#1
No matter what I try to do, the information just doesn't stick in my head.. I'm trying to do just one string, and what I'm mainly doing is just saying the notes all the way to the octave, repeating them backward, then just memorizing the notes on the fretmarkers. I'm not sure if what I'm doing is right though.. Any tips on how to get this done faster?


Also, I'm trying to dedicate myself more and what I'm doing right now is just refining my technique (can't learn songs because my ear is bad and I don't wanna use the cheap way and play TABS). Should I just memorize and play scales and then add bends, hammer-ons and pull-offs?

And last but not least, how do I go about ear training? There's a website I know with an ear trainer, but it just seems so weird to me seeing as the notes aren't played in order and I'm a total newbie.. The concept of intervals is just really hard to grasp on guitar.. I know I should be counting half-steps, but for example, on Youtube there's videos on guitar, but most of them say things like "that's a minor 3rd down" how exactly do they know what note that is that quickly? It just doesn't make sense. How do you know which notes are minor, major, augmented, or diminished?


Thanks in advance. I'm beat. I'll read the responses when I get the time.
#2
Quote by Cflobucket
No matter what I try to do, the information just doesn't stick in my head.. I'm trying to do just one string, and what I'm mainly doing is just saying the notes all the way to the octave, repeating them backward, then just memorizing the notes on the fretmarkers. I'm not sure if what I'm doing is right though.. Any tips on how to get this done faster?


Also, I'm trying to dedicate myself more and what I'm doing right now is just refining my technique (can't learn songs because my ear is bad and I don't wanna use the cheap way and play TABS). Should I just memorize and play scales and then add bends, hammer-ons and pull-offs?

And last but not least, how do I go about ear training? There's a website I know with an ear trainer, but it just seems so weird to me seeing as the notes aren't played in order and I'm a total newbie.. The concept of intervals is just really hard to grasp on guitar.. I know I should be counting half-steps, but for example, on Youtube there's videos on guitar, but most of them say things like "that's a minor 3rd down" how exactly do they know what note that is that quickly? It just doesn't make sense. How do you know which notes are minor, major, augmented, or diminished?


Thanks in advance. I'm beat. I'll read the responses when I get the time.


First learn the major scale, and then learn the circle of 5ths. Then it will all start to make sense
#4
shocker, for once im referencing something other than my own site to help someone with theory lol. here: http://musictheory.net/trainers/html/id81_en.html

it should help to learn the notes a little easier, but both tubatom and tenfold are correct as well, and i highly recommend using any if not all three methods.
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#5
i didnt force myself to memorize the notes on the fretboard.... i just memorized them by playing the guitar... i used the octaves trick to learn all the notes and now i dont need the octave trick anymore, i just know all the notes now...
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#6
lern where the octaves are and then you dont have to memorise the whole neck and where the same notes are
#7
Quote by cobracarg
i didnt force myself to memorize the notes on the fretboard.... i just memorized them by playing the guitar... i used the octaves trick to learn all the notes and now i dont need the octave trick anymore, i just know all the notes now...


This.
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#8
Don't make it any harder than it needs to be - you don't need to memorise all 24 frets on all 6 strings.

All the strings repeat themselves after the 12th fret - so thats halved what you need to know

You can easily find sharps and flats by moving a single fret from their natural notes - so just learn all the naturals - thats pretty much halved it again

The E and e strings are the same (as far as note names are concerned)

So basically, if you learn the notes of all the frets with a dot up to the 12th fret (and the 12th fret is the same as the open string) on the first 5 strings, you can quickly work out any note anywhere on the neck. So thats just 4 notes on each of 5 strings - or 20 notes. learn a string a day - thats 4 notes a day - and you' ve done it in less than a week.

