#1
does the beginning of a scale have to begin with the root note? the reason i ask is because on www.all-guitar-chords.com i went to look at the c major scale patterns (3 notes per string) and they start with another note besides c?
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#2
*deleted for the sake of not confusing anybody*
Last edited by d1sturbed4eva at Jan 5, 2010,
#3
Melodically, of course not, but all that site is doing is giving you the position for all notes in a scale.
#4
alright. and by the major scale you mean just all that whole step half step stuff right?
"never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway"
#5
Quote by d1sturbed4eva
Yeah, they're called modes. Each made starts on a different note of that scale (7 altogether.)

I wouldn't worry about modes right now. Just get the Major scale down, I mean really good.

It's bad practice to put it like that, specially since the kid is confused already.

A major scale is, in western music, seven notes, divided in whole steps and half steps (from the third degree to the fourth, from the seventh to the first).
Last edited by CanCan at Jan 5, 2010,
#6
A common misconception with scale patterns. In a scale pattern, the root isn't always the note that you start on in the pattern. The beginning of a specific scale has to start and end on that note, otherwise it's a different scale or a mode. But don't worry about modes yet.

For example:

e-------------------------------------------5-7-(8)-----------------------------------------
b-----------------------------------5-6-8---------------------------------------------------
G-------------------------4-(5)-7-----------------------------------------------------------
D--------------------5-7--------------------------------------------------------------------
A------------5-7-8--------------------------------------------------------------------------
E--5-7-(8)----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A really common C Major scale pattern, but it starts on an A. So if you were to play this just like that, it would technically be an A Minor scale, because A Minor is the relative minor to C Major. I put parenthesis over all the C's, which are the major roots of the scale. For it to be a "true" C Major scale, you'd have to start on one of those roots, and end on one.

But let's say you're playing over a C Major chord progression such as C, F, G7, C. A I-IV-V7 chord progression, really common. All the notes in that scale would be fair game, and would sound good.

So, to answer your question, scale patterns don't have to start on the root note. They just show all of the notes of a specific scale in a specific place on the guitar for your convencience.
#7
alright cool thanks for all the help.
"never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway"
#8
Quote by d1sturbed4eva
Yeah, they're called modes. Each made starts on a different note of that scale (7 altogether.)

I wouldn't worry about modes right now. Just get the Major scale down, I mean really good.


Teeeeeechnically that's right, but that's a really bad way to put it.

I agree with learning the major scale really good though. Because once you know that, and you get more into theory, you'll realize that you can play any other diatonic scale from the major scale.
#9
You can start a scale from any note of that scale - you don't have to start on the root.

The Major scale is WWHWWWH (or in terms of intervals its root, maj 2nd, maj 3rd, perfect 4th, perfect 5th, maj 6th, maj 7th, octave). Apply that to a root note and you get 7 notes (eg C Maj = C D E F G A B) - and you can play the scale anywhere on the neck you can find those notes.
#10
Quote by neil287x
alright. and by the major scale you mean just all that whole step half step stuff right?


Yeah, that's right.

Major scale- WWhWWWh

If you started on the 6th note (WhWWhWW) that would be the minor scale.

Like I said, don't worry about it just yet. It makes everything way more confusing then it's supposed to be. Also the first note doesn't necessarily determine the scale. For example, you can start on the note D and still be playing in C major.
#11
alright thanks. and i've been practicing scales for a little while now. obviously there are many different shapes that can be built on the guitar. is there any specific one that i should focus on more? like the ones that scale all the way up the fretboard compared to the simple 7 note ones, or should all of them be practiced?
"never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway"
#12
Quote by neil287x
alright thanks. and i've been practicing scales for a little while now. obviously there are many different shapes that can be built on the guitar. is there any specific one that i should focus on more? like the ones that scale all the way up the fretboard compared to the simple 7 note ones, or should all of them be practiced?
All of them. Play your scales as many different ways as you can - single string, 2nps, 3nps, with the root on the A string as well as on the E string, on just the top two strings, forwards, backwards, in 3rds, 4ths, 6ths, and different sequences - and any other ways you can think of.

That way you'll be able to use your scales a lot more fluently improvising, so you can play whatever you want rather than feeling limited to box patterns.
#13
I second what zhilla said.

Shapes are okay for now but you eventually have to get out of the 'box.' What I mean by that you can play any note of that scale on any fret.

As for which you should to start with, whatever's eaiser. Some have stretches that can be difficult.
#14
Quote by d1sturbed4eva
Yeah, they're called modes. Each made starts on a different note of that scale (7 altogether.)

I wouldn't worry about modes right now. Just get the Major scale down, I mean really good.


No no. They're just different positions of the major scale starting on different notes. They are most certainly NOT modes unless their tonic is actually the note the new position starts on. Also, Root note =/= starting note. And as for the whole "shapes being a bad thing" thing, Even if you don't learn "box patterns" Once you realise the positions of where the notes are location over the fretboard and where you can play scales, certain shapes are naturally formed. If you learn lots of patterns for the scale then, you can eventually learn to connect and utilise them all over the fretboard.
Last edited by The_Toki at Jan 5, 2010,
#15
Quote by The_Toki
No no. They're just different positions of the major scale starting on different notes. They are most certainly NOT modes unless their tonic is actually the note the new position starts on. Also, Root note =/= starting note. And as for the whole "shapes being a bad thing" thing, Even if you don't learn "box patterns" Once you realise the positions of where the notes are location over the fretboard and where you can play scales, certain shapes are naturally formed. If you learn lots of patterns for the scale they, you can eventually learn to connect and utilise them all over the fretboard.


I wasn't aware I was implying that. Thanks for pointing that out.
Last edited by d1sturbed4eva at Jan 5, 2010,
#16
Bottom line - a pattern is not a scale.

A scale is a sequence of notes that follow a set pattern of intervals, so the C major scale is C D E F G A B. If you start from a C note and follow the WWHWWWH pattern you get those notes. That C note is the root and also the "tonal centre", it's not so much that it's the note you start from, but it's the note that the scale wants to return to. That pattern of intervals has been chosen so that no matter how you play around with those notes most of the time it's going to want to go back to that C note, that's called resolving.

The guitar is an odd instrument because notes can appear more than once, that means there's several ways to play the same scale, and if you map out all your options on the fretboard you get the scale pattern diagrams you've seen. They're all the same thing though, just different places those 7 notes of the scale appear. The scale is only part of the puzzle though when it comes to music - if you're playing a song then the chords you're playing over will often dictate what scale a certain set of notes will form.
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#17
Quote by neil287x
is there any specific one that i should focus on more? like the ones that scale all the way up the fretboard compared to the simple 7 note ones


The ones that "scale all the way up(or down) the fretboard" are just 7(sometimes more or less) note scales that are repeating themselves in higher/lower octaves.

Read the first part of Steven's post over and over until you get it.

All-Guitar-Chords.com is great for reference and figuring things out on your own. You need a little instruction though or you'll confuse what you're looking at.
#18
If you're writing the scale down to explain it to someone, yes, you would start with the root note. When actually playing though, order of notes does not matter.
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