#1
I've been all over the net for a week reading things about both amps so far. These Vypyr reliability issues really have me bummed. I've been playing through a solid state spider for a long time and am ready for an upgrade. This is not to say that I'll be gigging or anything because I won't. I play for myself and I just want better sound and modeling options. I got a POD X3 and wanted to get a Vypyr Tube but now I'm thinking of saving the extra money for the Spider Valve MKII. There seems to be no real problems with them unlike the Vypyr. If anyone owns a Vypyr Tube and can chime in then please do. There is a $300 price difference here so if you could ease my mind about getting it then pleae do. I know the spider valve has a specific input for the pod or you can use it as an effects loop and the MKII has got a lot better reviews then the first spider valves. I would go play both but that is about a 4 trip one way. Does theh Vypyr Tube sound a lot better than the solid state version? That's another thing that is bugging me and I don't think the net videos are doing it justice. It sucks to live in a really rural place. Oh and also if the Blackstar HT-5 combo would just be better over both in conjunction with my POD then maybe that's the way to go but I don't know. Thanks in advance for anyones input!
Last edited by Supermansdead81 at Dec 28, 2009,
#2
Woah dude, you still need to learn to paragraph.

Anyways, if you already have an X3... why don't you get the first Spider Valve and plug the X3 into the Power Amp Return input?

It'll be a Vetta Valve!

I have developed a dislike for my Spider Valve's digital modelling software, and unless they overhauled the firmware since the first SV, the X3 would be better.

From what I understand the power section of the Mk2 is no different from the first SV, and I don't think they made any major changes to the SV Mk2 firmware.
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#3
I feel the Vypyr 60 is better than its solid state brothers. I've played the Spider Valve. I'd rather have a Vypyr 60. Not as shrill and the effects sound better imo than SS brothers. You can turn off the effects but you can't turn off the amp modeling and it has a headphone out. We don't like Vs threads either unless you are truly down to those two amps. That's my two cents. Vypyr 120 head might be cool too. Not sure how your POD will sound through a Vypyr. What kind of music do you play.
#4
Sorry about the large paragraph to start. Yeah I'm pretty much down to these two amps unless it would make more sense to pair my POD, since I have that for modeling also, with something like a Blackstar. Obviously money isn't the issue here but I would like to save some if possible. Given that I said money isn't the issue, modeling is a plus for me but remembering that I'm playing in my home is always on my mind. I know that a headphone jack is a plus but I also remember that my POD has that covered. Like I said the thing that scares me about the Vypyr Tube is the reliability issues spread everywhere. I've yet to come across press releases of fixes and was hoping that people here had this amp to chime in. I have read that the MKII is a technology upgrade over the original valve model spider but it is probably just spider 3 to 4 upgrades and Bogner valve design is the same. I don't know how true that is though.
#5
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
I feel the Vypyr 60 is better than its solid state brothers. I've played the Spider Valve. I'd rather have a Vypyr 60. Not as shrill and the effects sound better imo than SS brothers. You can turn off the effects but you can't turn off the amp modeling and it has a headphone out. We don't like Vs threads either unless you are truly down to those two amps. That's my two cents. Vypyr 120 head might be cool too. Not sure how your POD will sound through a Vypyr. What kind of music do you play.


Oh sorry man. I play hard rock type music to metal. I'm talking like Smashing Pumkins Siamese Dream era grunge and STP to bands like Slipknot and Killswitch Engage. My personal favorite kind of music and band to cover is Alice in Chains. I even love their new album but miss Layne Staley's voice being there. It still sounds good and Jerry Cantrel made it work.
#6
Quote by Supermansdead81
Sorry about the large paragraph to start. Yeah I'm pretty much down to these two amps unless it would make more sense to pair my POD, since I have that for modeling also, with something like a Blackstar. Obviously money isn't the issue here but I would like to save some if possible. Given that I said money isn't the issue, modeling is a plus for me but remembering that I'm playing in my home is always on my mind. I know that a headphone jack is a plus but I also remember that my POD has that covered. Like I said the thing that scares me about the Vypyr Tube is the reliability issues spread everywhere. I've yet to come across press releases of fixes and was hoping that people here had this amp to chime in. I have read that the MKII is a technology upgrade over the original valve model spider but it is probably just spider 3 to 4 upgrades and Bogner valve design is the same. I don't know how true that is though.


