#1
Hey!

I've been playing for 2 Years, and i love it!
But now, i really think i hit the big wall. I dont know how to get further now?

Im pretty good.. OR Average at Hammer-Ons And Pull-Offs.
Im good at Alternate picking
I can do some speed picking, pretty good actually.

Im Very good at Barre Chords, and i know a lot of Open Chords.
Im pretty Average on Bending, and i use slide and vibrato pretty good too.
Of Course i can Palm Mute good too

I know 3 pentatonic scales so far, and i can do them in different position.
I can Improvise a solo, from those scales, i can also move pretty fast inside a scale.

I can do some Harmonics too, but im not good at it.


I think thats it....
Do i need to just Continue mastering the technics? or do i need to learn som theory?
Maybe there is some vital scales i HAVE to learn before moveing on?
Or some Chords i need to know?

I really dont know what to start with and how to improve on the different subjects?

So please Help me!

Kind Regards
Martin!
Last edited by Broch at Jan 1, 2010,
#2
Quote by Broch
Hey!

I've been playing for 2 Years, and i love it!
But now, i really think i hit the big wall. I dont know how to get further now?

Im pretty good.. OR Average at Hammer-Ons And Pull-Offs.
Im good at Alternate picking
I can do some speed picking, pretty good actually.

Im Very good at Barre Chords, and i know a lot of Open Chords.
Im pretty Average on Bending, and i use slide and vibrato pretty good too.
Of Course i can Palm Mute good too

I know 3 pentatonic scales so far, and i can do them in different position.
I can Improvise a solo, from those scales, i can also move pretty fast inside a scale.

I can do some Harmonics too, but im not good at it.


I think thats it....
Do i need to just Continue mastering the technics? or do i need to learn som theory?
Maybe there is some vital scales i HAVE to learn before moveing on?
Or some Chords i need to know?

I really dont know what to start with and how to improve on the different subjects?

So please Help me!

Kind Regards
Martin!



can you play any songs by memory all the way through? (and sound authentic doing it)
shred is gaudy music
#3
Learn the major scale and all the modes of it
Quote by sadSTATUE
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Quote by Unknown_Biskit
Try typing "potatoes" with your dick then submit it.



My cover of Manchester Orchestra's "I Can Feel Your Pain"
http://www.mediafire.com/?jfvt54j4mkiiq99
#4
Try and play some stuff outside of you comfort zone, say if you were a big rock/metal fan try and do some maybe technical stuff like prog metal or something.
#5
You say that you can play inside a scale, but does that include your octaves?

Take any scale that you know and play it through its octaves, as many as you can in all the patterns that you know. This will also help you learn other ways to play a scale. C major would be the easiest to start on, because you only have to find letters from our alphabet...
#6
yeah major scales andd the modes and also learn how to make chords using their formula ex.(major,1-3-5)(minor,1-b3-5) and if you dont already the notes on fret board and the musical alphabet
i almost forgot for technique you could try two handed tapping
Last edited by supersac at Jan 1, 2010,
#7
Practice writing songs. You should always be practicing that. The theory and technique will help you with that, as you will be capable of doing more.
Quote by UtBDan
this man hits the nail on the head.
#8
Quote by Broch
Hey!

I've been playing for 2 Years, and i love it!
But now, i really think i hit the big wall. I dont know how to get further now?

Im pretty good.. OR Average at Hammer-Ons And Pull-Offs.
Im good at Alternate picking
I can do some speed picking, pretty good actually.

Im Very good at Barre Chords, and i know a lot of Open Chords.
Im pretty Average on Bending, and i use slide and vibrato pretty good too.
Of Course i can Palm Mute good too

I know 3 pentatonic scales so far, and i can do them in different position.
I can Improvise a solo, from those scales, i can also move pretty fast inside a scale.

I can do some Harmonics too, but im not good at it.


I think thats it....
Do i need to just Continue mastering the technics? or do i need to learn som theory?
Maybe there is some vital scales i HAVE to learn before moveing on?
Or some Chords i need to know?

I really dont know what to start with and how to improve on the different subjects?

So please Help me!

Kind Regards
Martin!


Hi Martin,

It sounds like youve achieved quite a lot in the few years on your own, and I want to congratulate you. Obviously you are passionate about the guitar and that's a good thing. What is missing in your question, is you have not said a clear cut goal as to what you want. There are lots of reasons people play the guitar and each has a goal, some are technical, some are relational - I wanna be in a band, some are personal.

