#1
Well, rather than create 1001 new threads on questions related to my eventual new rig (head, cab, etc) I figured using this one thread would keep me from looking like a spammer.

@ MODS: It is okay if I keep this 'stuck for me' so I don't lose it, and periodically ask new questions here, so long as I don't let it stagnate for like 6 months, right?

Okay, so question of the day:

I'm looking at getting an avatar speaker cab, but I'd like to know how the wattage rating of the cab compared to the wattage of the head affects how much distortion I can get.

I know many people run higher wattage heads into lower wattage cabs, to push the speakers harder and get more distortion, but would running say, a 30W tube head into a 212 cab rated at 150W severely impede my ability to generate really heavy distortion?
#3
he means stick for me - you can stick it on your page but no-one elses.

As for cabs, it dosen't really make much of a difference. Some speakers (like Vintage 30s) take a lot of pushing to break up but the main thing that causes distortion is the preamp (on most amps) and not the speakers clipping.

What head is it you're looking at?
I'll ask the usual
Budget?
Gigging?
Genres?
Influences?
Will go Used?
#4
Quote by Quinlan
I know many people run higher wattage heads into lower wattage cabs, to push the speakers harder and get more distortion, but would running say, a 30W tube head into a 212 cab rated at 150W severely impede my ability to generate really heavy distortion?

Really? Never heard of anyone doing that. Speaker distortion sounds pretty bad IMO.
#5
I've done the research I need to on what heads, so I have an idea of what I want.

However, as of now I'm not dead set on a head, but I've taken a liking to the Orange Dual Terror and Rocker 30. I don't have much hopes for those popping up used down here, but if I come across a Sunn head or a Peavey VTM, I'll definitely be checking those out.

I suppose I could respond with the usual:

No gigging (yet) but am doing a bit of recording.

No fixed budget, (in the process of saving, NOTE: future rig) but preferably as far under $2000 as possible.

I'm looking at bassy Stonerish-metal (Kyuss, Down, The Sword) but I still would like my stuff to be relatively versatile for stuff like Tool, Wolfmother, QOTSA, and has decent cleans.
#7
Quote by WtrPlyr
Really? Never heard of anyone doing that. Speaker distortion sounds pretty bad IMO.

You do realize the sound of 60s and 70s rock is largely speaker distortion, don't you?
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#8
Quote by matt_0_5
Don't be a tool, fool. Stuff like this doesn't get stuck
I should report your bloody ass.

Quote by Quinlan
@ MODS: It is okay if I keep this 'stuck for me' so I don't lose it, and periodically ask new questions here, so long as I don't let it stagnate for like 6 months, right?
You can stick threads yourself: Right above your OP (opening post) there is a link that says Stick for me. And if you have it set-up, the thread will be automatically added to your subsciption list, which then can be found in Control Panel. You can also find the thread on your homepage - click All Threads below your photograph.
And there is nothing wrong with bumping an old thread if you have something valid to say.

I'm looking at getting an avatar speaker cab, but I'd like to know how the wattage rating of the cab compared to the wattage of the head affects how much distortion I can get.
Avatar make great speaker cabinets, mostly coming equipped with Vintage 30 speakers, which have a rouded, slightly mid-bumped character. They also break up pretty easily.
I wouldn't worry about it too much as they tend to suit most amplifiers and most watts. But, if you are playing through a 5 watt head - a 1x12 is likely the most appropriate. While a 2x12 or 4x12 is more suitable for anything above 50 watts.

I know many people run higher wattage heads into lower wattage cabs, to push the speakers harder and get more distortion, but would running say, a 30W tube head into a 212 cab rated at 150W severely impede my ability to generate really heavy distortion?
It won't severely impede it, no. It'll just give you a different voicing. You have to test it out for yourself.

However, as of now I'm not dead set on a head, but I've taken a liking to the Orange Dual Terror and Rocker 30. I don't have much hopes for those popping up used down here, but if I come across a Sunn head or a Peavey VTM, I'll definitely be checking those out.
The Orange Tiny Terror is a nice amp if you're not interested in clean tones. It's pretty rippin' if you crank the volume and the gain up. I've heard the Dual Terror is just a slightly more versatile and louder version than the TT, maybe with a little more clean headroom (which seems pointless on Tiny Terror)
I'm looking at bassy Stonerish-metal (Kyuss, Down, The Sword) but I still would like my stuff to be relatively versatile for stuff like Tool, Wolfmother, QOTSA, and has decent cleans.
Orange amps are very suited for stoner-metal - they have a very dark and grainy voicing.

