#1
Generally the Fender Twin is renowned for taking quite some time to break up, thus being a good cleantone amp. However the Bassman supposedly breaks up quite a bit earlier and the crunch was the basis for a lot of vintage rock tones, especially with the Marshalls that were based off the Bassman design.

But can I ask why this is? The Twin was a guitar amp the Bassman was intended to be a bass amp. Generally Bass is kept as clean as possible in blues/classic rock but guitar can get a bit dirty. Especially in the 50s/60s I can't think of many examples of overdriven Bass. Were bass pickups just lower output then or did they never crank the amps for some reason?
#3
Really? I remember hearing the opposite. I thought the Bassman was used for showing off pedals because it had a more flat frequency response(since Bass amps generally did, with guitar amps being mid-focused).

If the Bassman has almost no breakup why would Boss release a distortion pedal modelling it?
#4
Quote by Phat Stud 55
Actually you got them backward. The bassman is renowned for almost no amp breakup which is why a lot of people use the Fender Bassman as an amp to show the true tone of a effect pedal.


I thought it was the other way around...thats why bass players didn't like it and it became more of a guitar amp. It broke up TOO soon.
#5
I think there were very small differences between amps in general. They used the same schematic for everything, be it guitar, bass, keyboard or PA-systems, and then only made minor tweaks to them. Amps were just begining to evolve from something just meant for recreating the guitars tone louder, to the specialized things we have today.
#6
I'm nearly positive Phat Stud does have it backwards. At least the last Twin I played I put on 5 and it damn near well blew my ear drums and was as clean as clean gets. I've only played a bassman reissue and it was pretty dirty at that level.

Still can't answer your question.
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#8
Quote by GURREN LAGANN
Fender Twins have great overdrives when they breakup though. Real chimey clangy stuff.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeoWIOoWRxU

I can't imagine how loud that is.
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#9
You're thinking about two different style amps here.

When most people talk about the Bassman, they're talking about the tweed 4x10 Bassman, which is honestly closer in sound to a Marshall than a Fender. If you compare a tweed Bassman w/ a tweed Fender twin amp, you'll find that the twin isn't really any cleaner than the Bassman, but the Bassman does have more emphasis on low frequencies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIArmP6HcZk
Great Fender twin reverb overdriven sound...
#11
Fender Twins were mostly 85+ watts, so they break up later than the 50 watt Bassmans. Fender's answer to your question, however, is the ultralinear Bassmans that came out in the 70s... They are clean pretty much all the way.
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#12
Quote by Phat Stud 55
Actually you got them backward. The bassman is renowned for almost no amp breakup which is why a lot of people use the Fender Bassman as an amp to show the true tone of a effect pedal.

no, it's the other way around. please do your research before you post something. this is what causes confusion and gear myths.

TS, the Bassman amp was invented when bassists did not need to compete with loud rock drummmers/guitar players. after guitarists started using louder amps, bassists ditched the bassman amp for something louder.
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#14
muddy, saggy, think Jack Bruce's sound but darker, looser and more distorted.
#15
What a lot of people forget about early Marshalls is that Jim Marshall, while basing his design on the Bassman, had to use parts available to him in England. For example, instead of 4 10 inch Jensen speakers, Marshall used 4 12 inch Celestions in a closed back cabinet (adding to the fullness and aggressiveness of the sound). Also, Marshall had to use European EL34 power tubes, thus increasing the amp's potential to overdrive. While JTM45s/ Bluesbreakers were based on the Bassman, they aren't exactly the same.

Also, while the Bassman does break-up earlier, it (and early Marshalls) are still loud, clean amps.Ho wever, if you listen to guitar tones from the late 50s and early 60s, the guitar sound is pretty clean. Guitarists would turn their amps up loud enough to be heard and let it be. Therefore, bass players didn't need the 300 watt stacks because they weren't competing for volume or with overly aggressive drummers; players could get away with 15 watt guitar amps and 45 watt bass amps. If you pay attention to early (American) rock music, you'll notice a lot of people are actually playing acoustic upright basses.