Another thing that you should find useful is learning to find intervals - especially octaves and unisons. That way if you know for example where one B is you can straight away find all the other Bs in that section of the neck. For intervals I'd check out freepower's theory vids: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=FA239CA8EF73CEC9&search_query=freepower+ug+theory

After that you can speed it up by just playing - as you use different scales and chords you'll suddenley find you know the other notes and don't have to work them out any more.
#10
Quote by Cflobucket
No matter what I try to do, the information just doesn't stick in my head.. I'm trying to do just one string, and what I'm mainly doing is just saying the notes all the way to the octave, repeating them backward, then just memorizing the notes on the fretmarkers. I'm not sure if what I'm doing is right though.. Any tips on how to get this done faster?


Also, I'm trying to dedicate myself more and what I'm doing right now is just refining my technique (can't learn songs because my ear is bad and I don't wanna use the cheap way and play TABS). Should I just memorize and play scales and then add bends, hammer-ons and pull-offs?

And last but not least, how do I go about ear training? There's a website I know with an ear trainer, but it just seems so weird to me seeing as the notes aren't played in order and I'm a total newbie.. The concept of intervals is just really hard to grasp on guitar.. I know I should be counting half-steps, but for example, on Youtube there's videos on guitar, but most of them say things like "that's a minor 3rd down" how exactly do they know what note that is that quickly? It just doesn't make sense. How do you know which notes are minor, major, augmented, or diminished?


Thanks in advance. I'm beat. I'll read the responses when I get the time.


It isn't hard at all, what may be hard is the way these things are taught. There are definitely easy ways for those who are lost.

But learning notes, theory etc is not hard, it just depends on you and the choices you make. Sometimes learning things online or through free lessons, can be like a needle in a haystack - you may eventually find it, but it might be a long search before you get there.

That's part of what makes it hard, but what do you expect for free? The only person that comes close to anything that Ive seen online that's free is Mike Dodge and his free site. If that works for you go to it, but you highlight something that I see a lot on this forum: People who say they want to learn because they are lost, but many wont do anything to get unlost because it isn't free.

Another alternative, but again, probably not free, is private guitar instruction with a local music teacher.

Best,

Sean
#11
Figured I might as well try and answer the rest of your questions too
Quote by Cflobucket
Also, I'm trying to dedicate myself more and what I'm doing right now is just refining my technique (can't learn songs because my ear is bad and I don't wanna use the cheap way and play TABS).
Learning songs from tabs will help you improve your technique, and improve your ear, and you'll learn some songs - why on earth would you not want to do that? Learn some songs, damnit!
Quote by Cflobucket
Should I just memorize and play scales and then add bends, hammer-ons and pull-offs?
Learn scales, then instead of just playing them, USE them. Get yourself some backing tracks and start improvising over them. I'd start off small - just pick 3 or 4 notes from the scale and improv with them, and gradually build it up until you are using the scale over the whole neck.
Quote by Cflobucket
And last but not least, how do I go about ear training? There's a website I know with an ear trainer, but it just seems so weird to me seeing as the notes aren't played in order and I'm a total newbie.. The concept of intervals is just really hard to grasp on guitar.. I know I should be counting half-steps, but for example, on Youtube there's videos on guitar, but most of them say things like "that's a minor 3rd down" how exactly do they know what note that is that quickly? It just doesn't make sense. How do you know which notes are minor, major, augmented, or diminished?
Notes aren't major/minor/aug/diminished - intervals are.

Watch freepower's video theory lessons - they cover intervals really well, including how to find them on your guitar neck.
Last edited by zhilla at Jan 8, 2010,
#12
Quote by Cflobucket
No matter what I try to do, the information just doesn't stick in my head.


To make the note names stick, you need to regularly associate the names with where they are on the neck.


It takes time.


One thing that puts you in that situation is reading standard notation in all positions. It's not a shortcut though. You'd need to be dedicated /willing to put in the time to accomplish the goal.
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Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jan 8, 2010,
#13
You need to start using them...no point spending time solely trying to memorise the names if everytime you learn a chord, lick or song you revert to thinking of everything as "x fret x string"
Actually called Mark!