That said, a Soldano is probably your best bet. Are you a fan of High On Fire, the band?
#9
High on Fire is nice. Would it be a safe assumption that they use Soldanos?

Avatar make great speaker cabinets, mostly coming equipped with Vintage 30 speakers, which have a rounded, slightly mid-bumped character. They also break up pretty easily.


What about G12T75s? I used Avatar's Tone Selector flash deal to get previews of different speaker/amp setups, and I was most attracted to the dark, bassiness of the G12T75s. I also noticed in researching Orange gear, that most of Orange's cabs come equipped w/ V30s. Would they be my best bet for complementing an Orange, assuming I end up with one?
#11
Quote by bubb_tubbs
You do realize the sound of 60s and 70s rock is largely speaker distortion, don't you?

Fairly certain that, as SwampAshSpecial said, it was the powertubes being overdriven, not the speakers distorting. Speaker distortion sounds awful.
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Women and children first
And the children first
And the children
#12
Quote by Quinlan
High on Fire is nice. Would it be a safe assumption that they use Soldanos?
He used to play Matamps, a boutique brand from North England. They aren't particularly high-gain without an overdrive or fuzz pedal though, like Peaveys or Mesa Boogies - it isn't pure saturation. But maybe that's not what you're looking for. You could be looking for that dark, bluesy, articulation and character. I don't know.

He now uses Soldano, which is a high-gain amplifier. But they are incredibly priced and sometimes difficult to find, particularly the model he uses.
That said, you can pick up a Soldano Hot Rod 50 or Avenger 50 on ebay for $1000-1200 and a Soldano 2x12 for $400-600.

Or there's this, which I haven't personally tried.

You could also look into a Laney. The VC-30 or GH50L are nice, as is the VH100R, but it's extremely loud and a little expensive in the states.

What about G12T75s? I used Avatar's Tone Selector flash deal to get previews of different speaker/amp setups, and I was most attracted to the dark, bassiness of the G12T75s. I also noticed in researching Orange gear, that most of Orange's cabs come equipped w/ V30s. Would they be my best bet for complementing an Orange, assuming I end up with one?
I haven't actually played G12T75's (I made a thread about them not so long ago asking opinions) so I can't comment confidently. I've heard both good things and bad things about them.

In terms of Orange cabinets, they are certainly good. (In fact, Orange used to be Matamp) And they are made to suit Orange amplifiers. They also happen to suit Mesa Boogie, Peavey, Soldano, VHT, etc.

edit:
Quote by namesroverrated
Fairly certain that, as SwampAshSpecial said, it was the powertubes being overdriven, not the speakers distorting. Speaker distortion sounds awful.
Depends what you classify as "awful" and what you classify as "speaker distortion".
Last edited by AngryGoldfish at Jan 3, 2010,
#13
I haven't actually played G12T75's (I made a thread about them not so long ago asking opinions) so I can't comment confidently. I've heard both good things and bad things about them.


Anything you remember about them that was particularly good or bad? If I went to my local shop to get a couple of test runs on Oranges, what brand cabs might have G12T75s that I could use to hook up to?

In terms of Orange cabinets, they are certainly good. (In fact, Orange used to be Matamp) And they are made to suit Orange amplifiers. They also happen to suit Mesa Boogie, Peavey, Soldano, VHT, etc.


You mean the V30s suit lots of stuff, right?
#14
Quote by Quinlan
Anything you remember about them that was particularly good or bad? If I went to my local shop to get a couple of test runs on Oranges, what brand cabs might have G12T75s that I could use to hook up to?



You mean the V30s suit lots of stuff, right?
Here is my thread.

The Marshall 1936, 1960 and 1922 cabinets use G12T75's. Randall's RM100 combo uses them. As does Kirk Hammett's signature cab. I think a Bogner cabinet also uses a combination of G12's and V30's.

Like I said, I haven't heard the speakers myself so I can't comment on their tone. All I can do is tell you what other people have told me. Apparently they are quite harsh.
#15
Quote by SwampAshSpecial
AFAIK wasn't most of that powertube OD?

Hot PAFs, power tube OD and speaker distortion, in that order.

If you have a 120W cab (4 x G12h30) being driven by a 100W amp run full bore, there will be speaker distortion.

