#1
Hey guys, for my school jazz band, my band conductor would like me to add a guitar solo to this one part of the song. The chord changes are Bb7 G7 Cm7 and F7. I know that all of the chords (expect Cm7) have a F in common so it would be a good note to hit for the most part. I was just wondering what scales I could use for these changes and maybe even some licks that you guys know of?
#5
well, if you keep it simple, you could use Bb mixolydian, G mixolydian, C dorian, and then F mixolydian. keeping F as a tonal center (save for Cmin7, of course, which is your basis for adding a little color) would be a good idea. but to keep it more fluid, i would worry more about transitioning from chord to chord, rather than establishing that F as a tonal center. for example, i would transition from Bb7 to G7 on D (or F), then from G7 to Cmin7 on G (or B), then from Cmin7 to F7 on C (or Eb), and then from F7 back to Bb7 on F (Bb for a solid ending). i mean, that's a basic way of looking at it, but, hey, it works. continue in that line of thought and work it out (on paper if need be). remember, if it sounds good, it's not a wrong answer.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#6
Quote by AeolianWolf
well, if you keep it simple, you could use Bb mixolydian, G mixolydian, C dorian, and then F mixolydian. keeping F as a tonal center (save for Cmin7, of course, which is your basis for adding a little color) would be a good idea. but to keep it more fluid, i would worry more about transitioning from chord to chord, rather than establishing that F as a tonal center. for example, i would transition from Bb7 to G7 on D (or F), then from G7 to Cmin7 on G (or B), then from Cmin7 to F7 on C (or Eb), and then from F7 back to Bb7 on F (Bb for a solid ending). i mean, that's a basic way of looking at it, but, hey it works. continue in that line of thought and work it out (on paper if need be). remember, if it sounds good, it's not a wrong answer.


Thanks man.
#7
You COULD use mixo for all of the 7 chords, and then dorian for the C-7, but theres a bunch of scales you could use. Start with mixo and dorian though, use chords tones, and add chromatics.
#8
np mangs!

also, listen to hollow. chord tones generally work great, but if you throw in some chromatics (esp. chromatic passing tones), you get a really distinctive sound.

but, really, if this isn't going to be your magnum opus, you don't need to waste your time creating a solo that people will remember for thousands of years to come. just make it sound good so everyone thinks you kick ass.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#9
Something to add/correct from the comments:

You don't just change scales in the middle of a song, unless there's a key change. You just account for accidentals and alter the scale you have.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#10
That looks to me like its in B♭. It seems like a V7/ii - ii7 - V7 - I7. So you could use a B♭ scale for the whole thing, but be wary of the B♭ over the G7, and be wary of the A♮ over the B♭7. Or you could just use chord tones.
#12
Quote by schecter ftw
Kk, so chord tones are just all the notes of the chord played in different patterns?


Yeah. You might want to try having some passing tones, if your feeling them, but base it on the chord tones.
#13
Quote by food1010
Something to add/correct from the comments:

You don't just change scales in the middle of a song, unless there's a key change. You just account for accidentals and alter the scale you have.


I would happen to disagree, in a jazz context where you have many non-diatonic chords you have to take it as a chord by chord basis; at least that is what I have been led to believe after two years of music education.
#14
Quote by hollow1928years
I would happen to disagree, in a jazz context where you have many non-diatonic chords you have to take it as a chord by chord basis; at least that is what I have been led to believe after two years of music education.
Come to think of it, you certainly could switch from, say the natural minor scale to the harmonic minor scale of the same tonic, or from the major scale to the minor pentatonic as in blues (as well as many other types of scale changes which may be less common), but to the best of my understanding if you change the tonic, it's a key change. If you had C G Am F, for example, you aren't going to play the C major scale over the C, the G major scale over the G, the A natural minor scale over the Am, and the F major scale over the F. Well, you could, but then that would make every chord change also a key change. If they weren't key changes, but you still wanted those accidentals, the scale changes would be C major (or ionian if you're thinking in terms of modes), G Lydian, back to C major, C mixolydian.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#15
Quote by AeolianWolf
well, if you keep it simple, you could use Bb mixolydian, G mixolydian, C dorian, and then F mixolydian. keeping F as a tonal center (save for Cmin7, of course, which is your basis for adding a little color) would be a good idea. but to keep it more fluid, i would worry more about transitioning from chord to chord, rather than establishing that F as a tonal center. for example, i would transition from Bb7 to G7 on D (or F), then from G7 to Cmin7 on G (or B), then from Cmin7 to F7 on C (or Eb), and then from F7 back to Bb7 on F (Bb for a solid ending). i mean, that's a basic way of looking at it, but, hey, it works. continue in that line of thought and work it out (on paper if need be). remember, if it sounds good, it's not a wrong answer.



