#1
I was curious, what is the legality of possessing marijuana if you consider yourself a Rastafarian in the United States? I'm just curious because it is legal for members of certain Native American tribes to possess psychedelics due to freedom of religion, but I hadn't heard anything regarding Rastafarians.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
#2
It's still illegal. The Native Americans who can do that usually live on a reservation, don't leave said reservation, and carry their Native American identification card.
#3
smart law people,

lol at the oxymoron
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Quote by jimmyled
jimmybanks youre a genius.


aparently i ar smrt?
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#4
most of the time, coppers wont give a shit if you have weed anyway.

well, atleast in london, they have bigger fish to fry.

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#6
Quote by d3adh3adch3mist
salvia is your friend...


I'm not looking for a legal way to do drugs, I wouldn't convert to a religion for legal purposes, I'm just curious. I like to see how precedents like these come out.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
#7
Quote by d3adh3adch3mist
salvia is your friend...


apparently u have never tried salvia


nothing even similar to weed,
most people hate it and have bad trips
and it lasts all of ~5 minutes,


weed and salvia=plant, but,
weed=/= salvia in hte slightest
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wy is yer mad at muy gramhar fer?


Quote by jimmyled
jimmybanks youre a genius.


aparently i ar smrt?
Quote by dyingLeper
jimmybanks youre a genius


GO SENS GO
#8
For some reason I do not see this working in the US...

The same argument could be made for many ancient religions that practiced human sacrifice, but you never see that happening legally
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#9
Quote by JimmyBanks6
apparently u have never tried salvia


nothing even similar to weed,
most people hate it and have bad trips
and it lasts all of ~5 minutes,


weed and salvia=plant, but,
weed=/= salvia in hte slightest


wrong, i have never tried weed.
i'm yet to experience a bad trip on salvia. having said that, i have tried it all of three times in my life.
i was just tryin to make a point about the hypocrisy of drug law.
#11
Quote by barden1069
For some reason I do not see this working in the US...

The same argument could be made for many ancient religions that practiced human sacrifice, but you never see that happening legally


Yeah but they shouldn't be able to discriminate between native americans and other people.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
#12
Quote by tayroar
Yeah but they shouldn't be able to discriminate between native americans and other people.


k u go live on the reserves, then come back and talk
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wy is yer mad at muy gramhar fer?


Quote by jimmyled
jimmybanks youre a genius.


aparently i ar smrt?
Quote by dyingLeper
jimmybanks youre a genius


GO SENS GO
#13
Quote by JimmyBanks6
k u go live on the reserves, then come back and talk


I wasn't using the term discriminate to mean racist I was using it to mean that it applies to one group and not another, which is what the term actually means. I'm not trying to see if I can legally smoke weed, by converting. I have no intentions of converting, I'm just interested to see how that would turn out.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
#14
Quote by tayroar
I wasn't using the term discriminate to mean racist I was using it to mean that it applies to one group and not another, which is what the term actually means. I'm not trying to see if I can legally smoke weed, by converting. I have no intentions of converting, I'm just interested to see how that would turn out.


consider the reserve as an embassy,
the rules are different on the land,
if they go off the reserve the laws change, as does if you go off an embassy.

If you go into an embassy the laws change, as you are allowed to smoke weed on the reserve.

It does not discriminate outside the reserve, you are falsely looking at the situation.
Sell and Promote your music TuneHub!



wy is yer mad at muy gramhar fer?


Quote by jimmyled
jimmybanks youre a genius.


aparently i ar smrt?
Quote by dyingLeper
jimmybanks youre a genius


GO SENS GO
#15
Quote by tayroar
Yeah but they shouldn't be able to discriminate between native americans and other people.

I think it comes down to (for a large part) the amount of lobbying that groups do. There are a lot of Native American groups that lobby with politicians. Rastafarians don't have nearly the lobbying presence that many other religions do. That being said, I think it's really important to preserve religion of all kinds. Plus, white people really ****ed over the Natives when they came over, and there isn't really enough that can be done to make up for that.
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"Shiva opens her arms now..
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#16
Quote by barden1069
For some reason I do not see this working in the US...

