#1
OK, so my birthday's coming around, and I'm looking for upgrades to my LP standard.
Namely, pickups. I play nearly anything on this guitar, but mostly metal. The bridge pickup should be tight, and fairly ballsy. It needs to be CLEAR. I cannot stand muddy pickups. The neck pickup needs to be clear, but somewhat smooth, and suited for a reasonable amount of "shredding". Not an Evo, preferably. I'm way too sloppy of a player for Evo's.

I use a Peavey Vypyr 75. Yes, I know, tube amps are better, yadda yadda... I don't care. I like my amp, and the tone it puts out... that is, when the guitar's pickups aren't muddy as **** all and duller than a neanderthal.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#4
I've heard that a lot of metal musicians prefer solid state amps... i don't really know though. The only tube amp I've played on was a blues amp, so it didn't have a heavy distortion tube. I'd like to try a hard rock/metal oriented tube amp.
#7
Dislike the JB, Don't want a '59 for this guitar (I have one already, I'll transplant it), pass on the EMGs, Bareknuckles are too expensive.

So... Dimarzios. What should I look for in a set of Dimarzios?
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#8
Quote by yngwie_jnr666
emg 81 for bridge and 85 for neck


as much as i like my EMGs, i must say that they are not the best pickups out there for TS. And Actives into an SS amp isnt always the best thing. Plus, the 81+85 arent great clean
#9
Quote by espplayer400
as much as i like my EMGs, i must say that they are not the best pickups out there for TS. And Actives into an SS amp isnt always the best thing. Plus, the 81+85 arent great clean

badda bing. If I was getting EMG's, I'd be getting the 81/60 combo. But, they're a bit over budget.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#10
Alright, in the DiMarzio zone:

Grab yourself a Steve's Special and an Air Norton, sexy combination.

Steve's Special is VERY clear, no mud to be had, and the Air Norton sounds exactly like what you described. D-sonic is great as well, definitely ballsy, very tight bass.
#11
I was considering the D-sonic.

Would the PAF Pro work OK for the neck?
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#12
PAF pro would probably work. It's heavy on the presence, so bear that in mind. Very cutting pickup.

I'm liking my D-sonic, and I recorded both of the clips in my profile with it, so check it out for a little demo. Changing the direction of the rail makes a huge difference though, so decide what you wanna do with it before you put it in. DiMarzio gives an in depth description on the site.
#13
I'm liking that tone. Which way do you have the rail?
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#14
Quote by mcjosh
Seymour Duncan JB-4 in the bridge and 59 in neck?
A JB is almost as inappropriate in an LP as active pickups are through a solid state amp!

Oh wait...

Quote by yngwie_jnr666
emg 81 for bridge and 85 for neck
... Yeah. Don't do this. Ever.



Right, OP. First thing I want you to clarify is if we're talking about a Gibson LP Standard or an Epi LP Standard. This is rather important as they can sound very different.

Beyond that though, a few pointers to start you off with. Firstly, you have a solid state amp, so don't worry about high output. In fact, the lower output the better. It will be clearer, more responsive, more articulate and mesh with your amp much better. All high output will do is muddy up your tone.
Secondly, getting a clear-yet-metal tone on an SS amp is hard - very hard. In terms of 'proper use', SS amps excel at two things; ultra-clean jazz tones and stupidly fuzzy wall-of-noise 'crushing overdrive' metalhead tones. Clear and distorted is hard to come by on an SS amp no matter what pickups or guitar you use. Bear this in mind and set your expectations accordingly. If you do find you're not getting the tone you want and you insist on having a tone which is suitable for metal yet clear, you're going to have to swallow your pride, bite the bullet and buy a valve amp.

With those two things in mind, you should be aiming for a low output neck pickup and nothing above medium output for the bridge; you should look for pickups with the highest resonant peak, to get the best definition and response when playing with more gain (especially with shred style playing). An under-wound ceramic-based pikcup would be best for you but these are very, very rare. You could make your own by getting an under-wound Alnico-based pickup and replacing the magnet yourself, but this can be tricky if you don't know what you're doing and results are not guaranteed.