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#14
In addition to all the great advice above, especially sight reading, learn the notes at the seventh fret. For the E string it is B; for the A string it is E; for the D string it is A; etc. That helps you to find adjacent notes. So then E string 8th fret is C, etc.

In other words, instead of going up and down one string, you may find it easier to learn all the notes on the 7th fret, 5th fret, 10th fret, etc.
Last edited by rdsmith3 at Jan 8, 2010,
#17
Thanks alot, I feel like I got a commonwealth of information here. I'm gonna study all this and hopefully I can get this done by say in 2 months? Hmm.. Not sure.
#18
Don't look at it like that. If you are just wanting to "get this stuff outta the way" you're going to hate every minute of it and not learn much. Try to get into the mindset that you really enjoy learning about this because it will help you become a better musician.
#19
When I was trying to learn the notes what worked for me was going through the cirle of 5ths and finding each note everywhere on the fretboard. I'd start with finding all the F's, than the C's, etc., etc. I'd cycle through that twice a day. It probably took less than 5 minutes a day. Since then I've been working on sightreading, which has helped my command of the fretboard a lot. If I was you, I wouldn't stress about learning the note names, just spend 5 minutes a day and over time you'll get it. This could be something you do when you have a few spare moments in the day, like between commerials while watching television.
#20
Quote by Symphony21
Don't look at it like that. If you are just wanting to "get this stuff outta the way" you're going to hate every minute of it and not learn much. Try to get into the mindset that you really enjoy learning about this because it will help you become a better musician.

+1000000
#21
I've actually recently written some software to help with learning the fretboard, which I'm giving away for free. You can get it here:

http://www.guitarcourses.ws/fretboardtrainer.html

(sorry it's got some advertising in it, but I gotta eat!). New to this forum - hope it's OK to post this but I think it will help the original poster.

Generally, I think it's a good idea to focus on learning root shapes and focus on the E and A strings (as you'll use them a lot for barre chords). The root shapes will help you get from there to the notes on the other strings, as will navigating from the open strings if the notes are close. Learning the notes across the 7th fret will speed things up as you can use this as another baseline to navigate to other notes more quickly.

For ear training, I would highly recommend EarMaster 5 (http://www.earmaster.com/ ). It costs a little bit, but I've used it for a while and I think the investment is well worth it.

Cheers,

Graham
#22
Quote by grahampp
I've actually recently written some software to help with learning the fretboard, which I'm giving away for free. You can get it here:

http://www.guitarcourses.ws/fretboardtrainer.html

(sorry it's got some advertising in it, but I gotta eat!). New to this forum - hope it's OK to post this but I think it will help the original poster.



Graham,

So as I understand the software after examining it, you are using a CAGED approach to teach them how to identify a note on a particular string.

I see your attempt but it seems, a bit... slow. I'm trying to figure out how this method for example would allow someone to find any note on any string within, say a half seconds.

First, you have the matter of identifying which string the particular root note falls on for that particular caged shape and then to use a step by step approach to find it within the CAGED chain. To me that sounds like trying to figure out where S is in the alphabet, by starting at A.

The other criticism I have is the fretboard diagrams, where the placement is on top of, the actual frets, and not in the center between two frets, as the fingers would be placed.
#23
Quote by Sean0913

The other criticism I have is the fretboard diagrams, where the placement is on top of, the actual frets, and not in the center between two frets, as the fingers would be placed.


I've studied quite a few like that. It was confusing to say the least.
#24
Quote by zhilla
Don't make it any harder than it needs to be - you don't need to memorise all 24 frets on all 6 strings.

All the strings repeat themselves after the 12th fret - so thats halved what you need to know

You can easily find sharps and flats by moving a single fret from their natural notes - so just learn all the naturals - thats pretty much halved it again

The E and e strings are the same (as far as note names are concerned)

So basically, if you learn the notes of all the frets with a dot up to the 12th fret (and the 12th fret is the same as the open string) on the first 5 strings, you can quickly work out any note anywhere on the neck. So thats just 4 notes on each of 5 strings - or 20 notes. learn a string a day - thats 4 notes a day - and you' ve done it in less than a week.