The same argument could be made for many ancient religions that practiced human sacrifice, but you never see that happening legally

I think even the most fervent supporters to legalize pot could draw a very clear line between right and wrong when it came to human sacrifice. Shitty, shitty argument.

That's right up there with Bill O'Reilly or George Will suggesting that if we legalize gay marriage, we might as well legalize beastiality. I'm pretty sure that personal preferences aside, some things are so obviously wrong that very few people need it to be explained to them.
Quote by d3adh3adch3mist

i was just tryin to make a point about the hypocrisy of drug law.

Like the previous poster said, weed is only legal for Native Americans on their reservations - because technically, those resevations aren't part of the United States. That is why they allow gambling, and do not pay taxes. Or at least pay very few taxes. In some states, if you're carrying a written perscription for it on your person you can also have weed. If an individual officer chooses to arrest you or let you off that's his call, but marijuana is (to the best of my knowledge) only 'legal' in these two instances. It some states it is decriminalized, meaning they won't arrest you if you only have a little, but it's not actually legal.

Allowing it for religious reasons isn't a good argument. It's perfectly valid, but the counterpoint is that no proof is necessary - all you'd have to do is tell the cop you're a Rasta, and maybe talk a little about Marcus Garvey if he quizzes you. In order to legalize weed for religious uses without making it legal across the board, you'd need to create a system where anyone in those religions was catalogued and put into a system and given an ID card. Most people view this as an intrustion of their privacy, and going against the separation of church and state, so it's a can of worms nobody really wants to open.

The only real answer is decriminalization ... if you get caught with a doobie or so, the cop looks the other way. If you have more if might get confiscated, and maybe you'll get a small fine. More than a small amount is considered intent to sell, and it's criminal again. There are a number of countries that work thi way.
#17
Quote by jean_genie
I think even the most fervent supporters to legalize pot could draw a very clear line between right and wrong when it came to human sacrifice. Shitty, shitty argument.

That's right up there with Bill O'Reilly or George Will suggesting that if we legalize gay marriage, we might as well legalize beastiality. I'm pretty sure that personal preferences aside, some things are so obviously wrong that very few people need it to be explained to them.

haha I realized it was a bad example right after I posted. I was trying to convey that Rastafarians in general don't have a lot of presence in America today and that moral subjectivity comes down to who has the most power. It came out wrong though
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#18
Quote by stratguy335
It's still illegal. The Native Americans who can do that usually live on a reservation, don't leave said reservation, and carry their Native American identification card.

Ugh.

Just.

Ugh.

That gets me very very irritated indeed. I'm disgusted.

Totally unrelated to the thread topic, but there's a f*cking 'legal' issue to tackle.
#19
Quote by JimmyBanks6
consider the reserve as an embassy,
the rules are different on the land,
if they go off the reserve the laws change, as does if you go off an embassy.

If you go into an embassy the laws change, as you are allowed to smoke weed on the reserve.

It does not discriminate outside the reserve, you are falsely looking at the situation.

Actually, the statute reads:
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the use, possession, or transportation of peyote by an Indian for bona fide traditional ceremonial purposes in connection with the practice of a traditional Indian religion is lawful, and shall not be prohibited by the United States or any State.

What does Indian mean though?

(1) the term “Indian” means a member of an Indian tribe;
(2) the term “Indian tribe” means any tribe, band, nation, pueblo, or other organized group or community of Indians, including any Alaska Native village (as defined in, or established pursuant to, the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.)), which is recognized as eligible for the special programs and services provided by the United States to Indians because of their status as Indians;


So all you have to do if you want to legally use Peyote is become a member of an Indian tribe, which isn't always a hard thing to do, or so I hear. Of course there are some states that don't have the "Indian" requirement, meaning that all you have to do is be a member of the Native American Church, who don't discriminate based on race.


The UDV took a similar case a few years back and got their drug (Ayahuasca) legalised for them.