To kick-start you, an SD Alnico II Pro in the neck and a Jazz in the bridge would be my starting points for you. A Pearly Gates in either or both positions could work out well for you too. If you know how to set up your EQ properly and if your technique is anywhere near halfway decent, these are the sorts of pickups that are going to respond best for you. But you do have such a specifica, odd rig and request that I can't stress it enough; no matter what pickups you use, you may not get the tone you want with an SS amp and/or it's goign to rely heavily on you know exactly what you're doing, setting everything up perfectly and using a very refined playing style. There's no such thing as a pickup you can just slap in, sloppily sweap pick on and suddenly sound like a practised-for-decades shred god. SS amps can sound very articulate, which is great if you're a great player and have your rig set right, but if you're a bad player or if you don't know how to arrange your rig properly, all the solid state clarity will do is show up all of your mistakes.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
Last edited by MrFlibble at Jan 6, 2010,
#15
Quote by oneblackened
I'm liking that tone. Which way do you have the rail?


I've got the rail away from the bridge, or towards the neck.

I find I like it more this way because the rail is higher output than the other coil, and the closer it is to the bridge, the more it hypes the treble frequencies. I likes me a smoother tone.

Now, if I downtuned any lower than C#, I would almost certainly point it the other way for a bit more attack and prescence, and tighter bass.
#16
Meh, Flibble, I like high output pickups. I like their tone. It's an Epi LP standard - the pickups are god-awful.

Also, contrary to popular belief, it is in fact possible to get clear metal distortion out of an SS amp.

And I just don't have the budget for a valve/tube/whatever amp.

Tbh, I know pickups don't change playing. I just hate the sound of them. I'm not as nooby about this stuff as a lot of people on this site are. I do my research thoroughly.

I'm running right into the amp, no pedals - it's completely dry.

Yeah, the D-sonic is probably what I'll go for.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
Last edited by oneblackened at Jan 6, 2010,
#18
i don't want to throw a wrench in the gears here, but in all honesty, the only dimarzio that i've ever had any success with was the 36th anniversary paf in the neck.
#19
Quote by oneblackened
Meh, Flibble, I like high output pickups. I like their tone.
Do not confuse output as having anything to do with tone.
Think of it like colour: you have hue (red, blue, green and every colour in-between) and then you have brightness (black, white and every shade of grey in-between). How bright a colour is has next to nothing to do with the hue. Red doesn't have to be bright, blue doesn't have to be dark.
Output, in relation to tone, is the same. The balance of bass, middle and treble frequencies has nothing to do with output. The compression and/or smoothness of a pickup has nothing to do with output. Clarity has very little to do with output other than when you use higher output you naturally lose some clarity.
What you like about high-output pickups is probably the sort of tone they commonly share; some compression with a slight increase in bass and treble response compared to the mid frequency response. Now, there's nothing wrong with that, but you don't need to use high output pickups to get it. One pickup mod I came across previously was an SD Pearly Gates with the Alnico II magnet swapped out for a ceramic bar. This increased the natural compression of the pickup and exaggerated the bass while the output still stayed at fairly medium levels. The SD range of 'Custom' pickups is a great example to look into to explain this; there is the ceramic-based Custom, the Alnico V-based Custom 5 and the Alnico II-based Custom Custom. The Custom has the most compressed and naturally ''scooped'' tone while the Custom Custom has the smoothest, most even response, with the Custom 5 hanging in-between. All three have virtually the same output and are wound the same, just the magnets are different. It goes to show how little output has to do with the tone; the Custom and Custom Custom have modern and traditional tones respectively and sound very different while still being the same output.

There is only really one use for high output pickups, which is to drive a valve amp harder. In the case of solid state amps, there's just no point; the amplifier simply doesn't work in the same way, the signal isn't clipped in the same way. By using a high output pickup with a solid state amp, at best all you're doing is reducing your minimum volume, more likely you'll be greatly exaggerating background noise and losing clarity.