I've only tested the Vypyr Tubes... so I have no "long term" experience with it.

However, if its the Spider Valve you're thinking of, I'm fairly confident its more or less just a firmware or model update. The power section is, in all likelihood, still unchanged. If I were you, I'd get the original Spider Valve and then use the POD as the preamp, you'd get much better models.

Like 311 has highlighted, what music do you play?
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#7
Quote by ragingkitty
I've only tested the Vypyr Tubes... so I have no "long term" experience with it.

However, if its the Spider Valve you're thinking of, I'm fairly confident its more or less just a firmware or model update. The power section is, in all likelihood, still unchanged. If I were you, I'd get the original Spider Valve and then use the POD as the preamp, you'd get much better models.

Like 311 has highlighted, what music do you play?


I like your idea and the logic behind it but with that said if I'm just using the POD as the modeling preamp solely then maybe I can save even more money. I obviously want tubes incorporated in this sound or I wouldn't have asked about the amps I did. So let's say I take your advice but just use the POD with something cheaper like the Blackstar to eliminate the Spider Valve's cost. Maybe the POD would play well with the cheaper Blackstar.

I'm just wanting a reliable modeling amp combo here with tubes and really love your theory that my X3 and this Spider Valve creates a modeling super combo. This makes perfect sense and does kind of equal a Vetta Valve like you said in a earlier post.
#8
Oh yeah, thanks to anyone that looks at this thread and were one of the people that recommended that I get the POD X3 over the XT. I would've missed the extra amp models and the X3 actually did sound better when I went to Guitar Center to test them out finally.
#9
Quote by Supermansdead81
I like your idea and the logic behind it but with that said if I'm just using the POD as the modeling preamp solely then maybe I can save even more money. I obviously want tubes incorporated in this sound or I wouldn't have asked about the amps I did. So let's say I take your advice but just use the POD with something cheaper like the Blackstar to eliminate the Spider Valve's cost. Maybe the POD would play well with the cheaper Blackstar.

I'm just wanting a reliable modeling amp combo here with tubes and really love your theory that my X3 and this Spider Valve creates a modeling super combo. This makes perfect sense and does kind of equal a Vetta Valve like you said in a earlier post.


Blackstar... poweramp?

Unless its a power amp, running your POD into the input of the Blackstar will make the tone sound pooh. modeling preamp into the input of a guitar amp = not so good tones.
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#10
If you're wanting to use the Spider Valve as a power amp, you could probably get a better power amp for much cheaper.
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#11
Quote by Raijouta
If you're wanting to use the Spider Valve as a power amp, you could probably get a better power amp for much cheaper.


Like?
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#12
Quote by ragingkitty
Blackstar... poweramp?

Unless its a power amp, running your POD into the input of the Blackstar will make the tone sound pooh. modeling preamp into the input of a guitar amp = not so good tones.


Yeah like using the Blackstar HT-5 combo with my POD instead of buying a Spider Valve which I would run the POD with. So I would be doing the same thing but just with the Blackstar amp instead of the Spider to save money since I'll be using the POD X3 as the modeling options anyways. I wasn't talking about a Blackstar pedal if that's what you thought. If you are just saying the POD has to be in the effects return then yeah the Blackstar amp has that to. I'm thinking one of us got confused here somewhere and I apologize.
#13
I thought the whole idea of a POD was to record or as modeling effects for going into an amplifier or in an effects loop. What would be the difference of running it with the Spider Valve creating a theoretic Vetta Valve like you said versus running it into or with another amp? You really lost me with the RagingKitty!
#14
Get an Atomic Reactor if you already have an X3, no sense in wasting money on something you're not really going to use Either that or buy a used Mesa power amp (20:20 or 50/50), they can be found usually in the <$500 range and will sound better than running your X3 through another amp's power amp.

