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#1
So lately I've been watching a lot of action movies, some old ones and a lot of new ones too.

In particular it was Avatar and Terminator Salvation that made me notice this.

While watching them I noticed something. In a lot of the older movies, towards the end there is usually some big climactic battle between the main character and the antagonist. Preferably one on one in hand to hand combat. The James Bond movies are good examples of this.

In the newer movies, this hardly ever happens. They is just usually some big epic battle of some kind, then the battle ends and the movie reaches closure. The attempts at a final battle are usually just either the main character getting his ass kicked, then coming back in the end, or just the main character fighting in the main battle.

I don't know what it is, but newer movies just don't have final battles anymore like they used to. Anyone have any ideas as to why?
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#2
They cost more to do and nowadays people will just go see movies because they're popular/well advertised, you don't need word of mouth about them being any good. Minimum cost = maximum profit.
#4
Quote by Lord-O-Donuts
Usually near the end of movies.


is this meant to be a complete sentence?
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#5
Well, Avatars is pretty Badass, but i would say because of the way that movies have changed ,directors think people want more action than just 1 on 1 they want people to see more violence
#6
Quote by Pipsicles
They cost more to do and nowadays people will just go see movies because they're popular/well advertised, you don't need word of mouth about them being any good. Minimum cost = maximum profit.


Avatar was mentioned as an example.

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#9
I know what you mean, it's like the downplay the main protagonist and make him seem more human. I want a super human killing everyone! Goku ftw
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#11
The last "final battle" I watched was in the second Fantastic Four movie.

Dr. Doom: I HAVE RETURNED!
F4: Go away
Dr. Doom: K.

Silver Surfer: Lol, I'm going to fly into this space dude.

It actually took me longer to type that than it did for the fights to end, and I'm a quick typer. Typist. Typerist.
#12
Quote by The Kush
I thought Avatar's final battle between Jake and the dick in the robot suit was good.


Yeah I know, it was awesome. That's what I am trying to say here, that was probably the first climactic final battle I've seen in years. Well from new movies anyway.

edit:
*to guy above me

wow you must be a super typist
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Last edited by RazorTheAwesome at Jan 2, 2010,
#13
Miami Vice.

[although it disappointed me]

Idea:

People are more an more gearing towards realism - ie - HD tv , Reality TV , games/animation graphics.
Reality doesnt really deal in boss fights, therefore
big fight ---> end.
=MAY THE HAND OF GOD STRIKE THEM DOWN=

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#14
Quote by The Kush
I thought Avatar's final battle between Jake and the dick in the robot suit was good.


He happened to be the second-most-respectable human character in the film. "Dick" is hardly an appropriate adjective.

EDIT: In response to thread: They probably think boss battles are unoriginal. I hope I'm not the only one who sees the irony in this.
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Last edited by Athabasca at Jan 2, 2010,
#15
Quote by Athabasca
He happened to be the second-most-respectable human character in the film. "Dick" is hardly an appropriate adjective.


He was not respectable!!! He tried to kill all teh bl00 peeplez
#16
Quote by Stryfe391
He was not respectable!!! He tried to kill all teh bl00 peeplez


I'm not sure whether you are being facetious or not.

In any case, this is compared to Jake who happily killed dozens of his own kind?

EDIT: Most respectable human was Grace, imo.
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#18
Quote by RazorTheAwesome
Yeah I know, it was awesome. That's what I am trying to say here, that was probably the first climactic final battle I've seen in years. Well from new movies anyway.


Oh, I thought you were listing Avatar and Terminator as movies that show how final battles have disappeared. I didn't see Salvation, so I wouldn't know about that.

And when I say "dick in the robot suit", I'm not trying to say anything about the moral messages of the movie. I just meant the "bad guy".
#19
Quote by Stryfe391
He was not respectable!!! He tried to kill all teh bl00 peeplez


YEAH! How is that respectable?
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#20
Quote by Beanie_Ben
Miami Vice.

[although it disappointed me]

Idea:

People are more an more gearing towards realism - ie - HD tv , Reality TV , games/animation graphics.
Reality doesnt really deal in boss fights, therefore
big fight ---> end.


I can see what you are saying but if you want to make a good movie its always satisfying to see the antagonist get their ass kicked in the end. Literally or figuratively.

