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#1
My band mates and I were just messing around. We had a little heavy version of Old McDonald had a farm. My friend and I started to solo over it. The progression was (power chords):

G5 G5 G5 G5 C5 C5 G5 G5 D5 D5 D5 D5 G5 G5 G5 G5

I was just using the simple G minor pent., but I kept hearing bad notes here and there. Would their be a better pent to use?
#2
Em which is relative to G major

Gm is relative to Bb major which is definatly not the key youre looking for
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#4
Quote by SJPitrellifan
You could G major pentatonic.

which is exactly the same as Em but a different root note, i think Em sounds better
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#5
Quote by DKMfreak410
Em which is relative to G major

Gm is relative to Bb major which is definatly not the key youre looking for

But Gm has worked the best so far
#6
Quote by DKMfreak410
which is exactly the same as Em but a different root note, i think Em sounds better


True.

As far as Gm pentatonic goes, try emphasizing the shared notes of the major and minor pentatonic scales. Also, you can experiment with notes outside the scale to use as passing tones if you desire.
#7
Quote by SJPitrellifan
True.

As far as Gm pentatonic goes, try emphasizing the shared notes of the major and minor pentatonic scales. Also, you can experiment with notes outside the scale to use as passing tones if you desire.

Also I like the fact that Gm Pent has C which seems to fit great with this progression.
#8
Quote by adam561
Also I like the fact that Gm Pent has C which seems to fit great with this progression.


You could also use the G major scale or E natural minor scale as well.

Just experiment with the pentatonics, major and natural minor scales and you should find some good stuff.
#9
Quote by SJPitrellifan
You could also use the G major scale or E natural minor scale as well.

Just experiment with the pentatonics, major and natural minor scales and you should find some good stuff.

What is the first pentantonic scale that comes to your mind to use when you see the progression?
#10
Quote by adam561
What is the first pentantonic scale that comes to your mind to use when you see the progression?


Em or Gmaj, but Gm could work too.
#11
Quote by SJPitrellifan
Em or Gmaj, but Gm could work too.

The wide variety of scales you can use is because the progression consists of power chords correct? Because they lack the third interval I mean
#12
Your progression uses G5 C5 D5
I IV V in G major.

Use G Major pentatonic and you shouldn't go wrong. G A B D E G

Keep in mind the G Major pentatonic scale is just the G major scale with a few notes missing. So if you like the C you don't have to leave it out. If you like the C, throw that in there too. You could add the F♯ and do the full G major scale. Or you could use F natural instead and go G Mixolydian which will work.

What you have been using - the Gm pentatonic - will be G B♭ C D F G the notes you are using in your G5 C5 D5 progression are G D C G D A

So if you hit that B♭on the D5 you're likely to get a clash between the B♭ and the A in the D5.

Hope that helps.

Best of Luck.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Jan 6, 2010,
#13
There is nothing E minor about this progression.... Its in G. I dont remember the song being in a minor key so if you are looking for a solo sound similar to the original I would use the G major scale.
Quote by UtBDan
this man hits the nail on the head.
#14
Quote by blueriver
There is nothing E minor about this progression.... Its in G. I dont remember the song being in a minor key so if you are looking for a solo sound similar to the original I would use the G major scale.

It's not supposed to sound like the original, we had a soft intro like that. So Gm would work for guitar soloing over it?
#15
Yeah, Em probably wouldn't sound that great. It has the same notes as G major, but careful where you use them.

G major or G major pentatonic would work well, and you wouldn't hit "wrong" notes.
Last edited by SJPitrellifan at Jan 6, 2010,
#16
I don't see why G minor wouldn't work, especially considering the powerchords are neither major or minor.
Quote by UtBDan
this man hits the nail on the head.
#17
Quote by SJPitrellifan
Yeah, Em probably wouldn't sound that great. It has the same notes as G major, but careful where you use them.

G major or G major pentatonic would work well, and you wouldn't hit "wrong" notes.

EDIT: I failed

Why do you have to be careful?
Last edited by adam561 at Jan 6, 2010,
#18
The G5 C5 D5 has neither a major or minor quality. You could go Gm or GMaj pentatonics, or a mix of both without having to be too thoughtful. The quality will most likely be decided by the melodies.

If it works it works. Just keep playing around.

When you hit those bum notes pay attention to what note and what chord you were playing over and see if you can find another way to go over that chord.

Or just bang away on the bum note like it was on purpose.
Si
#19
Quote by adam561
EDIT: I failed

Why do you have to be careful?