^^^^^

This. As good an answer as I could have given.
#16
Quote by food1010
Come to think of it, you certainly could switch from, say the natural minor scale to the harmonic minor scale of the same tonic, or from the major scale to the minor pentatonic as in blues (as well as many other types of scale changes which may be less common), but to the best of my understanding if you change the tonic, it's a key change. If you had C G Am F, for example, you aren't going to play the C major scale over the C, the G major scale over the G, the A natural minor scale over the Am, and the F major scale over the F. Well, you could, but then that would make every chord change also a key change. If they weren't key changes, but you still wanted those accidentals, the scale changes would be C major (or ionian if you're thinking in terms of modes), G Lydian, back to C major, C mixolydian.


What you say does make sense, but the example you gave is all diatonic chords. Once you start adding chords far out of key you its unpractical to relate everything to the tonic.

What about when you have something like:

Cmaj7 | F-7 | E7| Bb7 | A7 | D7 | D-7 | Db7 | Cmaj7

Over the diatonic chords you could say that you're soloing in C + whatever mode it would be. The chords I added that are 'out of key' I wouldn't consider a key change, and I also wouldn't think of everything related to C, I would think of it as the root of the chord plus the related scale.

At least that is how I was taught to think of it.
#17
Quote by hollow1928years
I would happen to disagree, in a jazz context where you have many non-diatonic chords you have to take it as a chord by chord basis; at least that is what I have been led to believe after two years of music education.


That's typically what jazz players think, and I see no reason to say its wrong to call it that either. Some other players insist that it should be called accidentals, and if they want to think of it that way, its fine too. It seems a little silly to argue over it.
#18
Quote by hollow1928years
What you say does make sense, but the example you gave is all diatonic chords. Once you start adding chords far out of key you its unpractical to relate everything to the tonic.

What about when you have something like:

Cmaj7 | F-7 | E7| Bb7 | A7 | D7 | D-7 | Db7 | Cmaj7

Over the diatonic chords you could say that you're soloing in C + whatever mode it would be. The chords I added that are 'out of key' I wouldn't consider a key change, and I also wouldn't think of everything related to C, I would think of it as the root of the chord plus the related scale.

At least that is how I was taught to think of it.
I understand what you're saying as well, and I agree, but you can't just change tonics in the middle of the song.

I honestly don't think there's any statement that satisfies both of our arguments. Not that either of us are wrong, it's just all about perspective, and bending rules which shouldn't necessarily be followed at face value always.

What I was saying, I learned from Isaac_Bandits (I believe it was him), maybe he has some better reasoning for it

Quote by isaac_bandits
That's typically what jazz players think, and I see no reason to say its wrong to call it that either. Some other players insist that it should be called accidentals, and if they want to think of it that way, its fine too. It seems a little silly to argue over it.
Ah, there you go. That works for me.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
Last edited by food1010 at Jan 2, 2010,
#19
Quote by food1010
I understand what you're saying as well, and I agree, but you can't just change tonics in the middle of the song.

I honestly don't think there's any statement that satisfies both of our arguments. Not that either of us are wrong, it's just all about perspective, and bending rules which shouldn't necessarily be followed at face value always.

What I was saying, I learned from Isaac_Bandits (I believe it was him), maybe he has some better reasoning for it


I probably said something about not changing the name of the scale because the chord changed. Its kind of silly to talk about using C major then F lydian then G mixolydian over a C - F - G progression, when its all the same notes. But, if you have a progression with out of key chords, there's nothing wrong with using different scales over different chords, and describing it as such, thinking in terms of the chord's root as the root of the scale, even though that chord isn't the tonic. Sometimes you can't even think of it in terms of the tonic because the tonics not there. Say you have a ♭II7 - I progression. You might use a lydian dominant over the ♭II7, and this chord doesn't even have the tonic note, as it would be the major seventh of the ♭II7 chord, and the lydian dominant scale your using over it doesn't have this major seventh either.
#20
Try messing around with the scales you use every time the progression repeats, like maybe like AeolianWolf said, Bb mix, G mix, C dor, and then F mix. Then maybe play phyrgian dominant over one of the dom7 chords and switching to C minor for Cm7.