Either that or sell the X3 and buy a Vetta.
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#15
Quote by MatrixClaw
Get an Atomic Reactor if you already have an X3, no sense in wasting money on something you're not really going to use Either that or buy a used Mesa power amp (20:20 or 50/50), they can be found usually in the <$500 range and will sound better than running your X3 through another amp's power amp.

Either that or sell the X3 and buy a Vetta.


O yeah, forgot about the Atomic Reactor amps. Those are designed to be as transparent as possible so to allow the modeling powers of the POD to shine.

I've been having a obsession with trying to find a use for my Spider Valve that I didn't think about the Atomic Reactor.

Quote by Supermansdead81
I thought the whole idea of a POD was to record or as modeling effects for going into an amplifier or in an effects loop. What would be the difference of running it with the Spider Valve creating a theoretic Vetta Valve like you said versus running it into or with another amp? You really lost me with the RagingKitty!


The best way to run the POD would be directly into the power amp. What I was suggesting was to run the POD as the guitar preamp, and use the Bogner power section.

Similarly, the Atomic Reactor or the Mesa Power Amps as suggested above, would serve as the power amp. Some people run the POD into the input of an amp, thereby running it into the preamp section of the amp, which then adds its own voicing on top of the voicing of the POD, turning the tone absolutely crap. I was trying to make sure you didn't do that.
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#16
Quote by MatrixClaw
Get an Atomic Reactor if you already have an X3, no sense in wasting money on something you're not really going to use Either that or buy a used Mesa power amp (20:20 or 50/50), they can be found usually in the <$500 range and will sound better than running your X3 through another amp's power amp.

Either that or sell the X3 and buy a Vetta.


I like your ideas here but I've never heard of an Atomic Reactor. Maybe you can enlighten me on that one or point me towards some info on it. The whole reason I didn't buy a Vetta is lack of funds for something like that and that is way too much power. I guess that's why we were talking about running the POD with the Spider Valve to make it Vetta like. The point was that this is a hobbyist set-up with many modeling options and not for playing on stage. Ok than this also bring me to the question of what do people who actually own PODs use them for other than recording? Do they run them into amps at all anymore?
#17
Quote by Supermansdead81
Yeah like using the Blackstar HT-5 combo with my POD instead of buying a Spider Valve which I would run the POD with.


Not a bad idea. That way you have a no-bullshit tube amp for the basics and you can stick the POD in the effects loop with no modeling when you need effects.
#18
Quote by Supermansdead81
The whole reason I didn't buy a Vetta is lack of funds for something like that and that is way too much power.

You can buy a Vetta used for less than a brand new Spider Valve MKII. They sound great at low volumes and have a headphone jack.
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#19
Similarly, the Atomic Reactor or the Mesa Power Amps as suggested above, would serve as the power amp. Some people run the POD into the input of an amp, thereby running it into the preamp section of the amp, which then adds its own voicing on top of the voicing of the POD, turning the tone absolutely crap. I was trying to make sure you didn't do that.


Oh I appreciate you looking out for sure because I don't want to make a stupid decision here. This is getting real interesting and I am learning. Where can I find one of the atomic reactors online because I didn't see them on Musician's Friend searching through? The whole Blackstar amp deal was just said because it had an effects loop and I figured that's where the POD would go according to the Spider Valve anyways since it's "preamp in" doubles as an effects loop according to their website.
#20
Quote by Supermansdead81
I like your ideas here but I've never heard of an Atomic Reactor. Maybe you can enlighten me on that one or point me towards some info on it. The whole reason I didn't buy a Vetta is lack of funds for something like that and that is way too much power. I guess that's why we were talking about running the POD with the Spider Valve to make it Vetta like. The point was that this is a hobbyist set-up with many modeling options and not for playing on stage. Ok than this also bring me to the question of what do people who actually own PODs use them for other than recording? Do they run them into amps at all anymore?


I think of PODs as something that is generally versatile and to run them into the effects loop for modulation, in front of the amp if you need things like wah or OD (though I generally wouldn't use them for their ODs), or into a transparent poweramp as a guitar preamp (for modelling amps).

