#1
Short and sweet; I've always loved a good Les Paul Junior. Playing a gig that should give me some extra cash, so I was looking into one. A few questions before I do though;

1. Is there any sort of tonal difference between a single-cut and a double-cut? I've heard people say there is, but that's a fairly farfetched claim to me.
2. Versatility? Simply put, I hear people go on about how versatile it is for one pickup. I like the sound but I also want something versatile, is this just disappointed owners comforting themselves or is it really versatile?

Thanks and as always greatly appreciated.
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#2
A particular brands?

I've played two or three of the Gibson ones, and they are really good. It isn't hugely versatile, because at the end of the day, it does only have one pickup. But if you're good at the old EQ, and know how to get the best from the controls, it can do a lot of stuff, from like rockabilly to metal (albeit the metal has a bit of noise, coming from a P90, still sounded good though). It's more comfortable than a normal LP as well, cause it's a bit slimmer, but still has that neck. I suppose the only downside is the fact that it has a wraparound bridge, but that can be sorted out easily.

I haven't played a double cut from Gibson though, so I can't really comment on that.
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#3
Quote by Lil Macker
A particular brands?


In all likelihood, a copy brand known as Dillion; I own two or three guitars from them and have played at least a dozen over the last four years or so, and each has been flawless, so quality isn't a huge concern for me. I am looking at Gibsons on eBay though, just because I'd prefer something with the nitrocellulose finish.

I've played two or three of the Gibson ones, and they are really good. It isn't hugely versatile, because at the end of the day, it does only have one pickup. But if you're good at the old EQ, and know how to get the best from the controls, it can do a lot of stuff, from like rockabilly to metal (albeit the metal has a bit of noise, coming from a P90, still sounded good though). It's more comfortable than a normal LP as well, cause it's a bit slimmer, but still has that neck. I suppose the only downside is the fact that it has a wraparound bridge, but that can be sorted out easily.

I haven't played a double cut from Gibson though, so I can't really comment on that.


Alright, thanks for the opinion mate. Anyone else, just since I like getting more than one?
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#4
Calling a les paul junior versatile is absurd. They may be useful, but they're about the least versatile guitar in existence.

And I doubt single cut vs. double cut makes a damn bit of difference. When was the last time you listened to a guitar player and said "That's a pretty good sounding cutaway he has there".
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#5
Quote by Even Bigger D
Calling a les paul junior versatile is absurd. They may be useful, but they're about the least versatile guitar in existence.

And I doubt single cut vs. double cut makes a damn bit of difference. When was the last time you listened to a guitar player and said "That's a pretty good sounding cutaway he has there".

Hmm, from the words of an owner of a '57 singlecut and a '59 double cut:

The double-cutaway Juniors have a slightly brighter sound than their single-cut forbears, probably the result of that significant missing chunk of wood around the neck joint.


http://www.guitargonauts.info/pick-39.html

Makes sense. If it doesn't make a difference then why don't les paul customs sound exactly like SGs?

And i don't know what you think versatility is, and i dunno, maybe i'm the one who is wrong here, but i thought it was to do with the range of musical styles the guitar would be well suited to.. not the amount of different tonal colours you can coax out of the instrument with fancy wiring options. What the junior delivers is just tone in its purest form, which any decent guitarist can fit into just about any style of music.

And no, i'm not one of those "i have one so they are awesome" kind of people - I don't have a proper LP junior. But i wish i did.
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Last edited by Blompcube at Jan 4, 2010,
#6
Quote by Blompcube


And i don't know what you think versatility is, and i dunno, maybe i'm the one who is wrong here, but i thought it was to do with the range of musical styles the guitar would be well suited to.. not the amount of different tonal colours you can coax out of the instrument with fancy wiring options. What the junior delivers is just tone in its purest form, which any decent guitarist can fit into just about any style of music.


Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I would hate to play a country gig with one, or a jazz gig, or a metal gig, or really anything but a oldies/classic rock or blues gig.

As far as a the cutaway, I still haven't ever listed to a player and marveled at the good sounding cutaway he's using.
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#7
Quote by Even Bigger D
Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I would hate to play a country gig with one, or a jazz gig, or a metal gig, or really anything but a oldies/classic rock or blues gig.

As far as a the cutaway, I still haven't ever listed to a player and marveled at the good sounding cutaway he's using.

All of those genres you listed except for jazz, i would probably pick one for above anything else.. but that's just me. I would guess that's a matter of preference and i'd be an idiot to tell you you "should" use a junior for those styles. But i think they work really well for those genres even if you don't see them commonly used.