It really adds to the sound - a Plexi or Hiwatt DR103 just doesn't sound the same with a cleaner, higher wattage speaker like a V30.

I wish my Scumback Greenies were the lower wattage ones so I could push them harder but I wasn't considering speaker distortion when I had the cab built.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#16
QOTD:

I haven't yet gotten to try the Dual Terror yet, but are the cleans really that useless? I don't really need CRYSTAL clear cleans, but on a scale of 1 to spotless how clean does it get?

Also I've seen people comment on it not really being a gigging amp. Without a PA system and w/ a 212 cabinet how big are we talking gig-wise? I'm not huge rockstar or anything, but could it handle a decent sized crowd? (like a small local festival, maybe outside?)

Well, that was technically 2 questions, but I really do appreciate all the help and inisght guys!
#17
Quote by Quinlan
QOTD:

I haven't yet gotten to try the Dual Terror yet, but are the cleans really that useless? I don't really need CRYSTAL clear cleans, but on a scale of 1 to spotless how clean does it get?

Also I've seen people comment on it not really being a gigging amp. Without a PA system and w/ a 212 cabinet how big are we talking gig-wise? I'm not huge rockstar or anything, but could it handle a decent sized crowd? (like a small local festival, maybe outside?)

Well, that was technically 2 questions, but I really do appreciate all the help and inisght guys!
The cleans aren't useless (I may of given off the wrong impression before) It's just that if you are on the look-out for an incredibly shimmering clean amp to be impressed with, you'd be better off with something like a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or a Hiwatt. If, though, you want crunchy rythym and hot leads the Orange, then, will be more appropriate.

I can't tell you how well a Dual Terror will cope with a gig, but it is a loud amp. A 2x12 (or even a 1x12) can definitely drown out the heaviest of un-mic'ed drummers. Whether it will cope with a festival, I couldn't tell you for sure - it's too open of a question; it has no definitive answer.

Many places do actually mic your amp up anyway.
#18
QOTD:

I've come across several used amps on places like eBay and Craigslist, but some of them are pretty old (ranging from 70s to early 90s) and being that they're used (and old) most sellers have a no refund policy and that they can't guarantee the amp won't break based on age.

What are some common problems with older amps (outside of dead tubes) that are still fixable? If I get an older amp, what are the chances it will eventually break and still be repairable?
#19
The funny thing about ebay and craigslist is that things eventually disappear.

Does anyone have any suggestions for buying old vintage gear regarding whether or not it tends to get broken because its old? What about repairs? Cheap? Usually pretty expensive? Anything?
#20
Your best bet for avoiding tragedy when it comes to old amps is to only do Craigslist and Kijiji ads so you can test them in person.

I'd never buy a vintage amp sight unseen.

Things to check? A couple things I look for when I go testing:

1) Look up pictures of the arrangement of controls and jacks on the outside, as well as the circuit board, tubes and transformers on the inside.

Sometimes vintage gear has had components replaced and the seller doesn't tell you. If this is the case, and you still like the sound, you can usually get a price reduction if you call them on it.

2) Check the tubes for microphonic preamp tubes and dying power tubes.

Another price reduction can be had here.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Feel free to express yours so I can make an informed judgement about how stupid you are.
#21
QOTD:

Anybody have any info on Sovtek MIG series amps?

I've heard they don't do much tube overdriving with the volume cranked, but all the distortion is controlled by the gain knob. Because tube overdrive is one of the big differences between tube and SS amps (obviously) will that really affect how warm the amp is?

I realize its a tube amp but still...

Anything?
#22
So after a really long break I'm back, with a new offering/question.

Peavey stuff is really easy to get where I live and I'm always looking to scale down on the budget. So I know Valvekings aren't known for being the most 'metal' Peavey amps, but does it sound feasible to get a big, raunchy and bassy tone from one if I were to boost it with say, this:

http://amtelectronicsusa.com/productpagediststation.html

Based on the voicing options (has Marshallish and Mesaish modes, and well as a Fender-like mode) that I could manage a good Stoner metal tone?

Is it too complicated for just being a boost? Should I look elsewhere?
#23
if you look at peavey try finding one of their more metal voiced amps. they aren't that much more.
I dunno about that pedal...can't really go wrong with a tubescreamer though. I'd stay away from that thing in linked.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#24
QOTD:

Do higher rated cabs have better bass response? What about higher volume? I'm still trying to decide if I want an cab with V30s or G12H30s. At 412 w/ G12H30s the cab would be 120W, but with V30s it would be 240W, and a comination of both would still be 120W.