A court case allowing União do Vegetal to use the tea for religious purposes in the United States, Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal, was heard by the U.S. Supreme Court on November 1, 2005; the decision, released February 21, 2006, allows the UDV to use the tea in its ceremonies pursuant to the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. In a similar case an Ashland, Oregon based Santo Daime church sued for their right to import and consume ayahuasca tea. In March 2009, U.S. District Court Judge Panner ruled in favor of the Santo Daime, acknowledging its protection from prosecution under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act



However the Rastafarian movement haven't been successful.
In 1998, then-Attorney General of the United States Janet Reno, gave a legal opinion that Rastafari do not have the religious right to smoke ganjah in violation of the United States' drug laws.

However, I'd imagine if a case were to be taken today, given the precedent set by the UDV and the more lax attitude to Cannabis, they may be successful.
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#20
Quote by Kumanji
Ugh.

Just.

Ugh.

That gets me very very irritated indeed. I'm disgusted.

Totally unrelated to the thread topic, but there's a f*cking 'legal' issue to tackle.

Native Americans don't need to carry an ID card at all times - just if they want the enjoy freedoms or lower taxes that American citizens do not enjoy. It's less like a barcode tattoo, and more like a passport.
#21
You gotta be Christian the only right religion.
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#22
Quote by JimmyBanks6
apparently u have never tried salvia


nothing even similar to weed,
most people hate it and have bad trips
and it lasts all of ~5 minutes,


weed and salvia=plant, but,
weed=/= salvia in hte slightest

Watching videos of people on salvia is really funny though.


I'm assuming they'd still bust you
#23
Quote by Nexium
You gotta be Christian the only right religion.

The native American Church is Christian, and the Rastafari movement arose out of Christianity too, and Jesus is central to their doctrine IIRC.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#24
Quote by Ur all $h1t
The native American Church is Christian, and the Rastafari movement arose out of Christianity too, and Jesus is central to their doctrine IIRC.



Burn!

Ouch

Seems like every other thread in here ends up in a hardcore Religious/Political talk 'i am right you are wrong no in betweens.'


Reasons i am getting sick of the pit been spending less and less time in here i wonder how Kensai manages.
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Quote by KingJak236
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That's the rockstar way to go. I salute him.
#25
I can't believe that some people are allowed to take drugs and others aren't just because of someones imaginary friend.

The people of this world make me want to pound my face in with a steaming hot iron.
#26
Quote by barden1069
For some reason I do not see this working in the US...

The same argument could be made for many ancient religions that practiced human sacrifice, but you never see that happening legally


For the last time, human sacrifice is not in any way comparible to a Rastaman smoking herb.

Sacrificing someone means killing them (as if it wasn't painfully obvious).
Me sitting smoking my chalice does not involve any violence or harm to anyone.
You would have to be some kind of idiot to equate the two.

As for the original question, in the US it is still illegal for Rastafari people to smoke herb. There have been challenges to it but every time it gets shot down in a blaze of hypocricy and red tape.
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- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
#27
Quote by Greenie_777
I can't believe that some people are allowed to take drugs and others aren't just because of someones imaginary friend.

The people of this world make me want to pound my face in with a steaming hot iron.

I think that everyone should be allowed take whatever drugs they like, but I still have to admire the religious freedom that American law allows for the UDV and NAtive American Chruch etc.
However the Rastafari situation is incredibly hypocritical.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#28
Quote by jean_genie
Allowing it for religious reasons isn't a good argument. It's perfectly valid, but the counterpoint is that no proof is necessary - all you'd have to do is tell the cop you're a Rasta, and maybe talk a little about Marcus Garvey if he quizzes you. In order to legalize weed for religious uses without making it legal across the board, you'd need to create a system where anyone in those religions was catalogued and put into a system and given an ID card. Most people view this as an intrustion of their privacy, and going against the separation of church and state, so it's a can of worms nobody really wants to open.

The only real answer is decriminalization ... if you get caught with a doobie or so, the cop looks the other way. If you have more if might get confiscated, and maybe you'll get a small fine. More than a small amount is considered intent to sell, and it's criminal again. There are a number of countries that work thi way.


I agree wholeheartedly.

No sensible Rasta would sign up for such a database anyway.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
#29
Quote by Ur all $h1t
I think that everyone should be allowed take whatever drugs they like, but I still have to admire the religious freedom that American law allows for the UDV and NAtive American Chruch etc.
However the Rastafari situation is incredibly hypocritical.