Quote by Athabasca
He happened to be the second-most-respectable human character in the film. "Dick" is hardly an appropriate adjective.

EDIT: In response to thread: They probably think boss battles are unoriginal. I hope I'm not the only one who sees the irony in this.


You are joking right, that guy was the biggest douche I have ever seen. Whoever made him a general should be fired instantly. It was like they made a point to make him completely unlikable by anyone.

On your second point, yes I see the irony in that. And as unoriginal as it may be, it still makes for a good ending.
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#22
Why is everyone angry about killing blue people? They killed humans too, y'know.
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#23
Quote by Athabasca
Why is everyone angry about killing blue people? They killed humans too, y'know.



The humans invaded their planet...
#24
Quote by Athabasca
Why is everyone angry about killing blue people? They killed humans too, y'know.


yes but they were just trying to live their happy little blue lives while the humans wanted to come in and take all their stuff without asking for it, and the best way to do this (well to them at least) was to kill them all.
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Basically god wanted to punish people for getting educated/eating apples.

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#25
Quote by Athabasca
Why is everyone angry about killing blue people? They killed humans too, y'know.


The humans were the aggressors. "Hey, we want some unobtainium, so let's blow up their home and destroy their way of life to make a buck." The blue people were perfectly justified in fighting back, you can't hold it against them.

Also, unobtainium? Seriously? Come on, they could have done better than that.
#26
The humans didn't come down with hostile intentions. They didn't establish a base on the planet with the deliberate purpose of killing the natives. Granted, the fact they had to kill that massive tree is regrettable, although it could have been done more graciously if the Na'vi had actually evacuated one of the several times they were actually given the chance to do so.
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#27
I'm sorry, but if I was a 10 foot tall blue alien with a tail, and some humans told me to get out of my tree, I'd refuse. They've got no business coming to my planet and telling me what to do. And if they bomb my tree, then by God I'm gonna jump onto my pterodactyl and **** em up.
#28
Quote by The Kush
I'm sorry, but if I was a 10 foot tall blue alien with a tail, and some humans told me to get out of my tree, I'd refuse. They've got no business coming to my planet and telling me what to do. And if they bomb my tree, then by God I'm gonna jump onto my pterodactyl and **** em up.


Damn straight
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\m/
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Basically god wanted to punish people for getting educated/eating apples.

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#29
You all seem to keep forgetting that the Na'vi were offered several different solutions to the problem. Are you forgetting that the humans tried to establish diplomatic relations with them through the Avatar program? And that they offered the Na'vi healthcare, education, and technology?

Arguing this point is stupid anyway. All I was arguing is that Quaritch, after Grace, is the real HUMAN protagonist of the film. Unlike that dickhead Jake, neither of them betrayed their own race or were glorified in doing so. KEYWORD HERE PEOPLE. HUMAN.
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#30
Quote by Athabasca
You all seem to keep forgetting that the Na'vi were offered several different solutions to the problem. Are you forgetting that the humans tried to establish diplomatic relations with them through the Avatar program? And that they offered the Na'vi healthcare, education, and technology?

Arguing this point is stupid anyway. All I was arguing is that Quaritch, after Grace, is the real HUMAN protagonist of the film. Unlike that dickhead Jake, neither of them betrayed their own race or were glorified in doing so. KEYWORD HERE PEOPLE. HUMAN.


You're making the Na'vi seem unreasonable. I think they had more of a right to maintain their way of life than the humans had to try and take the unobtainium. (God, that's such a stupid name.) Jake didn't betray the human race, he betrayed a bunch of soldiers who were about to bomb Mother Nature's internet tree.
#31
If a movie was structured along the lines of an old plot, then critics would probably call it predictable. And with today's editing technology, having the final battle be hand to hand fighting seems like they would be squandering potential epicness.

Not that I agree with that, though.
#32
Does the movie ever explain how the Na'vi all learned to speak English??
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#33
Quote by Athabasca
The humans didn't come down with hostile intentions. They didn't establish a base on the planet with the deliberate purpose of killing the natives. Granted, the fact they had to kill that massive tree is regrettable, although it could have been done more graciously if the Na'vi had actually evacuated one of the several times they were actually given the chance to do so.


You are so stupid. You should have been on the Bush cabinet.

I'm a Na'vi. Humans come telling me to move, no matter how peaceful. I decline: I like where I am. It is sacred to me. I don't really care what you want, I mean you have no right here. Why should I move?

