#1
I've been getting more interested in jazz lately and I've been looking at a few jazz chord charts.

Some of these charts don't have the piece written out in a key (eg. with chord like Am, E7), instead they have chords written down in roman numerals (eg. ii V7). I'm fine with this as I know about intervals so I can work out the chord pretty quickly for any key but I came across a few chords like this:

V7/II
ivm7/bvii
im6/biii

I understand the first half of all these chords but what is the slash indicating? At first I thought the first one was second inversion but that doesn't work for the others as they have flat signs and you can't have a sixth inversion.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give.
#2
Doesnt it indicate the bass note still? So like im6/biii would be the minor sixth of the 1st note in the key, but with the flattened 3rd of that key as the bass note?

So like, im6/biii in the key of C major would be Cm6/Eb or something.

If not, then I'd like to know this aswell
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Last edited by pigeonmafia at Dec 27, 2009,
#3
Hazarding a guess here, but I think they might be inversions with the numeral after the slash indicating the interval of the scale

like :

V7/II - 2nd inversion
im6/biii - 1st inversion
Last edited by CaptainFlux at Dec 27, 2009,
#4
pigeonmafia, I was thinking about that but that doesn't explain why some notes are written in uppercase and some in lower case, though. Like the II after the V7 is upper case but the bvii after the ivm7 is lower case.

Captain flux, as I said I was thinking inversions but I'm not sure how a bvii would make it first inversion?
#5
Maybe the upper case is inversion, and lower case is a regular slash chord?
ProTone Pedals: Attack Overdrive
Fractal Audio: AxeFX 2
Engl: Fireball 60
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Carvin: DC700
Carvin: Vader 7
Schecter: KM-7 MKii
Schecter: Banshee 8 Passive
Jackson: DK2M
#6
Quote by 12345abcd3
V7/II
ivm7/bvii
im6/biii

In C, these would be:

G7/D (D G B D F)
Fm7/Bb (Bb F Ab C Eb)
Cm6/Eb (Eb C Eb G A)
#7
Quote by 12345abcd3
pigeonmafia, I was thinking about that but that doesn't explain why some notes are written in uppercase and some in lower case, though. Like the II after the V7 is upper case but the bvii after the ivm7 is lower case.

Captain flux, as I said I was thinking inversions but I'm not sure how a bvii would make it first inversion?


V7/II
ivm7/bvii
im6/biii

My mistake I read it as bvi. Regardless, they are just slash chords, so the note after the slash is to be played in the bass
#8
upper case is major and dominate chords ... lower case is minor...and yes the slash is for the base note in the chord

play well

wolf
#9
They could be polychords, complex jazz chords are sometimes notated as such. Eg. C7#9#11 could be written as B/C (a B major triad and a C major triad).

Edit: didn't see blue_strat's post
Last edited by MapOfYourHead at Dec 27, 2009,
#10
It's hard to tell without seeing it. Another guess is that it is suggesting chord substitutions - the ii for the V7, etc.
#11
Another possibility is to be secondary chords. V7/II would just mean the dominant chord a fifth above the II, so a VI7. ivm7/♭vii would be a minor seventh chord a fourth above ♭vii, so a ♭iiim7. All of these chords would be used when the second chord is tonicized, so that the other chords are heard relative to it, but the tonicization doesn't last long enough to actually write out a modulation.
#12
Quote by 12345abcd3
I've been getting more interested in jazz lately and I've been looking at a few jazz chord charts.

Some of these charts don't have the piece written out in a key (eg. with chord like Am, E7), instead they have chords written down in roman numerals (eg. ii V7). I'm fine with this as I know about intervals so I can work out the chord pretty quickly for any key but I came across a few chords like this:

V7/II
ivm7/bvii
im6/biii


The V7/II is V7 of ii, so if you were in C maj V7/ii would be A7. You take the dominant of whatever is under the slash. G7 would be V7/I, it's just easier to put V7.
For example-
V7/V in C is D7
V7/IV would be C7 and so on.

The iv-7/bviii look like polychords. I was always taught that if you wanted to change what note is in the bass you would put the arabic number of the chord tone you want in the bass, not the roman numeral. Don't quote me on it though, i'm sure people have been taught different things.
#13
Quote by hollow1928years
The V7/II is V7 of ii, so if you were in C maj V7/ii would be A7. You take the dominant of whatever is under the slash. G7 would be V7/I, it's just easier to put V7.
For example-
V7/V in C is D7
V7/IV would be C7 and so on.

The iv-7/bviii look like polychords. I was always taught that if you wanted to change what note is in the bass you would put the arabic number of the chord tone you want in the bass, not the roman numeral. Don't quote me on it though, i'm sure people have been taught different things.