Anything?
#26
Quote by namesroverrated
Fairly certain that, as SwampAshSpecial said, it was the powertubes being overdriven, not the speakers distorting. Speaker distortion sounds awful.


It's nice having speaker distortion ontop of poweramp distortion, works very well when you have a 100 watt plexiface and a 4x12 loaded with greenbacks
#27
Thanks! Sounds like I'm set on my speakers then, unless I were to get a tube head with more than 120W...
#28
^a 100 watt amp can push more then 100 watts when the powertubes are cooking. it's not really wise to have a rig with the same amount of wattage as the cab. i'd still get something like 30-50 watt speakers, speaker distortion isn't for everyone. in the end you won't really miss anything, poweramp distortion sounds way better imo
#29
The highest wattage head im looking at is only 60W... I wasn't looking to match it as I've heard you can push your cab too hard... I just wanted something that wasn't waaay overrated, like running a 50W Marshall into on of their 300W cabs.
#31
So now I'm down to picking speakers for my Avatar cab to go with the amp I scored on ebay. Out of all the things I've listened to, the most prominent choices seem to be either G12H30s or G12T75s.

Here's what I know:

G12H30: 30 watts, more balanced throughout the frequency range, but has lots of low end, easier to push because of low rating

G12T75: 75 watts, boosted highs and lows, scooped sounding, harder to push because of high rating

Questions:

I've read for metal you don't want a lot of speaker distortion. Comments?

I'm primarily looking for something that can do stoner rock/metal, doom etc, but is versatile enough to be passable at other stuff. Would any of the above genres want any sort of speaker distortion? I've no experience with speaker distortion, mainly because I've always played combos that had specially matched speakers for the amp.

So you know, I'm planning on running a 30 watt tube amp into a 412, so take that into consideration for the speaker distortion thought.

Are either of these particularly modern or vintage sounding? Are either capable of both? (proper question?)

At this point I really just need thoughts, so lemme know what you think!

Thanks!
#32
Quote by Quinlan
So now I'm down to picking speakers for my Avatar cab to go with the amp I scored on ebay. Out of all the things I've listened to, the most prominent choices seem to be either G12H30s or G12T75s.

Here's what I know:

G12H30: 30 watts, more balanced throughout the frequency range, but has lots of low end, easier to push because of low rating

G12T75: 75 watts, boosted highs and lows, scooped sounding, harder to push because of high rating

Questions:

I've read for metal you don't want a lot of speaker distortion. Comments?

I'm primarily looking for something that can do stoner rock/metal, doom etc, but is versatile enough to be passable at other stuff. Would any of the above genres want any sort of speaker distortion? I've no experience with speaker distortion, mainly because I've always played combos that had specially matched speakers for the amp.

So you know, I'm planning on running a 30 watt tube amp into a 412, so take that into consideration for the speaker distortion thought.

Are either of these particularly modern or vintage sounding? Are either capable of both? (proper question?)

At this point I really just need thoughts, so lemme know what you think!

Thanks!
Check out this and this video. They are an excellent example of the different speakers available. From my experience, the sound in those videos is very much akin to what you will hear in RL.

I personally don't like H30's and T75's that much; I think they are a little weak. But depending on what amp you're using, for stoner rock, they are quite nice.

I don't know if you've played an Orange head and cabinet, but they come stock with Vintage 30's and are ideal for doom because they are not too dark and woolly, which compliments the dark and woolly character of the amp head.

I actually quite like Hot 100's, Heritage 65's and Greenbacks, particularly for heavy stoner rock. But it's all up to you and your ears, really. I can't say what you'll like and won't like.
#33
Well, I ended up with a 30 watt AOR head, and I'm told that the AOR series can dial in Sleep's "Holy Mountain" tone very easily. Anyone know what speakers ye olde Green/Matamps came with?
#34
Quote by Quinlan
Well, I ended up with a 30 watt AOR head, and I'm told that the AOR series can dial in Sleep's "Holy Mountain" tone very easily. Anyone know what speakers ye olde Green/Matamps came with?
Well, I'm not sure what they came with, but I know that Matt Pike (the awesomeness in Sleep and High on Fire) uses a weird combination of speakers. You can find the info here in a Premier Guitar interview, at the bottom.

Send Matamp an email at info[at]Matamp dot co dot uk

They should answer. If not, give them a call on + 44 1484 859500