Before telling you what you should do, it helps to know where you want to go.

If you want to learn more towards becoming a well rounded musician, Id say learn to play and say, and sight and play all the notes on the neck of the guitar. If you cannot do that, then the neck of the guitar is going to remain one big mystery to you.

If I can help answer any questions, drop me a line. Congratulations on your progress to this point.

Sean
#9
Quote by Sean0913
If you want to learn more towards becoming a well rounded musician, Id say learn to play and say, and sight and play all the notes on the neck of the guitar. If you cannot do that, then the neck of the guitar is going to remain one big mystery to you.


Really, memorizing the notes of the fretboard is a big waste of time for most people. When you know intervals, and all of their shapes, its pretty easy to get around the fretboard, and eventually you'll learn the note names, but it's not as if you can't get anywhere not knowing all the notes.
#10
Quote by GuitarMunky
can you play any songs by memory all the way through? (and sound authentic doing it)


Yes i can do that (:
#11
Quote by Sean0913
Hi Martin,

It sounds like youve achieved quite a lot in the few years on your own, and I want to congratulate you. Obviously you are passionate about the guitar and that's a good thing. What is missing in your question, is you have not said a clear cut goal as to what you want. There are lots of reasons people play the guitar and each has a goal, some are technical, some are relational - I wanna be in a band, some are personal.

Before telling you what you should do, it helps to know where you want to go.

If you want to learn more towards becoming a well rounded musician, Id say learn to play and say, and sight and play all the notes on the neck of the guitar. If you cannot do that, then the neck of the guitar is going to remain one big mystery to you.

If I can help answer any questions, drop me a line. Congratulations on your progress to this point.

Sean


Well i pretty much just wanna be a good all around guitarist/Musician.
And i would really love to play in a band or Orchestra, and be able to write my own songs, and actually understand what im doing.

I think i really need to learn some basic knowledge on how music is made.
Like if im in a band, and we need too write a song, and the other guitarist say, lets make a song in the key of A or whatever, and then he starts to play something.
But there i would be lost... where the hell should i play, what scale fit?
What CHord Progressions, when and why should i use Capo.

Martin (:
#12
Quote by isaac_bandits
Really, memorizing the notes of the fretboard is a big waste of time for most people. When you know intervals, and all of their shapes, its pretty easy to get around the fretboard, and eventually you'll learn the note names, but it's not as if you can't get anywhere not knowing all the notes.
You reckon? I'd say the notes of the neck are one of the most important things to know. I rely on intervals a lot too, but knowing where the notes are on the neck can make life a whole lot easier imho.

If you want to understand music, I'd learn the major scale - so you understand how its constructed. Don't worry about modes yet though. They'll just confuse matters. You can get to them later.

And play a bunch of songs that use the techniques you know now
#13
Quote by isaac_bandits
Really, memorizing the notes of the fretboard is a big waste of time for most people. When you know intervals, and all of their shapes, its pretty easy to get around the fretboard, and eventually you'll learn the note names, but it's not as if you can't get anywhere not knowing all the notes.


Could you post a video of you demonstrating this? While it's your opinion, you and I know that you aren't the average guy when it comes to understanding or how quickly theory - I think you've got far more abstract and... theory than you have practical knowledge. I also think you are entirely unable to relate to anyone lower than you on any meaningful level because your answers frequently are aimed far above the heads of the person asking for it.

Frankly I think this comment about not needing the notes, was a most ignorant statement on your part because it sounds like advice, and not just your opinion.

Intervals and shapes have their value as well, but to say notes on the neck is a waste of time, is a pretty bold statement.

@ broch -

Music Theory for you is definitely the way to go. For sight reading I reccommend only one Book - Music Reading for Guitar by David Oakes - off MI Press.

Im very familiar with Berklees Modern Method for Guitar and many swear by it, Ill just say that it's an explain once, briefly and you have to run to keep up with it, type of book. Its thorough, but its got a steep learning curve and moves at a crawl, because of the sheer alone time it will take to understand it. You have to pretty much understand whatever is taught right off the bat, or else you're sunk. That is unless you are going through it with a teacher.
#14
Quote by Sean0913
Could you post a video of you demonstrating this? While it's your opinion, you and I know that you aren't the average guy when it comes to understanding or how quickly theory - I think you've got far more abstract and... theory than you have practical knowledge. I also think you are entirely unable to relate to anyone lower than you on any meaningful level because your answers frequently are aimed far above the heads of the person asking for it.