I always learned to use arabic numerals, but no slash. For sevenths, root position would be V7, First inversion V6/5, Second inversion V4/3, Third inversion V4/2. It shouldn't be a slash, it should be a superscripted 6 or 4 over a small 5 3 or 2, where they occupy the same horizontal space, but different vertical space. I'm not sure what to do when it was just a random note as the bass note, which wouldn't normally be in the chord.
#14
Quote by isaac_bandits
I always learned to use arabic numerals, but no slash. For sevenths, root position would be V7, First inversion V6/5, Second inversion V4/3, Third inversion V4/2. It shouldn't be a slash, it should be a superscripted 6 or 4 over a small 5 3 or 2, where they occupy the same horizontal space, but different vertical space. I'm not sure what to do when it was just a random note as the bass note, which wouldn't normally be in the chord.


For inversions you are correct. What I meant in my post is what you are not sure about.
#15
Thanks for all the replies.

From playing the progression I don't think that the V7/II is a secondary dominant (that's if I've worked it out right, that chord would be F#7 in Am, right?) because it doesn't sound right.

Just playing a V7 seems to work fine which leads me to suspect the number after the slash must be indicating a bass note. Similarly the im6/biii can be substituted for a im6 with no real difference in sound.

As far as I can tell the numerals after the slash are just scale degrees (so V7/II would in Am be E7/B). The upercase/lowercase confused me for a while but I noticed that for minor chords an "m" is used but the number is also written in lowercase (usually only one of these two options is used), so a similar thing must be happening for these slash chords - the minor intervals are notated using flat signs and lower case letters.

Again, thanks for all the help and if anyone can confirm/dispute my interpretation please post.
#16
Quote by 12345abcd3
Thanks for all the replies.

From playing the progression I don't think that the V7/II is a secondary dominant (that's if I've worked it out right, that chord would be F#7 in Am, right?) because it doesn't sound right.

Just playing a V7 seems to work fine which leads me to suspect the number after the slash must be indicating a bass note. Similarly the im6/biii can be substituted for a im6 with no real difference in sound.


What is the progression with the V7/ii?

I was taught that V7/x is a secondary dominant, period.

If it was an inversion (like i-6/biii) [which is technically an incorrect spelling of an inversion at my school] it would have to be i-6/b3

Like I said, don't take what I say word for word because some people have been taught different things.
#17
I always hated that upper case lower case thing. Just give me upper case with or without the "M". Confusion solved.

I would always consider the thing after that slash as an "in the bass" note. If it wasn't right my ears would tell me and I'd figure out what was right by ear and then try and put their chart in perspective.

You're ALWAYS at the mercy of the transcriber, ALWAYS.
#18
hollow1928years, I learnt that V7/x just meant the dominant chord of whatever chord x was too, but in this case I believe the transcriber was using it (albeit technically incorrectly) to describe the bass note.
#19
Quote by 12345abcd3
hollow1928years, I learnt that V7/x just meant the dominant chord of whatever chord x was too, but in this case I believe the transcriber was using it (albeit technically incorrectly) to describe the bass note.


Probably.

What is the progression anyway? How you analyze something depends on where it goes (most of the time), not what it is.
#20
Quote by hollow1928years
Probably.

What is the progression anyway? How you analyze something depends on where it goes (most of the time), not what it is.

There were lots of different examples but one well known one is the song Summertime (here's the link , but you have to register to see it). The progression starts:

im6 V7/II im6/bii V7/II

If you play this progression (it's in Am) and listen to the song the E7/B sounds right whereas the F#7 sounds totally wrong.
#21
Quote by MikeDodge
I always hated that upper case lower case thing. Just give me upper case with or without the "M". Confusion solved.


Why? There was never any confusion to me. Upper means major, lower means minor. Seems pretty simple. Easier than M means major, m means minor, which just adds an extra character

Quote by hollow1928years
What is the progression with the V7/ii?

I was taught that V7/x is a secondary dominant, period.

If it was an inversion (like i-6/biii) [which is technically an incorrect spelling of an inversion at my school] it would have to be i-6/b3

Like I said, don't take what I say word for word because some people have been taught different things.


I would've called it viø4/3. I've never understood the point in calling m7 chords 6, with the third as the root, and ø7 chords m6 with the third as the root. All of the sixth chords sound like the sixth is the root.
#22
Quote by isaac_bandits
Why? There was never any confusion to me. Upper means major, lower means minor. Seems pretty simple. Easier than M means major, m means minor, which just adds an extra character


I would've called it viø4/3. I've never understood the point in calling m7 chords 6, with the third as the root, and ø7 chords m6 with the third as the root. All of the sixth chords sound like the sixth is the root.


I was told you would use 4/3 in a classical context while in a jazz context you would use the Roman/Arabic. Gotta love different schools of theory, haha.