Also, contrary to popular belief, it is in fact possible to get clear metal distortion out of an SS amp.
That would hold up if I went on popular belief, but I don't (if I did, I wouldn't have any of the gear I have). I go on what I've tried, what professionals I've talked to have taught me and what I've heard in person. I've got thirty grands worth of hi-fi equipment behind me, I know tone. There is a reason why the only regular professional use SS amps get is as ultra-clear jazz amps. Now, I'm not saying SS amps are instantly bad - they're not, I respect that they have their uses. I'm also not saying that SS amps can't be clear or do metal tones, because they can. The key word there though is or. They can't be clear and do metal tones at the same time, unless your definition of 'clear' is 'not very clear' or your definition of 'metal distortion' is 'not very distorted'. Many people often get brightness confused with clarity, especially with solid state amps; a solid state amp can certainly do bright and metal, but clear and metal? No. The technology simply does not work that way. It's like claiming an early 60's American muscle car is fine for rally driving in thick snow and mud.

I respect that not everyone can afford to buy or justify a huge professional fullstack or whatever, but claiming you can pull out a sound from an amp that the technology isn't built for and can't do isn't going to get you far. Part of knowing how to get the best sound from your rig is knowing and respecting it's limitations.



Now, you say your LP is an Epi. This is where I'd really advise against a pickup swap. It's going to be throwing money away. The Epi's stock pickups aren't actually that bad - they're made directly after the Gibson '57 Classic pickups, which are very clear and responsive pickups. The problem is the Epi construction, especially it's thick poly finish, muffles the tone. Combine this with the solid state compression and yes, you are going to get a very muddy tone when used with much gain. Take it from me, I played an Epi LP through a solid state amp for years (in fact, my Epi has Gibson BurstBuckers pickups which are even clearer and my amp was a Fender which was even brighter than yours - and it still produced a muddy mess). A pickup swap isn't going to solve that. Pickups are for tweaking the hue of your sound, they don't provide a big difference unless you go through an extreme change (e.g. Fender style singlecoils to P-90s, passive to active pickups, etc), and through a solid state amp the change is even more subtle. If you want to get rid of the muddy Epi LP + SS amp tone then the answer's pretty straight forward; one of the two has to go. I know that's not what you want to hear but it's the plain truth of the matter. If I were to advise you to buy new pickups at this point I'd be doing you and everyone else a disservice as you'd be wasting your money on something that will at best make no difference and at worst bugger your rig up royally. I know everyone wants a nice easy and cheap answer to their questions but sometimes you have to accept that that's not going to solve your problems. You changing pickups to reduce the muddiness and increase the definition in your tone would be like trying to make a badly cooked meal taste better by changing what plate you put it on.

Now, I know what's going to happen next. You're going to think "what a load of bollocks, I know best, I'm going to go ahead and change pickups". I know this because it happens every time. And every time, the person regrets throwing their money away. But, I'm not going to stop you. There's the infomation; you have everything you need to know to make a smart, well-informed decision. What you do is up to you, but if you do make a bad choice, on your head be it.





Quote by al112987
i don't want to throw a wrench in the gears here, but in all honesty, the only dimarzio that i've ever had any success with was the 36th anniversary paf in the neck.
Huh. Only DiMarzio I've ever found to be remotely any good was the PAF Pro. Even that wasn't anything special. I don't get what the fuss about them is, Seymour Duncan have at least a wider selection and any boutique or bespoke pickup manfacturer is going to be leagues ahead of either.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
Last edited by MrFlibble at Jan 7, 2010,
#21
Flibble: Holy Wall of text batman.

I'll attempt to respond.
I'm going from a PAF copy to a quite high output pickup. Alnico to Ceramic. A whole different ****ing polepiece type. Yes, I think I'll notice a difference.

Second, My other guitar (with a Duncan Distortion) sounds MUCH better through my Vypyr than my LP with its stock pickups.

I'll say it once, and I'll say it again: Just because YOU had a bad experience with an SS amp (Lemme guess, Frontman, right? Yes, those are unbelievably crap) doesn't mean everyone has.
Also, you're saying that finish matters more than the thing that transfers the signal to to the amp. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#23
No JB, I dislike it.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#24
Quote by enselmis
Alright, in the DiMarzio zone:

Grab yourself a Steve's Special and an Air Norton, sexy combination.

Steve's Special is VERY clear, no mud to be had, and the Air Norton sounds exactly like what you described. D-sonic is great as well, definitely ballsy, very tight bass.


