#1
Say if I'm soloing using C major pentatonic, to get a relatively "sad" edge on it, should I switch to the relative, and hit up A minor pentatonic, or go to C minor pentatonic? Like, which one would make sense to do?
#3
Whatever you're soloing over would have to modulate to Am in order for you to do so as well.

Plus major=/=happy and minor=/=sad. It's all about phrasing and tone and what not. The saddest piece of music ever written could be in a major key if you wanted it to be.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#5
Hold on though, A min pent, C maj pent And C min pent have the same notes but different roots, so wouldn't it matter?

(Which scale I use)
Last edited by Lollage123 at Jan 5, 2010,
#6
Quote by Lollage123
Hold on though, A min pent, C maj pent And C min pent have the same notes but different roots, so wouldn't it matter?

(Which scale I use)
C major pentatonic and C minor pentatonic do NOT have the same notes. Am and C are relative keys, meaning they have the same notes, but a different tonic (they are distinct keys and are not interchangeable unless you're changing keys). C and Cm are parallel keys, meaning they have the same tonic, but different notes.

A lot of western music in major keys "borrows" notes from the parallel minor (such as in blues, you have a major key, but you can use the minor pentatonic to solo). The notes that are out of key are considered "blue notes," and fall into the category of accidentals (out of key notes).
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#7
Quote by food1010
C major pentatonic and C minor pentatonic do NOT have the same notes. Am and C are relative keys, meaning they have the same notes, but a different tonic (they are distinct keys and are not interchangeable unless you're changing keys). C and Cm are parallel keys, meaning they have the same tonic, but different notes.

A lot of western music in major keys "borrows" notes from the parallel minor (such as in blues, you have a major key, but you can use the minor pentatonic to solo). The notes that are out of key are considered "blue notes," and fall into the category of accidentals (out of key notes).

ah. Now I see whyits important to learn different scales for stuff like this.

What scale would be most appropriate? A harmonic minor like listed above?

Looks like I need to learn more than just the Major and Pentatonic scales
#8
Quote by Lollage123
ah. Now I see whyits important to learn different scales for stuff like this.

What scale would be most appropriate? A harmonic minor like listed above?

Looks like I need to learn more than just the Major and Pentatonic scales
Like I said in my first post, if what you are playing over is in C major, whether you're playing the A minor shape or the C major shape, it's going to be C major anyway.

So, your answer is C major because you have no choice.

If you changed the key to A minor, you could use any of the three minor scales.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#9
Would key changing involove revising the chord progression to fit with the new key I assume?

And you mean C major pentatonic? So you can't change to a minor scale without changing key?
Last edited by Lollage123 at Jan 5, 2010,
#10
Quote by Lollage123
Would key changing involove revising the chord progression to fit with the new key I assume?
Precisely.

Quote by Lollage123
And you mean C major pentatonic?
I do mean C major pentatonic, but C major pentatonic and A minor pentatonic are just the C major scale and the A natural minor scale (respectively) except they just avoid a few of the less melodic notes.

Quote by Lollage123
So you can't change to a minor scale without changing key?
Correct.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#11
Quote by food1010
Precisely.

I do mean C major pentatonic, but C major pentatonic and A minor pentatonic are just the C major scale and the A natural minor scale (respectively) except they just avoid a few of the less melodic notes.

Correct.

Okay thanks

But, sorry for being annoying but one more thing

If I was playing in C Major, couldn't I focus the note around A minor to make it sound sad without changing key? Or as I'm suspecting the backing track wotn agree with it right?
#12
Quote by Lollage123
But, sorry for being annoying but one more thing
It's all good, that's why I'm here.