Frankly I think this comment about not needing the notes, was a most ignorant statement on your part because it sounds like advice, and not just your opinion.

Intervals and shapes have their value as well, but to say notes on the neck is a waste of time, is a pretty bold statement.

@ broch -

Music Theory for you is definitely the way to go. For sight reading I reccommend only one Book - Music Reading for Guitar by David Oakes - off MI Press.

Im very familiar with Berklees Modern Method for Guitar and many swear by it, Ill just say that it's an explain once, briefly and you have to run to keep up with it, type of book. Its thorough, but its got a steep learning curve and moves at a crawl, because of the sheer alone time it will take to understand it. You have to pretty much understand whatever is taught right off the bat, or else you're sunk. That is unless you are going through it with a teacher.


Just to be sure, is this the one your talking about?
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Reading-Guitar-Complete-Method/dp/0793581885
#15
Quote by Sean0913
Could you post a video of you demonstrating this? While it's your opinion, you and I know that you aren't the average guy when it comes to understanding or how quickly theory - I think you've got far more abstract and... theory than you have practical knowledge. I also think you are entirely unable to relate to anyone lower than you on any meaningful level because your answers frequently are aimed far above the heads of the person asking for it.

Frankly I think this comment about not needing the notes, was a most ignorant statement on your part because it sounds like advice, and not just your opinion.

Intervals and shapes have their value as well, but to say notes on the neck is a waste of time, is a pretty bold statement.



I think you're unable to relate to anyone who's opinion is different from yours. I outline my opinion, you seem to misunderstand it, and off you go insulting me. Really, you have shown any reason that knowing the notes will help you. If you don't know what to do with those notes, it doesn't help. Its far more helpful to learn how the major scale is constructed, and just use that intervallic pattern than learning all the notes on the fretboard, and then thinking about which notes are sharp/flat in the key that your in, and having to try to find all the right notes.

A video of me demonstrating that sitting down and trying to memorize what note is at every fret of every string? How would I do that?

I'm not saying that knowing the notes isn't important, but that people here seem to put way too much emphasis on it. Its a huge task for a beginner to try and memorize them, and it will just discourage them from wanting to learn theory. Its good to understand how to figure out what the note is, and when you do that it only takes a few seconds to work it. They should focus on actually using the notes, even if they can't instantly recall the note. Eventually, you'll get more used to learning them, but I don't think its a good idea to discourage people who don't know the notes by saying that the neck will be one huge mystery until they know all the notes. You'll know the notes if you use them enough, and you'll be able to do something when you know intervals and stuff rather than just the notes.

Quote by zhilla
You reckon? I'd say the notes of the neck are one of the most important things to know. I rely on intervals a lot too, but knowing where the notes are on the neck can make life a whole lot easier imho.


It is important to be able to figure out where any note is. However, it is very difficult for most people to sit down and memorize 144 different string and fret combinations. Its alot better if they start with learning the major scale, and the interval pattern of it, so that they can actually start to play in keys, and see how transposition does not affect intervals, even though it affects notes. Eventually, through playing, you have to think about what note your playing, and you'll soon enough know them just by playing them. That way you don't have to waste your time trying to just memorize the intervals.
#16
Quote by Sean0913
If you want to learn more towards becoming a well rounded musician, Id say learn to play and say, and sight and play all the notes on the neck of the guitar. If you cannot do that, then the neck of the guitar is going to remain one big mystery to you.

I don' think that anyone should have to learn the notes on the fretboard by sitting down and just trying to memorise them.

Everything you learn in music - theory, sight reading, impovising, writing, playing, technique - is connected. IMO, none of it should be disconected when learning it.

Why do people complain about theory being boring and not relevant? Because someone has disconected it from all practical applications and forced them to learn it without connecting it. Once people see the connection to songwriting they often become a lot more enthusiastic about it because they see how they can use it.

Similarly, learning the notes of the fretboard shouldn't be a chore, totally disconected from music. You shouldn't sit someone down and say "Memorise all the notes, then we can start playing". When you combine learning the notes on the fretboard with learning to read music and playing music, the task suddenly becomes easy. Learning the notes and learning to read music both become incedental effects of sight reading so much music.

I'm not saying that there are no aspects of music that you won't have to memorise but by making sure that everything you're doing it connected you can ensure that you student (or you) will not become bored by something because they can't see any application for it.
#17
Quote by 12345abcd3
I don' think that anyone should have to learn the notes on the fretboard by sitting down and just trying to memorise them.