However, basically if you can't grasp the fact that the shape of a guitar does affect the sound, even though you can't exactly hear that the guitar is a certain shape, i worry. Why do you think SGs sound different to les paul customs?
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#8
If you really want to play metal and country gigs on a LP junior, more power to you. Seems silly to me, but oh well. I think were you to actually try it you'd find out there's a reason other guitars are much preferred in those contexts.

And when you get right down to it, SGs and LPs with the same pickups don't sound THAT different. They're similar to the point that on good recordings you could easily be in doubt as to which you're hearing. What difference there is can be attributed mostly to the much thicker and heavier body on the LP.
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#9
Quote by Even Bigger D
If you really want to play metal and country gigs on a LP junior, more power to you. Seems silly to me, but oh well. I think were you to actually try it you'd find out there's a reason other guitars are much preferred in those contexts.

And when you get right down to it, SGs and LPs with the same pickups don't sound THAT different. They're similar to the point that on good recordings you could easily be in doubt as to which you're hearing. What difference there is can be attributed mostly to the much thicker and heavier body on the LP.

1) I choose use a les paul with humbuckers the few times i want to play country, instead of my strat, because it has the tonal depth i like in my clean tones, and even a bit of twang.. A junior would somewhat emphasize the twang in a way that i would find preferable for country whilst retaining the tonal depth the strat generally lacks. but i suppose i'm "wrong", aren't i? Of course i see why other guitars are much preferred in certain contexts.. but that doesn't mean everyone should just hop on the bandwagon and use the popular choice guitars. In the end though they may all be so very different, a guitar is a guitar. Just use whichever one you want to use, i say. And i've yet to find a genre in which the les paul junior really quite simply does not work.

2) Well, there you go. The difference is attributed to the greater amount of wood. You scoop away the upper bout of the body to make the guitar a double cutaway, you're taking some of the wood away, reducing the weight, and in a critical position, too. And les pauls and SGs sounding very similar? I beg to differ. I'm not saying i could tell the difference when i hear someone else playing one of each but i can certainly tell them apart when i play. And to me, that's what really counts.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
Last edited by Blompcube at Jan 4, 2010,
#10
Quote by Even Bigger D
If you really want to play metal and country gigs on a LP junior, more power to you. Seems silly to me, but oh well. I think were you to actually try it you'd find out there's a reason other guitars are much preferred in those contexts.

And when you get right down to it, SGs and LPs with the same pickups don't sound THAT different. They're similar to the point that on good recordings you could easily be in doubt as to which you're hearing. What difference there is can be attributed mostly to the much thicker and heavier body on the LP.

He never said he was going to be, he just said they were good for them. Of course there are guitars which are designed to be played certain styles, but the LP Jr can still do them too, it's not like something HAS to be designed for something to be able to do it. You clearly have never tried one.

Anyway, necrosis, haven't you already got a couple of Dillons guitars? Cause if I remember rightly you said they were really good. The only thing is, I'd be careful about buying them for the 'true' LP Jr tone, because the double cut's got an alder body, while the single cut has a mahogany body, and both have a maple neck. I mean, if you can afford the Gibson, and if you think it's worth it, I'd say go for it. They are really good to be honest, a bit of a hidden gem.

For a double cut though, or even SG Jr shapes, you could have a look at some MIJ Tokais, but I'm not sure if you can get them in America. You want to try and avoid the MIC ones, cause they're made of agathis, which is a bit dull, and have the maple necks again. But again, they're harder to find, the MIA has about the same build quality (IMO) and you wanted a nitro finish, and you won't get one with these.
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#11
Quote by Lil Macker
He never said he was going to be, he just said they were good for them.


My point is that by his own admission he's never tried it. The people who make a living playing country gigs have pretty consistent gear selection, and I think there's good reason for it. Les pauls have a place in country, especially the newer "rock with understandable vocals" style, but teles are the standard for a reason.
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#12
Quote by Even Bigger D
My point is that by his own admission he's never tried it. The people who make a living playing country gigs have pretty consistent gear selection, and I think there's good reason for it. Les pauls have a place in country, especially the newer "rock with understandable vocals" style, but teles are the standard for a reason.

I never said he was going to play country (or if I did, I didn't mean it ), I was just saying it can do it. Fair enough, if I HAD to play country and country alone, I'd probably choose a Tele, but if I was doing a bit of country, mostly rock and bluesy stuff, and maybe something a bit heavier, I'd seriously consider choosing a LP Jr. And I've chatted to necrosis before, and I know he plays Eric Clapton-y, Jeff Beck-y and Hendrix-y sort of blues rock, and I think a LP Jr would fix him up quite well. And if he wants to dabble in other stuff, the LP Jr can do it for him.
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#13
Quote by Blompcube
And les pauls and SGs sounding very similar? I beg to differ. I'm not saying i could tell the difference when i hear someone else playing one of each...