Quote by Lollage123
If I was playing in C Major, couldn't I focus the note around A minor to make it sound sad without changing key? Or as I'm suspecting the backing track wotn agree with it right?
I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, but making a major key sad has virtually nothing to do with the minor scale. It's kind of hard to tell you how to make the major scale sad, but it's all about the intervals you focus on. What makes the minor scale inherently "sad" is, primarily, the minor third and it's less melodic resolution from certain notes, such as from the minor seventh to the tonic, the fourth to the minor third, and the second to the root (it is less harmonic because of the interference with the close-in-proximity minor third). The major scale has a major third (a more happy interval), and a half step resolution from the seventh to the tonic and from the fourth to the third, and the second will resolve to either the tonic or the third (both chord tones) just as well.

I would go into more detail, but I have to leave. Maybe I'll check back later and add some stuff.
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#13
Quote by Lollage123
Say if I'm soloing using C major pentatonic, to get a relatively "sad" edge on it, should I switch to the relative, and hit up A minor pentatonic, or go to C minor pentatonic? Like, which one would make sense to do?


You're looking to theory to solve an issue that has to do with personal expression. If you want to express sadness, the key would be to feel that emotion in the 1st place. You should then as an artist be able to subjectively choose the materials that allow you to express your idea.

Keep in mind that theory is generally used to analyze music.


Composing isn't simply a matter of opening you're theoretical recipe book to find the proper scale. it's more a matter of being familiar with the materials and developing the ability to use them to express your ideas. it takes time..... it takes experience.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jan 5, 2010,
#14
Quote by GuitarMunky
Keep in mind that theory is generally used to analyze music. Composing isn't simply a matter of opening you're theoretical recipe book to find the proper scale. it's more a matter of being familiar with the materials and developing the ability to use them to express your ideas. it takes time..... it takes experience.
+1. It all really boils down to that. You could know all the theory you could want and still make sub-standard music. As someone once said, become familiar with theory, and then forget it all and just play.

P.S. Does anyone know who said that and what the exact quote it is? Or is it just a saying that goes around with unknown origins?
Only play what you hear. If you don’t hear anything, don’t play anything.
-Chick Corea
#15
Quote by food1010
P.S. Does anyone know who said that and what the exact quote it is? Or is it just a saying that goes around with unknown origins?


I consider it less of a quote and more of a truth.
#16
Okay, but what I was trying to say was, if I was playing in C major scale, to get a sad sort of edge on it, couldn't I play more around the relative A note in the scale? Because I know from the A as the tonic in C major it is A minor. Could I do this, without having to change key, or chord progression or such?
#17
Quote by Lollage123
Okay, but what I was trying to say was, if I was playing in C major scale, to get a sad sort of edge on it, couldn't I play more around the relative A note in the scale? Because I know from the A as the tonic in C major it is A minor. Could I do this, without having to change key, or chord progression or such?


No, it doesn't work in that way.
If you emphasize A over the C chord you get C6..... a very Major chord.


Since your theory knowledge is lacking, your best bet is to listen (and actually it always is). If it sounds good.... it is good.


*btw, Im not suggesting that you stop studying theory. Keep at it, people study this stuff for years.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jan 5, 2010,
#18
How it is going to sound sad is if you have the attending background chords, reinforce the melody. this is more a compositional question, than it is a scale question. If your background is not sad as well, then the notes of that scale are going to have a hard time finding a suitable background.

Now, as for how to be able to construct the background of these ideas to solo over, your knowledge that would be required includes:

Ability to create any Natural Minor scale
Ability to create any Harmonic Minor scale
Ability to create any Melodic Minor scale
The ability to look at any of the three scales and know what chords can be derived from them
The ability to know how to effectively transition from a major key to a minor one using the compositional ability so that the music seems to take the "direction" that you are seeking to take it. That could be modulation ideas, pitch axis, or simply matching your change to the underlying harmony.

For example F to Fm might necessitate the use of the Ab note at the change. To understand why, a strong knowledge of chord construction and ability to recall that information in a playing situation is useful.

Note, the need to change key, is an optional one, but certainly having a minor chord in the background, and emphasizing that, is an option, so in C going to the Am and staying on it, maybe jumping to Em and taking the two in a Vamp back and forth would also allow the song to turn sadder, melody wise.
Last edited by Sean0913 at Jan 6, 2010,