Furthermore, you are thinking of tweed Bassmans (Bassmen?). Later incarnations were louder and cleaner.

I don't know if any of that helps, but its my $.02.
#16
Quote by colin617
What a lot of people forget about early Marshalls is that Jim Marshall, while basing his design on the Bassman, had to use parts available to him in England. For example, instead of 4 10 inch Jensen speakers, Marshall used 4 12 inch Celestions in a closed back cabinet (adding to the fullness and aggressiveness of the sound). Also, Marshall had to use European EL34 power tubes, thus increasing the amp's potential to overdrive. While JTM45s/ Bluesbreakers were based on the Bassman, they aren't exactly the same.

Also, while the Bassman does break-up earlier, it (and early Marshalls) are still loud, clean amps.Ho wever, if you listen to guitar tones from the late 50s and early 60s, the guitar sound is pretty clean. Guitarists would turn their amps up loud enough to be heard and let it be. Therefore, bass players didn't need the 300 watt stacks because they weren't competing for volume or with overly aggressive drummers; players could get away with 15 watt guitar amps and 45 watt bass amps. If you pay attention to early (American) rock music, you'll notice a lot of people are actually playing acoustic upright basses.

Furthermore, you are thinking of tweed Bassmans (Bassmen?). Later incarnations were louder and cleaner.

I don't know if any of that helps, but its my $.02.


Yes it does thanks
#17
Quote by colin617
What a lot of people forget about early Marshalls is that Jim Marshall, while basing his design on the Bassman, had to use parts available to him in England. For example, instead of 4 10 inch Jensen speakers, Marshall used 4 12 inch Celestions in a closed back cabinet (adding to the fullness and aggressiveness of the sound). Also, Marshall had to use European EL34 power tubes, thus increasing the amp's potential to overdrive. While JTM45s/ Bluesbreakers were based on the Bassman, they aren't exactly the same.
This is partially true, but the earliest of JTM45s were exact Bassman copies using 5881 tubes the only difference was the 4x12 of Celestion alnicos (as you pointed out), but otherwise, they were the exact same circuit wise, later incarnations changed a few cap and resistor values here and there in the bright channel making it brighter and also upped the filtering to make the sound slightly cleaner, brighter and stiffer compared to the Bassman and used KT66s.
#18
Bass amps are ALOT higher wattage than guitar amps, so they can crank them AND still stay clean. It's not uncommon at all to find a 500 watt bass amp head. Granted, it's usually solid state, with some having tube preamp, but that's still 500 watts.

The only all tube bass amps I know are the Ampeg SVT-VR Reissue, the Ampeg SVT-CL Classic, and the MarkBass Classic.
.

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#19
K, everything's probably been said already, but I'll still make my contribution.

The Bassman was introduced in 1952 as a partner to the Precision Bass guitar of the previous year. It originally only had a volume and tone control, and a single 15 inch speaker. Over the years, modifications were made to the design, and by 1958 it had reached the form which is most revered today: 4x10 inch Jensen speakers, 4 inputs, Bass, Middle, Treble and Presence controls. Because of its many inputs and high power, a lot of guitarists plugged into it as well as bassists (stages were smaller, sharing amps was not uncommon). Although advertised as "Will not break up or distort even at extremely loud volume", they actually became famous for their distortion.

Then, in the 60's, they started to evolve into more efficient bass amps with more clean volume before distortion. By the mid-to-late sixties, Bassmen sounded loud and clean, closer to what we'd expect from a bass amp today, but still suitable for guitar.

By 1977, the 70 and 135 watt versions had arrived, which were pretty much for bassists only. They became much more linear in their response, and had a more sterile, hi-fi leaning tone that for some reason suits bass but makes guitar sound boring. Since then, all new Bassmen, apart from reissues of the revered 5F6A design introduced in 1958, have been bass amps that not many guitarists would use.