Atomic Amps
http://fractalaudio.com/products-at-reactor.html
I think that's the website... its currently down though.

Quote by Supermansdead81
The whole Blackstar amp deal was just said because it had an effects loop and I figured that's where the POD would go according to the Spider Valve anyways since it's "preamp in" doubles as an effects loop according to their website.


Technically yes... that would work.

However, if I recall correctly.. the Spider Valve's Preamp Out and Poweramp In isn't exactly your typical effects loop... for the lack or additional of something after the Poweramp In... though I know of many people who actually have used the Bogner power section after they got tired of the SV's preamp models.
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Last edited by ragingkitty at Dec 29, 2009,
#21
OMG I just found the atomic reactor website and those things look sick with the pod docked on the top. I hope these sound as good as they sound by reading about them. Hopefully this is a Vetta, Spider Valve, and Vypyr Tube like solution with great sound.
#22
Quote by Supermansdead81
OMG I just found the atomic reactor website and those things look sick with the pod docked on the top. I hope these sound as good as they sound by reading about them. Hopefully this is a Vetta, Spider Valve, and Vypyr Tube like solution with great sound.


Yeah they are pretty cool amps.

I have no idea how they are though, don't know of anyone who uses one on UG.
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#23
Quote by jpnyc
Not a bad idea. That way you have a no-bullshit tube amp for the basics and you can stick the POD in the effects loop with no modeling when you need effects.


Yeah and this was the idea and reason that kind of steers me away from wanting to invest $500 in an Atomic Reactor. This shouldn't be as hard of a decision as it has turned out but spending this kind of money is hard. I mean I'll spend it and I'll probably enjoy whatever. I don't want to look back wishing I would've went a different direction but oh well, we all have to make a jump at some point with this kind of expensive hobby. The think with the Atomic Amp is that I can spend a little more and get the Spider Valve brand new and have a stand alone amp if need be also. I wish I could actually play an Atomic to get an idea here but I don't see that happening anywhere around here.
#24
Well really, there'd be only two options for me:

1. Buy an Atomic or another power amp

2. Sell the X3 and buy a used Vetta

If you're buying new, the Spider Valve is a waste of money when you can get the Vetta for the same price used, which will sound 100x better (I've owned 2 ).
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#25
Remember that with the Atomic Reactor is that it is designed to be used with PODs or other modelers which will serve as a guitar preamp. Without a preamp, its essentially useless.

That said, while the Spider Valve is pretty responsive and generally a good amp, its not a great amp, and the firmware really isn't much to shout about. Sure its a pretty good amp, but when you have a better amp, the Spider Valve begins to look like a gimmick.

I have a Spider Valve, and while I don't exactly regret buying the Spider Valve, I don't feel particularly excited about buying it. On the other hand, I feel that I can really go out and shout about my Mesa MkV and my Krank Rev Jr Pro, but I can't say I feel the urge to do that for my Spider Valve.
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#26
Quote by MatrixClaw
Well really, there'd be only two options for me:

1. Buy an Atomic or another power amp

2. Sell the X3 and buy a used Vetta

If you're buying new, the Spider Valve is a waste of money when you can get the Vetta for the same price used, which will sound 100x better (I've owned 2 ).


Well I guess I'll look for a used Vetta. That is total solid state right? Correct me if I'm wrong on that assumption. You said it had a headphone jack? What would be the best place to find a good conditioned used one or is this just another craigslist or ebay search? I ask that because I'm one of those scared people when it comes to buying electronic equipment used especially online. This would be great if I could find a used one at Guitar Center but I seriously doubt it. Any pointers on finding a good one like you may have?

Quote by ragingkitty
Remember that with the Atomic Reactor is that it is designed to be used with PODs or other modelers which will serve as a guitar preamp. Without a preamp, its essentially useless.

That said, while the Spider Valve is pretty responsive and generally a good amp, its not a great amp, and the firmware really isn't much to shout about. Sure its a pretty good amp, but when you have a better amp, the Spider Valve begins to look like a gimmick.