^^^ What he said, I have this combination in my Ibanez. Great tone.
Or another option for the bridge, consider the DiMarzio Super Distortion. Great sounding pickup for mahogany-bodied guitars.

.........................................

My stuff:
Gibson Les Paul special w/ humbuckers
Gibson Flying V
Ibanez RG550 1992
Epiphone Wildkat
ESP LTD EC50
Marshall AVT150H
Marshall 1960A reissue
Fender Pro185
Annoyed wife who thinks I had too much stuff
#25
Quote by oneblackened

I'll attempt to respond.
I'm going from a PAF copy to a quite high output pickup. Alnico to Ceramic. A whole different ****ing polepiece type. Yes, I think I'll notice a difference.
I didn't say you won't notice 'a' difference. I said you won't notice much
difference and many people - myself included, obviously - would call that a waste of money.
Also, congratulations. The '57 Classic isn't a PAF copy (it's actually about as middle of the road as you can get - and for the record, the Epi version is higher output) and humbuckers don't use magnetic pole pieces. Well, two models do - the Swineshead AMP and the SD Stag Mag - but those most certainly do not sound anywhere close to regular humbuckers (I know - I use 'em myself) and are far from common.

Either way, you've completely failed to grasp the concept of how output relates to tone (i.e. that it doesn't). Once again; output has effectively nothing to do with tone and response. Higher output simply produces more volume and hits the front end of the amp harder, which is literally pointless (down to an actual phsyical level) with solid state amps and even in valve amps does little to effect the tone itself. All output can do is change the volume of the signal before it hits the pre-amp. Output can not increase or descrease response to bass, middle or treble frequencies. The laws of the physics of sound do not work that way. You really can't argue with this further because we're onto the level of gravity and light rays here. You might as well try to argue that oxygen doesn't exist.

[quote[I'll say it once, and I'll say it again: Just because YOU had a bad experience with an SS amp [] doesn't mean everyone has.

(Lemme guess, Frontman, right? Yes, those are unbelievably crap)
Nah, it was the non-discontinued B... something. I forget. It started with a B. Well, then I moved on to a Fender SUper Champ XD, then a Roland something-or-other. Those are the ones I've owned myself anyway.
However, assumption is the mother of all ****-ups and you just made a big one. Why assume I've never played a Vyper myself? Because, to put it simply, I have. I've also used many higher quality small solid state amps like Tech 21s and Fender Jazz Kings. I've yet to come across a good quality solid state head (by that I mean I've literally never found a shop that stocks any, not that I don't believe they exist or anything because I know they do), but you can be sure should I ever find one sitting somewhere, I'll be giving it a go. I've played everything from modern budget SS practise amps and 'metal' SS halfstacks to 60's SS blues combos. I give everything a fair go. I think this might be a good time to point out that I've made my own solid state pre-amp with a valve power amp section for my record player. I know how these things work. I know the limitations of the technology. I've heard plenty of good tones from SS amps, just as I've heard plenty of bad ones.

Also, you're saying that finish matters more than the thing that transfers the signal to to the amp. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense
It might not make sense to you but it's the simple truth. A thick poly finish deadens the tone of the guitar like nothing else. To put this into perspective, I have a Gibson and an Epi LP. Spec-wise they're exactly the same except the Epi's electronics are brighter (500k pots instead of 300k), the Gibson's neck is slightly thicker and of course the Gibson has a nitro finish and the Epi has a very thick poly finish. Yes, they do have the same pickups, for the record. If finish didn't matter, your logic would dictate the Epi would sound brighter and resonate equally. It doesn't, not by a long way. Any resonance it does has is killed off in half a second and it's nowhere near as clear or bright. Now of course things like the quality of the body and neck woods also factors into this, but in terms of deadening the natural vibrations, there's only one thing that matters and that's the finish.
If you want a direct test for yourself, play a bass guitar (resonance is more obvious on bass guitars) with an unfinished neck (or a very thin nitro finish) vs one with a poly finish on the neck. Notice how behind the neck, your hand can't feel any of the vibrations from the strings ont he poly-finished guitar after a second or so; with the unfinished neck though, you'll be able to feel the vibration for as long as the string is ringing.
Having a thick coat of plastic over the wood deadens the vibrations and resonance. It's that simple. Again, we're into the relm of basic physics here. If you really want to start arguing about the laws of physics then we can but even to you it should be obvious you're onto a losing battle with that one.