Because depending on what notes you play, even though G major and E minor have the same notes, you can change the feel of the song, which is in a major key, if you emphasize the minor-sounding note patterns.
#20
Quote by adam561
EDIT: I failed

Why do you have to be careful?



Though the Em and GM have the same notes, their sound is a bit different, it being that the minor one has bit of a sad feel to it and the G major can be used for a better, happy mood which your song probably has.
#21
Quote by Heminator89
Though the Em and GM have the same notes, their sound is a bit different, it being that the minor one has bit of a sad feel to it and the G major can be used for a better, happy mood which your song probably has.

Dude, you're making me feel like a dumb ass, sorry if I came off like that hah

but I just know the notes of the scale through the whole fretboard and try to play random licks. How would I know if the lick is in GM or Em, look at intervals?
#22
Quote by adam561
Dude, you're making me feel like a dumb ass, sorry if I came off like that hah

but I just know the notes of the scale through the whole fretboard and try to play random licks. How would I know if the lick is in GM or Em, look at intervals?


It would be more effective to figure out the key of the song based on chords. I have a few stock licks that are pretty ambiguous as to major or minor, depending on what I play them over.
Quote by UtBDan
this man hits the nail on the head.
#23
Quote by blueriver
It would be more effective to figure out the key of the song based on chords. I have a few stock licks that are pretty ambiguous as to major or minor, depending on what I play them over.

This is what I mean: Take the progression from the original post. Not major or minor (power chords). I know the notes throughout the fretboard in GM and I just play random licks from that therefor I don't know if it's in GM or Em. How do I know?
#24
Quote by adam561
Dude, you're making me feel like a dumb ass, sorry if I came off like that hah

but I just know the notes of the scale through the whole fretboard and try to play random licks. How would I know if the lick is in GM or Em, look at intervals?


That, and you would also figure out how the lick resolves based on the chords.
#26
Quote by adam561
My band mates and I were just messing around. We had a little heavy version of Old McDonald had a farm. My friend and I started to solo over it. The progression was (power chords):

G5 G5 G5 G5 C5 C5 G5 G5 D5 D5 D5 D5 G5 G5 G5 G5

I was just using the simple G minor pent., but I kept hearing bad notes here and there. Would their be a better pent to use?

well the actual song has its melody in the major so if you have that in your head, trying to play it with the G minor pent will sound wrong. but your song here is pretty much a basic blues/rock progression and with that in mind, the Gminor pent works just fine over that. if you want to sound closer to the melody, play the major scale or pent over it.

Quote by DKMfreak410
which is exactly the same as Em but a different root note, i think Em sounds better

no. there is no Em in this progression. its not an Em progression at all. over this progresion he is either playing G major, or G minor. thats it.
#27
Any minor pentatonic scale is inappropriate over that progression. Nothing about it suggests Gm or "Blues in G." The song is strictly in G major. Use the G major pentatonic. Gm pentatonic is often used over major riffs in G, but such riffs have some hint of blues, usually the b7 tone. That progression does not contain any such reference.
#28
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Any minor pentatonic scale is inappropriate over that progression. Nothing about it suggests Gm or "Blues in G." The song is strictly in G major. Use the G major pentatonic. Gm pentatonic is often used over major riffs in G, but such riffs have some hint of blues, usually the b7 tone. That progression does not contain any such reference.

are you kidding? that progression is pretty much the same as jonny b goode and the house is rockin' which are both pretty sraight blues/rock n roll songs. minor pentatonic will work fine.
#29
Thank you. Now we have to explain to this gentleman why blues soloists use minor scales over major progressions. (I don't know why people struggle with this idea, but everyone - including me - struggles with it.)

TS: The original song is not at all in a minor key, so anything but the G major or G major pentatonic scales will be inappropriate. Thus, you won't be able to recreate the melody from the Gm pentatonic scale. You may think that you can use the Em pentatonic, since it's G's remative minor, but that isn't how relative minors work; you simply can't play Em over G.

I have an idea in my head, though. Wail through the song at high speed with a lot of distortion. When it comes time to solo, use the Gm pentatonic rather than G major.

I'll elaborate if asked.
#30
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Thank you. Now we have to explain to this gentleman why blues soloists use minor scales over major progressions. (I don't know why people struggle with this idea, but everyone - including me - struggles with it.)

are you talking about me, or the TS? because i know why we do it. i dont even think you really NEED to know WHY, you just need to know that it creates a "bluesy" sound or a rock sound. and seeing as none of those chords are major or minor, that progression could easily be a minor blues type progression. i really dont see why minor pent wouldnt work here. im just talking about the progression alone. i know the actual song is a major key song. but if he wanted to solo over it either major or minor pent could work well over it.