I have a Spider Valve, and while I don't exactly regret buying the Spider Valve, I don't feel particularly excited about buying it. On the other hand, I feel that I can really go out and shout about my Mesa MkV and my Krank Rev Jr Pro, but I can't say I feel the urge to do that for my Spider Valve.


I definately understand what you are saying and I'm wondering if it would just be best overall just to upgrade to a Spider IV 75 watt and get a shortboard to control it and my POD. I mean I would love to have better sound which it would give me, minus tube rich feel and tone, but I am still going to be playing this at home. This crap really sucks because I've been stuck with a solid state for so long and finally got that POD thinking I could just a valve amp later on because that's what people do. Learned my lesson I guess. I should have just added this all up and got a Vetta type amp to start with but I was thinking that I might throw down the guitar.

I've been playing 3 years now and love it. I'm sorry to keep you guys up during this stupid ass drama of mine but seriously what would you recommend I do if you were in this same exact situation playing for yourself at home and wanting to just cover stuff with the occasional song you write to record yourself? This is a no bull question and am now open to all suggestions. If you hate by now then I understand lol.
#27
Quote by Supermansdead81
Well I guess I'll look for a used Vetta. That is total solid state right? Correct me if I'm wrong on that assumption. You said it had a headphone jack? What would be the best place to find a good conditioned used one or is this just another craigslist or ebay search? I ask that because I'm one of those scared people when it comes to buying electronic equipment used especially online. This would be great if I could find a used one at Guitar Center but I seriously doubt it. Any pointers on finding a good one like you may have?

Yes, totally solid state, but much better than the SV still. I don't think my head had a headphone jack, but the combo I had definitely did.

Search "Vetta" on used.guitarcenter.com, there's a TON on there for super cheap. You can contact the store and have them ship it to your local store so you can pick it up
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#28
Quote by MatrixClaw
Yes, totally solid state, but much better than the SV still. I don't think my head had a headphone jack, but the combo I had definitely did.

Search "Vetta" on used.guitarcenter.com, there's a TON on there for super cheap. You can contact the store and have them ship it to your local store so you can pick it up


I'll do that and as long as it's got a headphone jack then I'm sold. Thanks for all the info and help. That goes to everyone on here tonight. Ya'll have a good night and thanks.
#29
Personally, I think you should skip out of modeling amps like the Spider Valve. Sure the Vetta is a great amp the few times I played it, but nothing beats the smell of tubes warming up. Even more so since you've stated that you want to move out of modeling and into tubes.

However, in view of a long term possibility, maybe you can look at the Mesa 50 watt poweramp, even the 20 watt poweramp will be great. When you go into racks, that poweramp will be very useful. Plugging a POD into that Mesa will definitely give you the Vetta software run into t00b power.
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Last edited by ragingkitty at Dec 29, 2009,
#30
Get a power amp. On of they workers at my local music shop is putting an album out, and all of the leads are just a POD through a tube power amp.
#31
The Marshall EL84 20/20 is another power amp worth considering if you don't need the crazy head room of a 100 watt power amp.
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#32
Not to resurrect a dead thread, but having owned a vypyr, and a heavily modded spider valve, the gt-10, the digitech rp1000 and the pod x3 (twice) I've spent the better part of the last 2 years obsessing over modelling tube hybrid mixes.

For me hands down, the best tone I get are with my pod x3 into the power in section of a Hot Rod Deluxe. it has just the right amount of warmth to add to the x3 that makes a stellar live rig.

I really wanted to love my spider valve, I love the idea of the portability and all in one ness of it, but the effects blowed chunks and on my clean and mid gain tones, it just never quite sounded right

The funny part is my first foray into modeling was the pod x3live when it first came out and I was was running it into an old fender hot rod deluxe. I foolishly sold it looking for a better rig, and over the course of the last 2 years and at least 2 grand have come full circle.

I still use my vypyr 30 to practice on, and have been toying with the idea of trying vypyr tube 60, but I think that's just GAS coming on.
#33
Have you plugged your RP1000 into the Vypyr 30? If so, what amp did you set the Vypyr on?

Thanks!