Idiot.
#34
Quote by E_squared
Does the movie ever explain how the Na'vi all learned to speak English??


Grace (or possibly someone else) had already established at least one school for the Na'vi, but it got closed or something.
#35
Quote by The Kush
Grace (or possibly someone else) had already established at least one school for the Na'vi, but it got closed or something.

Oh yeah I forgot about that. I think it would have been cool to have all of the Na'vi dialouge with english subtitles instead. But without the stupid elven-LOTR-looking font on the subtitles.

EDIT: Woah, that was way off topic. oops
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Last edited by E_squared at Jan 2, 2010,
#36
Quote by duncang
Avatar was mentioned as an example.

Stop being wrong


I don't care

Well done for pointing out the exception to the rule that the TS pointed out, great work asshat.

Also you might have realised I wasn't even talking about that movie considering the budget is rather large
Last edited by Pipsicles at Jan 2, 2010,
#37
Quote by E_squared
Oh yeah I forgot about that. I think it would have been cool to have all of the Na'vi dialouge with english subtitles instead. But without the stupid LOTR-looking font on the subtitles.


I would've found that annoying.
#38
Quote by Beanie_Ben
Miami Vice.

[although it disappointed me]

Idea:

People are more an more gearing towards realism - ie - HD tv , Reality TV , games/animation graphics.
Reality doesnt really deal in boss fights, therefore
big fight ---> end.

I don't get this. Why is everything becoming more realistic? What's so great about reality? Aren't books, movies, video games etc. supposed to be a form of escapism?
#39
Quote by The Kush
You're making the Na'vi seem unreasonable. I think they had more of a right to maintain their way of life than the humans had to try and take the unobtainium. (God, that's such a stupid name.) Jake didn't betray the human race, he betrayed a bunch of soldiers who were about to bomb Mother Nature's internet tree.


On the subject of the Na'vi, I think it was merely stubborn of them to keep opposing the humans, which RESULTED in the utter destruction of their home. Considering the lengths and costs the humans were going to in order to establish relations with the Na'vi initially (hence the Avatar program), I think it unlikely that if the Na'vi had co-operated in the first place the humans would have just left them displaced like that. In any case, the argument of "rights" is dependent on your own philosophies anyway. That is why it is pointless to argue this, I think.

Consider Jake's claim that Earth was dying; presumably from depletion of natural resources. Suppose unobtainium was a solution to a global energy crisis? Then not only is Jake betraying a few soldiers, he IS betraying the entire human race by denying them a vital energy source. Suppose it is used for more trivial purposes? Jake is still betraying his own race by denying them access to a potentially habitable planet which could help solve the problems posed by overpopulation. The fact that the Na'vi have some primitive religion and no advanced technology does not automatically give them the "right" to their own culture and way of life at the expense of our own.

EDIT: I do agree it is wrong to go in there and kill the Na'vi for the resources, but a) the Na'vi could have simply gone somewhere else, and b) I think the needs of human civilization come before those of another.
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Last edited by Athabasca at Jan 2, 2010,
#40
Quote by Athabasca
On the subject of the Na'vi, I think it was merely stubborn of them to keep opposing the humans, which RESULTED in the utter destruction of their home. Considering the lengths and costs the humans were going to in order to establish relations with the Na'vi initially (hence the Avatar program), I think it unlikely that if the Na'vi had co-operated in the first place the humans would have just left them displaced like that. In any case, the argument of "rights" is dependent on your own philosophies anyway. That is why it is pointless to argue this, I think.

Consider Jake's claim that Earth was dying; presumably from depletion of natural resources. Suppose unobtainium was a solution to a global energy crisis? Then not only is Jake betraying a few soldiers, he IS betraying the entire human race by denying them a vital energy source. Suppose it is used for more trivial purposes? Jake is still betraying his own race by denying them access to a potentially habitable planet which could help solve the problems posed by overpopulation. The fact that the Na'vi have some primitive religion and no advanced technology does not automatically give them the "right" to their own culture and way of life at the expense of our own.


Like you said, the argument of "rights" is dependent on one's own viewpoints. You're assuming that the humans are superior to the Na'vi, and the humans' desires are somehow automatically more important. If an alien race came to our planet and demanded we change our entire way of life or else they'd declare war, how would you react?
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