TS: The original song is not at all in a minor key, so anything but the G major or G major pentatonic scales will be inappropriate. Thus, you won't be able to recreate the melody from the Gm pentatonic scale. You may think that you can use the Em pentatonic, since it's G's remative minor, but that isn't how relative minors work; you simply can't play Em over G.

I have an idea in my head, though. Wail through the song at high speed with a lot of distortion. When it comes time to solo, use the Gm pentatonic rather than G major.

I'll elaborate if asked.

thats kinda what i was getting at. im thinking for solos the minor pent might sound a bit better with more attitude. for melody stuff, use the major seeing as the song is in a major key.
#31
Quote by adam561
Is the pentatonic formula for the notes; i II III IV V ?


No. The minor pentatonic is 1 ♭3 4 5 ♭7 and the major pentatonic is 1 2 3 5 6. The roman numerals would represent chords, and the pentatonic scales aren't used for chords.

Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
thats kinda what i was getting at. im thinking for solos the minor pent might sound a bit better with more attitude. for melody stuff, use the major seeing as the song is in a major key.


But the solo is the melody...
#32
Quote by isaac_bandits
No. The minor pentatonic is 1 ♭3 4 5 ♭7 and the major pentatonic is 1 2 3 5 6. The roman numerals would represent chords, and the pentatonic scales aren't used for chords.


But the solo is the melody...

oh.....well then yeah use major scale/pent lol. i was thinking more like improvising a solo and jamming out.
#33
Quote by isaac_bandits
But the solo is the melody...
I meant the "jam-out" solo. (In my head, this sounds like a Vai tune. I don't know why.)

And no, Blind in 1 Ear, you were not the gentleman I referenced in my post; that would be the TS.
#34
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Any minor pentatonic scale is inappropriate over that progression. Nothing about it suggests Gm or "Blues in G." The song is strictly in G major. Use the G major pentatonic. Gm pentatonic is often used over major riffs in G, but such riffs have some hint of blues, usually the b7 tone. That progression does not contain any such reference.


WAIT a minute there Sue.

Let me check the progression again
Quote by adam561
The progression was (power chords):

G5 G5 G5 G5 C5 C5 G5 G5 D5 D5 D5 D5 G5 G5 G5 G5


What makes it strictly major? One could also use Gm and give it a minor feel. There is nothing there that is pulling it one way or the other. The chords in that progression are neither major nor minor and are composed strictly out of four notes...
G A C D

We could fill it out with minor or major qualities, or Mixolydian, or some blues scale.

Now I can accept that without any melodic properties one might hear it as a major progression but that would depend on how you play it. That major feel can also be changed with some well placed melodic phrases to give it a bluesy feel or even a minor feel.

It is strictly G something.

Em doesn't work because if you play the notes from Em you will simply hear those notes in relation to the G tonic established by the progression and so if you did play Em you would simply be playing G major.

But the progression does not exclude Gm as a viable option.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Jan 7, 2010,
#35
G major pentatonic
G minor pentatonic
G major
G natural minor

These seem to be the best choices for this progression.
#38
Quote by 20Tigers
What makes it strictly major?
Nothing makes it strictly major. I use the G5 C5 G5 C5 (or D5 G5 D5 G5) progression in minor contexts quite a lot. I made that comment to try to avoid a likely useless discussion about why blues soloists use minor scales over major progressions. This seems to be a topic most people struggle to understand and I think it's better to establish ideas about the major scale before throwing people into confusing ideas about mixing minor scales with major progressions. ("Wait...I can't play Em over the G progression, even though it contains the same notes as G major, but you want me to play a G minor scale over it, a scale that contains several notes not in the key of G?")
#39
Right but it's not necessarily one or the other so you could view it as a G major progression or you could view it as a G minor progression. So suggesting that G minor would work isn't quite suggesting he play a G minor over a G major progression, it would be acknowledging this particular progression (being all powerchords) is somewhat ambiguous and flexible. He could give it either flavour.

The Em thing mentioned before is just silliness.
Si
#40
Quote by SJPitrellifan
Because depending on what notes you play, even though G major and E minor have the same notes, you can change the feel of the song, which is in a major key, if you emphasize the minor-sounding note patterns.

No, you can't...not without changing the chords first.
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