by MightyAl
Its not universal if there is a dissenting voice.
Everyone has to agree to make it universal.

The opposite actually. Universal morals are morals that are good or bad in spite of any dissenting voices. The definition of universal morals is that differences in race, gender, culture etc. cannot change whether actions are good or evil.
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#16
Just because people believe different things, doesn't mean only one can't be the truth. For example (though a stupid example) other cultures may believe that we don't have chairs in England, but that doesn't make it as true a view as mine.

I guess it depends on how you define truth, and what you judge as the source of values.
#17
I want to contribute to this thread, but I can't understand question......
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#18
Quote by TheBlessed Dead
The opposite actually. Universal morals are morals that are good or bad in spite of any dissenting voices. The definition of universal morals is that differences in race, gender, culture etc. cannot change whether actions are good or evil.

Morals =/= Values.
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#19
Quote by Jackal58
Morals =/= Values.

Define values for us.

(I'm not trying to be aggressive here btw, i actually think it'll help to be working off the same definition)
#21
Quote by Zoot Allures
Rights were invented you know..


Yes and the reason was because humans developed faculties for reasoning which allowed us to "invent" them...
#22
Quote by Nietsche
Yes and the reason was because humans developed faculties for reasoning which allowed us to "invent" them...

Yes but just because people can reason, doesn't mean their reasonings are universally true.

The concept of personal "rights" have existed ever since the very first most basic society. Back when we were hunting animals i'm sure the reasoned right was if you killed it it's yours, or maybe the biggest fella has the first rights to it, but does that make "if you killed it it's yours" or "biggest fella rules" universal values?
#23
I'm sure that the morality of killing another person is considered non-existent in most cases by most cultures.

Same with theft.

So no.
Quote by RedDeath9
Divinecrossfire...

Epic post. Wish I could say more, but I don't know much about the subconscious and other psychological stuff.
#25
Quote by thedefrockednun
Do the differences between cultures prevent the existence of universal values?

We had a debate/discussion about it at school a week ago and we will be having a second one in a week.

The debate was interesting but I had very little to contribute so I wanted to ask you; what do you think?

Share your thoughts and ideas!


What do you mean by "universal values"?
Is it still a God Complex if I really am God?

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Oscar Wilde
#26
Quote by Beserker
Explain.


Seeing as we are globalizing last few years, it's easier to communicate with people all around the world etc., I think there is a need for concensus and such. We can't communicate efficiently if we do not share the same values. Many conflicts arise over different values, and if we want to stop these conflicts, we will need to have the same values.
Just my point of view, although I'm not really sure if this will happen anytime soon
Quote by Xplozive
You sir are a dick!
Quote by Toppscore
And then again, Wildthang, "You're probably NOT one of them clean Socialists, either"

Wat.
#27
Quote by divinecrossfire
I'm sure that the morality of killing another person is considered non-existent in most cases by most cultures.

Same with theft.

So no.

How about honour killing?
Or people thinking stealing from big companies is fine? Killing in war?

ROBIN HOOD?!
#28
Quote by MadClownDisease
How about honour killing?
Or people thinking stealing from big companies is fine? Killing in war?

ROBIN HOOD?!


Good point. I'd like to add suicide to this list.

EDIT: when it's done to keep one's own dignity.
Quote by Xplozive
You sir are a dick!
Quote by Toppscore
And then again, Wildthang, "You're probably NOT one of them clean Socialists, either"

Wat.
Last edited by WildthingJR at Dec 27, 2009,
#29
Quote by MadClownDisease
How about honour killing?
Or people thinking stealing from big companies is fine? Killing in war?

ROBIN HOOD?!



I didn't say all.
Quote by RedDeath9
Divinecrossfire...

Epic post. Wish I could say more, but I don't know much about the subconscious and other psychological stuff.
#30
Quote by WildthingJR
Seeing as we are globalizing last few years, it's easier to communicate with people all around the world etc., I think there is a need for concensus and such. We can't communicate efficiently if we do not share the same values. Many conflicts arise over different values, and if we want to stop these conflicts, we will need to have the same values.
Just my point of view, although I'm not really sure if this will happen anytime soon

I was in a discussion with some friends a while back about a similar concept.