I don't think I could either - that's why I say there's not much of a difference. If it's not audible to the audience, I'd say it doesn't make much of a difference.
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#14
Quote by Even Bigger D
I don't think I could either - that's why I say there's not much of a difference. If it's not audible to the audience, I'd say it doesn't make much of a difference.

It may not make a difference to an audience on the same level that it does to a guitarist. i don't know if this is true for everyone else, but i play certain guitars differently to others, because the different sound inspires me to play something based on the sound, in a way, and i do a lot of improvisation.

I'm glad you mentioned country rock as that's where the "country" side of my playing came from which is probably why i use les pauls for it.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#15
how about one of the agile LP juniors? i love these things as far as looks go. never gotten to play an agile myself, but unless you order them who has really? its a risk, but man these things look good... and guaranteed versatility there!

http://www.rondomusic.com/product1055.html



EDIT: and i realize the draw to a junior is simplicity, so the dual pickups with 4 knobs and a switch might not be what you're looking for haha but i do love the double cut. they've got a single cut thats basically the same too i think.
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Last edited by LifeIsABullet16 at Jan 4, 2010,
#16
Quote by Lil Macker
Anyway, necrosis, haven't you already got a couple of Dillons guitars? Cause if I remember rightly you said they were really good. The only thing is, I'd be careful about buying them for the 'true' LP Jr tone, because the double cut's got an alder body, while the single cut has a mahogany body, and both have a maple neck. I mean, if you can afford the Gibson, and if you think it's worth it, I'd say go for it. They are really good to be honest, a bit of a hidden gem.


They are? I know from experience they usually build to vintage-spec, so I figured they'd be proper as well. Thank you for pointing that out though, I'd hate to get it and get a completely different tone from what I want.

For a double cut though, or even SG Jr shapes, you could have a look at some MIJ Tokais, but I'm not sure if you can get them in America. You want to try and avoid the MIC ones, cause they're made of agathis, which is a bit dull, and have the maple necks again. But again, they're harder to find, the MIA has about the same build quality (IMO) and you wanted a nitro finish, and you won't get one with these.


Hmm...well, the only slab-bodied, rosewood fingerboard, mahogany neck/body P-90 Tokai I found that I could get into the US was about $1,000 out of my pricerange;

http://cgi.ebay.com/TOKAI-Honjoras-Mahogany-LSS195-Nitro-Mint-with-OH-Case_W0QQitemZ270509385591QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar?hash=item3efb9da777

Plus that shipping pushes it even more, along with getting it through customs. That said though, that did remind me of one I read about in the Holiday 2009 issue of Guitar Player, the DiPinto Belvedere Jr.;

http://www.dipintoguitars.com/product.php?id=22

A nice matte finish, mahogany and rosewood, and the pickup is hot and sizzly at nearly 10k, in addition to being noiseless(Probably a good idea on a one-single-coil guitar!) The only problem that GP listed was the G string would catch on the nut, but I planned to replace that with a Graphite nut anyway, so not a big deal. I'm a bit wary of it's supposed quality at the price though, anyone have experience with them?

Quote by LifeIsABullet16
how about one of the agile LP juniors? i love these things as far as looks go. never gotten to play an agile myself, but unless you order them who has really? its a risk, but man these things look good... and guaranteed versatility there!

http://www.rondomusic.com/product1055.html



EDIT: and i realize the draw to a junior is simplicity, so the dual pickups with 4 knobs and a switch might not be what you're looking for haha but i do love the double cut. they've got a single cut thats basically the same too i think.


Hmm...well, they have a satisfaction guaranteed return policy, so I don't have much to lose...do they repay shipping costs or does the customer pay them?
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#17
Quote by Blompcube

I'm glad you mentioned country rock as that's where the "country" side of my playing came from which is probably why i use les pauls for it.


Yeah, country has certainly changed over time. Some of it sounds like 70/80's rock with rednecks now

For the traditional stuff you still need your tele, twin and orange squeezer (or maybe the newer Keeley) though.
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#18
Cutaways definitely affects tone in the same way that hollowing the body affects tone, there's less wood and the guitar is going to resonate differently. My dc sounds nothing like my lp and neither sound like my epi. I rotated the same pair of pickups through them at one point.
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