Now, if you want to keep a stick up your arse about SS amps doing things which they actually technically can't then go ahead, be my guest. But being so willfully ignorant only hurts yourself (especially your bank balance) and spreads misinfomation. Yes, it's nice to think you're right and "fighting for the little guy by sticking up for those poor besmirched solid state amps", but the fact of the matter is you've got someone here, someone who is evidently more experienced in the field than you are, informing you of the correct nature of the technology and arguing against it does nothing but make you look like you're blindly raging for the sake of it and potentially leads other people to believe incorrect infomation.

If you want to use solid state amps, that's fine; that's not what my point is about. But publically claiming that the technology can do things which it literally can not physically do, that I have a problem with. There are already far too many people on here who repeat mis-understood or simply plain incorrect infomation as if they're hard fact, which proceeds to then spread further. You end up with people chucking their money away and then complaining when things don't work out how they wanted (see: everyone who is tricked into buying some crappy modelling amp by the guys in the store then comes on here to ask why they can't get the tones they want). Leave it out. Use whatever gear you want, but you can't say you've not been given a decent warning and you've no grounds to imply to the unknowing that your way is the saint's way.



Quote by Jackamedmos
SD JB in the bridge and 59 in the neck.
i have em in my guitar they're awesome.
You have them because they're stock. Change that JB for a Custom 5 and you'll find an improvement no matter what your style of play is. I don't know what ESP insist on using the JB still given that all their professional players who use passive pickups use the Custom 5, Custom, Jazz or Pearly gates models in the bridge instead. As it is I believe Emppu Vuorinen's signature ESP has a Custom as stock but that's it. It really blows my mind why they haven't made the change on their other models too.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
Last edited by MrFlibble at Jan 7, 2010,
#27
I like Flibble. We're like cavemen compared to him.

And when he said "$30,000 worth of equipment behind me," for whatever reason I imagined a WALL of Marshall's and a few Gibson Les Pauls... interesting.

I have no input that Flibble hasn't already said, except, pickups are interchangeable. That said, if you don't like one after so long, replace it with something else. So it's not that big of a deal... though I'm not sure if there's any relation with that to this thread so...

/postfail.
#28
I'm not even going to bother arguing with you flibble. How about we agree to disagree? We're derailing the thread.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#29
I'd like to say a few things. First Mr.Fibble wins the thread, I don't know as much as him about the technology, but I can say a few things from a learning experience.

Pickups fine tune your sound, they don't drastically change it. They take what you have, and tweak it. Whether that tweaking would be more output, clearer, more bass response, it tweaks it. It dosen't make it good or bad, it depends on what your looking for. Its really important to know what your looking to change about your sound when looking for a pickup. If you don't then everyone will just recommend what they like.

Now onto needing a tube amp. Tube amps react differently than solid state amps do. Thats why people generally say get a tube amp, you'll notice more of a difference. This is really only true in a sence. It is more noticeable on tube amps but its still almost as much noticeable on a SS amp.

Most people who think they need new pickups usually still have a fender frontman 15 or an mg. They usually want a better metal tone or something. That can't be done unless you get a new amp, those amps won't get you a good tone with just a simple pickup change. Then we'd all have our started amps with emgs. We say get a new amp not because you'll notice a difference more, but because your amp you have now isn't capable of getting what your looking for. So instead of wasting money on pickups to slighty change your sound, get a new amp to drastically change your sound closer to the tone in your head. Once you get there. and you think, gee this pickup is awful trebly, then swap out a pickup.

Mr.Fibble gave you a very good explanation of how SS amps can't do clear and metal. They can do harsh sounding distortion thats good for certain genres, but if your looking for a clear defined metal tone, look elsewhere.