Everything you learn in music - theory, sight reading, impovising, writing, playing, technique - is connected. IMO, none of it should be disconected when learning it.

Why do people complain about theory being boring and not relevant? Because someone has disconected it from all practical applications and forced them to learn it without connecting it. Once people see the connection to songwriting they often become a lot more enthusiastic about it because they see how they can use it.

Similarly, learning the notes of the fretboard shouldn't be a chore, totally disconected from music. You shouldn't sit someone down and say "Memorise all the notes, then we can start playing". When you combine learning the notes on the fretboard with learning to read music and playing music, the task suddenly becomes easy. Learning the notes and learning to read music both become incedental effects of sight reading so much music.

I'm not saying that there are no aspects of music that you won't have to memorise but by making sure that everything you're doing it connected you can ensure that you student (or you) will not become bored by something because they can't see any application for it.


This is exactly what I was saying.
#18
when i was at your stage it helped when i learned other peoples guitar solos from all styles
blues metal virtuoso etc

itll help your playing both with learning new songs and your improv and also memorizing the fret board.

for certain musicians i did a lot of hendrix, vai, clapton, and page, but really its whoever you wanna do

good luck mate

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#19
Quote by isaac_bandits
I think you're unable to relate to anyone who's opinion is different from yours. I outline my opinion, you seem to misunderstand it, and off you go insulting me. Really, you have shown any reason that knowing the notes will help you. If you don't know what to do with those notes, it doesn't help. Its far more helpful to learn how the major scale is constructed, and just use that intervallic pattern than learning all the notes on the fretboard, and then thinking about which notes are sharp/flat in the key that your in, and having to try to find all the right notes.


First of all I apologize for insulting you, but I was taken aback, because my perspective is, you seem to have it all up "here". If you play guitar as a primary instrument, I'd be surprised, since a lot of what you say seems to be devoid of what it is to be a guitar player on the forum. You seem more to be a theory guru, and that's fine, I respect your classical more technical side of theory knowledge. But aside from having a love affair with every part of every nth degree of it, I use it as a tool for understanding. Your tagline suggests an affinity for math - Makes sense, music is math. I am proficient in it, but I hate it. Always have. But your answers reside in the theoretical. When I look at someone that needs help, its a lot less esoteric, it's not the time to wax philosophical, it's "what will help this guy today". Want him to proceed, not just with theory, but with guitar. As a guitar player, there is no separating theory from the guitar. I can apply musical concepts from the guitar elsewhere, but I want theory relevant today. And, if it's not, then how can we make it so?

With theory you seem to relish it, and that's cool, more power to you, but frequently you make comments that have me shaking my head since its philosophical, and well above the head of someone that is asking the question. It seems focused more on technical correctness than it is in providing tangible useful information at the users' level.

So when you made that comment - keep in mind Ive taught hundreds - upwards of 500 students I can claim, and knowing what I have taught and what these guys can do, then okay, say what you will...but I wanna see you play it on guitar. Demonstrate total autonomy on the fretboard fluidly using nothing but your stacked thirds, and then Ill do the same showing notes on the neck and my scale approach.

By the way Freepower contacted a former student and Academy Graduate of mine to vouch for who I am and what I do, and whether or not its unique and progressive and if its one of a kind and works, so if there's any questions, check out an example...Phrygian_12, on here, and let the work speak for itself. Write him and ask anything you like. I didn't use anyone's name when I got here, but since Phrygian has given his consent, now I can break my silence. Notice what the sum total of my theory inspired him to do - He's out learning piano pieces and counterpoint - that's the point when you have applied theory to the guitar. Because Ive taught hundreds, you can bet your bottom dollar Im going to speak up when someone suggests that theory should be learned without the guitar.

Quote by isaac_bandits


A video of me demonstrating that sitting down and trying to memorize what note is at every fret of every string? How would I do that?



A video of you demonstrating your prowess on the neck up and down in any key - back, forward, top to bottom in random directions without hesitation.

Quote by isaac_bandits


I'm not saying that knowing the notes isn't important, but that people here seem to put way too much emphasis on it. Its a huge task for a beginner to try and memorize them, and it will just discourage them from wanting to learn theory.