Another thing that you should find useful is learning to find intervals - especially octaves and unisons. That way if you know for example where one B is you can straight away find all the other Bs in that section of the neck. For intervals I'd check out freepower's theory vids: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=FA239CA8EF73CEC9&search_query=freepower+ug+theory

After that you can speed it up by just playing - as you use different scales and chords you'll suddenley find you know the other notes and don't have to work them out any more.


+1. Another thing that will help map out the fretboard for you:

- All the notes on the 4th string are the same as the 6th string except 2 frets (and one octave up)
- All the notes on the 3th string are the same as the 5th string except 2 frets (and one octave up)
- The 2nd string is the same as the 4th, except 3 frets and one octave up.
- The 1 string is the same as the 3rd, except 3 frets and one octave up.

One other thing that may help is to get tabs, print them off and write out the notes on them next to the string/fret number. That should give you plenty of practice at seeing for example, 4th str, 7th fret, and saying "ah-ha, that's an A". It may give you a headache at first, but I think you'll be surprised at how quickly it gets easier.
#25
Quote by Sean0913
Graham,

So as I understand the software after examining it, you are using a CAGED approach to teach them how to identify a note on a particular string.

I see your attempt but it seems, a bit... slow. I'm trying to figure out how this method for example would allow someone to find any note on any string within, say a half seconds.

First, you have the matter of identifying which string the particular root note falls on for that particular caged shape and then to use a step by step approach to find it within the CAGED chain. To me that sounds like trying to figure out where S is in the alphabet, by starting at A.

The other criticism I have is the fretboard diagrams, where the placement is on top of, the actual frets, and not in the center between two frets, as the fingers would be placed.


Sean,

Thanks for your feedback. Yes, it is pretty much the CAGED approach that's followed in the software. It may seem slow to start with, but the main point of the software is that repeating the practice exercises help you to visualise these patterns and imprint them in your brain so after practicing them for a while you can find them quickly. Generally, you wouldn't need to use the full CAGED chain to find a note as you will develop knowledge of some of the notes on the fretboard and quickly find others using those as a baseline. For example, most guitarists will quickly learn the notes on the E and A strings as they use them as roots for E and A type barre chords. Four of the five root patterns include either the E or A string, so if you've learned the root patterns you'll find it easier to get the notes on the D, G and B strings by using the root patterns to relate them back to the E and A strings. The point is rather than learning the fretboard as a whole (which can seem overwhelming and I think causes most people to give up), to learn sections of the fretboard and use patterns to navigate from those. As your fretboard knowledge increases, you'll increase the number of notes you "just know" and decrease the amount of navigation you have to do.

However, I think there's no substitute for repetition and practice when learning the fretboard, which is I think the biggest advantage of the software in that it allows you to quickly fire it up and practice the fretboard patterns and finding notes for 5-10 minutes, so you can practice this stuff even if you don't have your guitar with you.

I think you're right about the positioning of the notes on the fretboard diagram, but I also felt it was kind of personal preference, so I have actually included an option in the options page to change it. If you go to the options tab, you'll see that you can choose to have the notes positioned on the fret, behind the fret or in the centre between the two frets. In a future release I might change the default.

Thanks again for taking the time to give me your feedback

Graham
#26
I'd suggest learning standard notation at the same time, then practising lots of sight reading. That way you learn both standard notation and the notes on the fretboard while playing.
#27
Quote by 12345abcd3
I'd suggest learning standard notation at the same time, then practising lots of sight reading. That way you learn both standard notation and the notes on the fretboard while playing.


I agree, but the speed of learning to sightread/play is about as fast as running with cinder blocks strapped to your feet. Especially to reach the point where they are proficient with the entire neck.