As he said, you may not want to hear it, but your amp isn't capable of that. I have a 15 watt vypyr. I find it does metal, but it usually sounds rather muddy. I have 4 different guitars. I swap pickups very often testing them out and seeing how they sound to my ears. The vypyr still sounds dark and muddy often. However I can get some nice clear classic rock tones from it

But if you really insist on changing pickups, I'm gonna suggest something with medium output like a duncan 59 or a pearly gates. I don't think they make the jazz in the bridge, so jazz for the neck, or a pearly gates in the bridge and a 59 in the neck. I didn't like the jazz in the neck for metal leads.
Agile AL3000
Douglas WRL90
SX SR1 STD Plus
J&D Strat
Squier Tele
Sammick TR2
Douglas Draco
Peavey JSX
Bugera V5
TWANGED VJ
#30
Quote by MrFlibble
I didn't say you won't notice 'a' difference. I said you won't notice much
difference and many people - myself included, obviously - would call that a waste of money.
Also, congratulations. The '57 Classic isn't a PAF copy (it's actually about as middle of the road as you can get - and for the record, the Epi version is higher output) and humbuckers don't use magnetic pole pieces. Well, two models do - the Swineshead AMP and the SD Stag Mag - but those most certainly do not sound anywhere close to regular humbuckers (I know - I use 'em myself) and are far from common.

Either way, you've completely failed to grasp the concept of how output relates to tone (i.e. that it doesn't). Once again; output has effectively nothing to do with tone and response. Higher output simply produces more volume and hits the front end of the amp harder, which is literally pointless (down to an actual phsyical level) with solid state amps and even in valve amps does little to effect the tone itself. All output can do is change the volume of the signal before it hits the pre-amp. Output can not increase or descrease response to bass, middle or treble frequencies. The laws of the physics of sound do not work that way. You really can't argue with this further because we're onto the level of gravity and light rays here. You might as well try to argue that oxygen doesn't exist.
Ah... this is not really quite true. A '57 Classic is a PAF copy. I don't think it's that important as I don't think Epiphones come with '57 Classics, but the Gibson version is a PAF copy. A2 mag, PE wire, in the general PAF range resistance-wise...

And the second part is just completely wrong. Output DOES affect tone. Maybe on the most simplified level taking one signal and amplifying it to a higher output does not, but that isn't how a guitar pickup works, and in the context of a guitar circuit, then yes output DOES affect the sound of the pickup. The sound AND output of a guitar pickup is made up of several factors, all of which contribute to output. Please don't say things like "the laws of physics do not work that way" if you don't actually know how the physics work. You either know much more about physics than I do (because I certainly cannot see a physical explanation for what you're saying), or you've completely oversimplified a much more complicated concept. I mean if you simply mean that output, and literally output in the sense of the size of a signal does not affect tone, then maybe you're correct, I don't know, I'm not an audio engineer, but it's not applicable to a tone discussion, technically "output" as far as the size of a signal coming out of a tube amp doesn't "affect" tone either, but we all know that a cranked tube amp sounds different from one running at a low volume because of things that affect the tube amp output. Same case with a pickup.

Now I don't want to get into a physics argument (it's not really a physics argument not that any of this is really physics as much as is it is practical knowledge), but there are things that should at least be mentioned so that people like this...

Quote by r0ckth3d34n
I like Flibble. We're like cavemen compared to him.
Don't run off thinking that output has no affect on tone.
Last edited by al112987 at Jan 8, 2010,
#31
Mr Fibble is one of them newfangled super trolls, I think.

You know? Those ones that abuse the common man with unverifiable information that we just assume is right because of the sheer quantity.

Grab a pair of DiMarzio's and see how they sound, you can always send em back and get new ones, as per DiMarzios pickup exchanger thingumma.
#32
Quote by enselmis
Mr Fibble is one of them newfangled super trolls, I think.

You know? Those ones that abuse the common man with unverifiable information that we just assume is right because of the sheer quantity.
Grab a pair of DiMarzio's and see how they sound, you can always send em back and get new ones, as per DiMarzios pickup exchanger thingumma.

Oh HELL yes.
Yeah, I'm thinking D-Sonic/PAF Pro.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#33
Quote by oneblackened
Oh HELL yes.
Yeah, I'm thinking D-Sonic/PAF Pro.


Good call bud, tell us how you like em when they get here.

Don't have much experience with the PAF Pro, but DiMarzio's of all types are pretty solid, so it'll probably be great.