Whether you believe this or not, I agree with you - its a huge task for a beginner. But, I do it every single day...so what's wrong with this picture? The answer is, it's (theory) has long been made complicated and abstract, and you better well sure think that when someone wants to know theory, as a guitar player, they want to be able to play it - so when you learn that a C# is the third of A major, you should want to know the notes on the neck to play it everywhere. You've seen my videos demonstrating triads and chords and notes. How did I get there, if I didn't use traditional means of learning theory?

Quote by isaac_bandits


It is important to be able to figure out where any note is. However, it is very difficult for most people to sit down and memorize 144 different string and fret combinations. Its alot better if they start with learning the major scale, and the interval pattern of it, so that they can actually start to play in keys, and see how transposition does not affect intervals, even though it affects notes. Eventually, through playing, you have to think about what note your playing, and you'll soon enough know them just by playing them. That way you don't have to waste your time trying to just memorize the intervals.


This was put out as honest as it can be - 144 different string and fret combinations ... very difficult. Is it any wonder so few know their notes on the neck? This is why I've made it my life's passion to help others mate.

Again, I know we come from different directions, but I respect your knowledge, however, your advice based upon it, I wonder about sometimes...
#20
Quote by Sean0913
First of all I apologize for insulting you, but I was taken aback, because my perspective is, you seem to have it all up "here". If you play guitar as a primary instrument, I'd be surprised, since a lot of what you say seems to be devoid of what it is to be a guitar player on the forum. You seem more to be a theory guru, and that's fine, I respect your classical more technical side of theory knowledge. But aside from having a love affair with every part of every nth degree of it, I use it as a tool for understanding. Your tagline suggests an affinity for math - Makes sense, music is math. I am proficient in it, but I hate it. Always have. But your answers reside in the theoretical. When I look at someone that needs help, its a lot less esoteric, it's not the time to wax philosophical, it's "what will help this guy today". Want him to proceed, not just with theory, but with guitar. As a guitar player, there is no separating theory from the guitar. I can apply musical concepts from the guitar elsewhere, but I want theory relevant today. And, if it's not, then how can we make it so?


No worries man, my post was quite brief, and didn't properly explain what I was trying to say. Just so you know, double bass is my primary instrument, but I play guitar about as much (I just take bass lessons and not guitar lessons). The theory on the two instruments is remarkably similar. The bass is tuned, like a guitar, in fourths, and all the notes happen to fall in the same spots. It only has four strings, which simplifies things, and that annoying major third between the g and b strings is gone. It also doesn't have frets, which is probably responsible for my "sitting down and learning the notes is a waste of time". I have to be able to get to any note from wherever I am, but I can't just say "ohh, I'll go up to the ninth fret", because there isn't a ninth fret. I just think, "ohh, I'll go up a fifth", and since there are only two common ways of playing a fifth (up a string and up two positions or up two strings and back three positions), I use one of those.

In this thread, my response was to help this guy today. Most people, if they sit down and try to learn all the notes of the fretboard, will get frustrated. It's hard to do without the context of using it.

Quote by Sean0913
With theory you seem to relish it, and that's cool, more power to you, but frequently you make comments that have me shaking my head since its philosophical, and well above the head of someone that is asking the question. It seems focused more on technical correctness than it is in providing tangible useful information at the users' level.


My response on this thread was not philosophical. Your comment said that the neck will be one big mystery, until you know all the notes. While that's partially true, its also a really discouraging thing. Its not a complete mystery without knowing all of the notes, but knowing them sure does help. If he starts with, say learning how to find any of the notes' names, rather than getting a chart and starting to memorize, he'll be much better off and take more to theory.

Quote by Sean0913
So when you made that comment - keep in mind Ive taught hundreds - upwards of 500 students I can claim, and knowing what I have taught and what these guys can do, then okay, say what you will...but I wanna see you play it on guitar. Demonstrate total autonomy on the fretboard fluidly using nothing but your stacked thirds, and then Ill do the same showing notes on the neck and my scale approach.


I use more than stacked thirds. I was saying something in a thread about stacked thirds once, which I think was dealing with diatonic triads. I use stacking of thirds to generate diatonic chords. Now that I know my diatonic chords, and stacked thirds to find them so often, I don't need to do that anymore, as they are know memorized (even though I never sat down and memorized them. I just learned it through use). I can't post a video for several reasons. I don't have a video camera, and don't want to spend money on one. Its very easy to fake something in a video, so even if I did make a video, that wouldn't prove anything. I know my notes on the fretboard (even though it took me quite a while of just playing, and eventually I started to remember them better), so even if I did do a genuine video, it wouldn't really mean anything.

