#1
Alright, so my question is, are there like general formulas to figure out when i go inbetween 7th chords and when normal ones for Jazz? cause im really confused when i change from a C chord to a CMaj7 chord, and when that sounds good. I`m also confused about when to use suspended chords, i know that the 7th is dimished, well hafl diminished, but i also heard that full diminished chords are used often, but when?= they aren`t in the normal progression like imaj7 iim7 iiim7 IVmaj7 V7 Vim7 Viio7 , and im kinda one of those people that needs to know how the formula works to break it and follow it, so i`d appreciate it is someone could help me understand this.
#2
http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/ii-v-i-playing-over-the-changes-t19.html

Have at it, that should get you headed in the right direction for your questions and concepts of Jazz. When you get past that let me know and I have 4-5 more lessons to build on it.

The "general formulas" you are looking for are Major and Minor II-V-I's as well as back cycling through the circle of 5th's. This creates tension, resolution, forward motion, and modulation. That tutorial explains it all.
Last edited by MikeDodge at Dec 30, 2009,
#3
wow dude, EPIC, thanks so much. that answered my question SO perfectly!

i read all of it, don`t have my guitar, but is there anything else adding onto all of this, or is this going to be enough for me to mess around with for a few weeks?
#4
That's pretty much where everything starts, from chording, modulation, comp'ing, melody, playing the changes, etc...just that can keep you busy for a long time, I know it does with me

Most other jazz tunes still use that circle of 5th's idea but start further back in it, like instead of a IIm-V-I, you might have a VIm-IIm-V-I, which is just starting back one more notch in the circle of 5ths...like Am-Dm-G7-C.

Or they will even change the chords to dom7 chords to create more tension back to the I chord like, A7-D7-G7-C.

Or you can play them in starting with the I chord like, C-Am-Dm-G7.

I have two tutorials that show you a lot about chords and chord subs when playing these progressions:

Part 1: http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/substitutions-and-the-vim-iim-v-i-progression-part-1-of-2-t3.html

Part 2: http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/substitutions-and-the-vim-iim-v-i-progression-part-2-of-2-t4.html

Another thing you run into is chromatic turnaround/chord sequences, like in Autumn Leave and Bluesette. Here's a tutorial that covers those: http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/bluesette-the-chromatic-turnaround-t16.html

I do have more but those ought to keep you working for a while. It's a lot of info, and it's does take a long time to grasp the concepts and then more to internalize them in you playing. But, read through them a few times and it'll start to sink in.

Also, get yourself a Realbook and start playing a lot of Jazz tunes. That's the #1 way to practice the ideas.
Last edited by MikeDodge at Dec 30, 2009,
#5
so if im aiming more at a ballad style playing, should i stick to the first 3 in part 1? and avoid going further with the changes?

LIke can i use lesson 2 in my ballad style playing? or no? cause i think i understand the 2nd lesson, and i see tthe endless possiblities, but should i not use them constructing my ¨ballad type¨ songs? cause im not looking about going into like jazz band (well not quite yet) so im aiming more at like a ¨Man On The Side http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7EirzYiiIQ ¨ type ballads, (also im new to jazz, so good artists, apart from the few John Mayer unreleased songs i`ve found, to listen to would be appreciated cause thats how i got into it, and i don`t know who else to find like that
Last edited by a0kalittlema0n at Jan 2, 2010,
#6
That's more of a pop ballad than jazz, kind of bluesy but more of a ballad.

My suggestion is to learn what's he's playing and learn other tunes in the style you're interested. While those tutorials definitely come into play, they won't directly show you the kind of things he's playing. They are more geared to teach jazz music directly.

You can learn a bunch of jazz and pop ballads if you want. My suggestion there is to get a Realbook.
#7
Real Book is great, also Theres a few Mel Bay books on Jazz that show some great jazz chords and subs... For the most part I never reccomend MB, but their recent publications are actually in many cases better than most companies, so they are definitely on the rise with progressive and relevant material - Looks like NGW has a challenger.

And John Mayor is brilliant when it comes to making Jazz fit pop and acoustic. Anyone that wants to claim he sucks as a musician (style preferences aside) is flat out ignorant. Take one of his songs and chordally break it down and analyze it - I havent seen anyone that smart in pop without it being obvious since, Prince.
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jan 2, 2010,
#8
Take one of his songs and chordally break it down and analyze it - I havent seen anyone that smart in pop without it being obvious since, Prince.

Ok so thats what i´ve been doing, and i can´t seem to understand how he mixes some jazz/blues type chords in with everything else, although all of this Jazz stuff that was posted is great, i would more like someone tl help me understand chord progressions like some of the blues songs by John Mayer, cause i love his songs that are like that (not a huge fan of his pop stuff) but i just don´t find anyone else like that or in that style to learn from and the songs that he has like that are so limited.