The existence of difference in values and beliefs doesn't mean there will always be conflict, it is when the application of these values steps on the toes of the application of someone else's and goes beyond the threshold of acceptability.
So long as the thresholds and barriers are maintainable whilst still living to different beliefs, nobody needs to change.
That's why different cultures exist, really. You distance yourself from applied values that conflict with your own aims. If you surround yourself with people with similar values to your own, you will find no conflict, so long as you all accept limitations on the applications of your beliefs.
#33
People can come up with whatever methods of living their life they wish. I don't see how someone can say that the way they think is better than someone elses.

Obviously i'm glad that children are socialised into not wanting to kill or attack people as it means there are less people out to get me.

Edit: I just realised i'm being a hypocrite as i'm criticising people who think their way of thinking is better. Which means I think my way of thinking is better...

Some questions have no answer I guess.
Last edited by Greenie_777 at Dec 27, 2009,
#34
Oh, in that case its the difference between people.

In EVERY culture you will find someone who doesn't like killing, and you will find someone who does. in EVERY culture you will find someone who steals, and someone who doesn't.
Quote by RedDeath9
Divinecrossfire...

Epic post. Wish I could say more, but I don't know much about the subconscious and other psychological stuff.
#35
Quote by divinecrossfire
Oh, in that case its the difference between people.

In EVERY culture you will find someone who doesn't like killing, and you will find someone who does. in EVERY culture you will find someone who steals, and someone who doesn't.

Oh of course, but that only shows that there are no universally accepted values in practice, which could answer the question, but then does that exclude the possibility that there be a universally "true" set of values?
#36
Quote by MadClownDisease
Then it's not universal.


It was said previously that universal applies to "everywhere" and not "everyone".
#37
So here are my definitions:

Morals: That which we believe ought to be correct, given normal circumstances. I would call ethics the same.

Legality: That which a certain society has deemed to be correct, given normal circumstances.

Values: What is important to us. This can include our morals, but also includes other things.

Rights: A list of things a society legally attributes to its members, based on the prevailing morals of the time.

Examples:

Stealing is legally wrong in almost every country. If someone is starving and you steal food to feed them, you are in the wrong, legally. Morally, you are not. It's not morally correct persay, but it's not wrong either.

Someone breaks into your house and threatens your wife. You shoot him. This may or may not be legal depending on your jurisdiction (it usually is, depending on 'necessary force' laws), but it is morally acceptable if he actually had the ability to cause harm.

The term for both of these things is 'morally justified.' Some courts use this term, in addition to 'guilty' and 'not guilty.' This doesn't mean it's okay - it means that a person of good morals would have done the same thing.

Rights are tricky. I consider them wholly legal, as that's how we get them. Rights are also distrubuted based on prevailing beliefs, and not strictly on morals. Until 1865, it was considered an American landowners' right to own slaves, as they were legally deemed to be property. However, the Christian values (and morals) the country was founded on say that since all human beings are equal in the eyes of God, no one can 'own' another.

Also, note that "God-given rights" vary from country to country, even those with the same religion. Also note that a right only applies to what the government can or cannot do to you. The second amendment means that the government cannot take away my shotgun. It means that I can speak out about my governmentand [people in my government. It does not mean that if I get married, my wife can't make me get rid of the shotgun. It also does not mean that I can spread libel about my next-door neighbor.

Chew on that a bit while I walk down the street to get lunch.
Last edited by jean_genie at Dec 27, 2009,
#38
Quote by divinecrossfire
Oh, in that case its the difference between people.

In EVERY culture you will find someone who doesn't like killing, and you will find someone who does. in EVERY culture you will find someone who steals, and someone who doesn't.


I think you'll find that in most cultures, there are more people who are against killing than people who are for it...
#39
Quote by thedefrockednun
It was said previously that universal applies to "everywhere" and not "everyone".


Everywhere in the universe as the word suggests?

If so wouldn't that mean there would be an infinite set of values in an infinite amount of combinations?

(I have no knowledge of physics, so this should probably just be ignored)
#40
Quote by thedefrockednun
It was said previously that universal applies to "everywhere" and not "everyone".

Yes but his post was using that most people believe in certain values to mean they are universal.
Quote by thedefrockednun
I think you'll find that in most cultures, there are more people who are against killing than people who are for it...

But does being the most widely held set of values make them the universally true set of values?
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