Quote by Sean0913
Because Ive taught hundreds, you can bet your bottom dollar Im going to speak up when someone suggests that theory should be learned without the guitar.


This makes me think we're arguing the same thing. My point about memorizing the notes, was to learn how to figure a note out (know the string name, and count to the fret number or whatever else works for someone), and then when playing guitar, try and think of the notes your playing, eventually they will become memorized without you really having to try. Don't just sit down with a chart and memorize.


Quote by Sean0913
Whether you believe this or not, I agree with you - its a huge task for a beginner. But, I do it every single day...so what's wrong with this picture? The answer is, it's (theory) has long been made complicated and abstract, and you better well sure think that when someone wants to know theory, as a guitar player, they want to be able to play it - so when you learn that a C# is the third of A major, you should want to know the notes on the neck to play it everywhere. You've seen my videos demonstrating triads and chords and notes. How did I get there, if I didn't use traditional means of learning theory?


I think you and me are just doing it in the opposite order. I would already know the shapes of major thirds, so that I can play C♯s given A's, and then I would say "ohh this is the third of A, what was that again? oh yeah C♯!". Different ways work better for different people, and I'm sure either way can work fine.


Quote by Sean0913
This was put out as honest as it can be - 144 different string and fret combinations ... very difficult. Is it any wonder so few know their notes on the neck? This is why I've made it my life's passion to help others mate.


Well the 144 was more of what I was using to make it seem a worse task then it is. The E strings are the same, and after the 12th fret everything repeats, so without any other patterns, you can just learn 60 things, which is alot easier. I was just using the biggest number I could (without just counting the 240 on my 40 fret guitar, or the 168 on my 7 string guitar), to show that nobody wants to sit down and memorize it. The way to do it, is to learn it through use.

You seem like you know what you're doing, and it just seems like we have different methods leading to the same thing, and end up arguing over misunderstandings and semantics.
#21
Quote by isaac_bandits
It is important to be able to figure out where any note is. However, it is very difficult for most people to sit down and memorize 144 different string and fret combinations. Its alot better if they start with learning the major scale, and the interval pattern of it, so that they can actually start to play in keys, and see how transposition does not affect intervals, even though it affects notes. Eventually, through playing, you have to think about what note your playing, and you'll soon enough know them just by playing them. That way you don't have to waste your time trying to just memorize the intervals.
Ok that makes sense - and if you can find your way around in terms of intervals I guess you start to know the notes pretty quickly too whether you want to or not lol
#22
Quote by isaac_bandits


You seem like you know what you're doing, and it just seems like we have different methods leading to the same thing, and end up arguing over misunderstandings and semantics.


Your explanation explained a lot and made a lot of sense...now I see we are both basically trying to say the same thing, your musical explanation and background makes a whole lot of sense now. It's all good!
#23
I know it's a vague answer but Just have to keep learning and practicing as much as possible and although everything is helpful in the end, you would do well to mostly focus on only one or two genres so you can get really good at them
GENERATION 10: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
#24
Quote by Broch


I think i really need to learn some basic knowledge on how music is made.
Like if im in a band, and we need too write a song, and the other guitarist say, lets make a song in the key of A or whatever, and then he starts to play something.
But there i would be lost... where the hell should i play, what scale fit?
What CHord Progressions, when and why should i use Capo.

Martin (:


so you know a bunch of songs and can play them really well, but you can't find something with your ear that would sound good with your bandmate? I dont really understand that tbh. If you've been listening to what you're playing, that skill should be somewhat developed and usable in a creative way.

I mean the theory will give you some more tools to work with it, and I would highly encourage that, but you can listen now and you can be creative now.

as far as what exactly you should learn in what order. Lessons or a class would be the best way to get some direction.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jan 3, 2010,
#25
Regarding the whole intervals vs notes thing - I think that both approaches are valid and that you should learn both - just take all the knowledge out there and soak it all up and put it together. Specifically regarding notes vs intervals, I think one will work better than the other depending on the scenario. Suppose I already know A minor - A B C D E F G. If I want to learn A harmonic minor, thinking in note names is likely to be effective. Just raise the G to G# and voila. But if I wanted to learn F minor - F G Ab Bb C Db Eb - that's four flats to remember. Way too much. I'm probably going to have better luck with intervals, since they are the same intervals I learned for Am, just starting at a different root.
I think how effective each approach is is also going to vary from person to person - whether they lean more towards absolute or relative pitch, and just how their brain is wired in general.