I think it's a perfect example of how most laws and politics are based on a popularity contest rather than facts and evidence.

The American government had to make up for their mistreatment of the natives in some way.
#30
By the way, the only country I know of that makes a distinction when it comes to Rastafari and herb is Italy, where there was a case where it was ruled that when a Rastafarian smokes herb it is a religious act rather than a criminal one.
I don't remember the exact specifics but it was quite highly publicised so it shouldn't be too hard to dig up.

Quote by Greenie_777
The American government had to make up for their mistreatment of the natives in some way.


They have a lot to pay back to a lot of people.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
Last edited by IDread at Jan 8, 2010,
#31
Quote by IDread
For the last time, human sacrifice is not in any way comparible to a Rastaman smoking herb.

Sacrificing someone means killing them (as if it wasn't painfully obvious).
Me sitting smoking my chalice does not involve any violence or harm to anyone.
You would have to be some kind of idiot to equate the two.

As for the original question, in the US it is still illegal for Rastafari people to smoke herb. There have been challenges to it but every time it gets shot down in a blaze of hypocricy and red tape.

For the last time, I did not intend it to be read like that. How about you go back and read my other posts explaining what I was trying to say instead of attacking me because of a poor choice of words?
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"Shiva opens her arms now..
...to make sure I don't get too far"
#32
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Actually, the statute reads:
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the use, possession, or transportation of peyote by an Indian for bona fide traditional ceremonial purposes in connection with the practice of a traditional Indian religion is lawful, and shall not be prohibited by the United States or any State.

What does Indian mean though?

(1) the term “Indian” means a member of an Indian tribe;
(2) the term “Indian tribe” means any tribe, band, nation, pueblo, or other organized group or community of Indians, including any Alaska Native village (as defined in, or established pursuant to, the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.)), which is recognized as eligible for the special programs and services provided by the United States to Indians because of their status as Indians;


So all you have to do if you want to legally use Peyote is become a member of an Indian tribe, which isn't always a hard thing to do, or so I hear. Of course there are some states that don't have the "Indian" requirement, meaning that all you have to do is be a member of the Native American Church, who don't discriminate based on race.


The UDV took a similar case a few years back and got their drug (Ayahuasca) legalised for them.

A court case allowing União do Vegetal to use the tea for religious purposes in the United States, Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal, was heard by the U.S. Supreme Court on November 1, 2005; the decision, released February 21, 2006, allows the UDV to use the tea in its ceremonies pursuant to the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. In a similar case an Ashland, Oregon based Santo Daime church sued for their right to import and consume ayahuasca tea. In March 2009, U.S. District Court Judge Panner ruled in favor of the Santo Daime, acknowledging its protection from prosecution under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act



However the Rastafarian movement haven't been successful.
In 1998, then-Attorney General of the United States Janet Reno, gave a legal opinion that Rastafari do not have the religious right to smoke ganjah in violation of the United States' drug laws.

However, I'd imagine if a case were to be taken today, given the precedent set by the UDV and the more lax attitude to Cannabis, they may be successful.



Do you know the process of joining the tribe at all? I'm part Cherokee and live in Oklahoma but my family never joined the tribe. Is there any genetic test I could do or anything?

edit: once again I'm nt looking to smoke peyote, I'm looking for free college benefits and reduced taxes. Cherokee is one of the best tribes to be in.
Due what you want as long as you vote Due!
Last edited by tayroar at Jan 8, 2010,
#33
Anyways religion shouldn't have anything to do whit your right to use a illegal/legal mind altering substance,it should rather be you as a human being and your freedom as a human being,able to use whatever mind altering substance 'as long as you don't hurt anyone ellse.

Stuff and stuff kinda tipsy....
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Last edited by Nexium at Jan 8, 2010,
#34
Quote by barden1069
For the last time, I did not intend it to be read like that. How about you go back and read my other posts explaining what I was trying to say instead of attacking me because of a poor choice of words?


My apologies then.
I just get a little annoyed when someone tries to equate my sacrement with murder.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
#35
Quote by Nexium
Anyways religion shouldn't have anything to do whit your right to use a illegal/legal mind altering substance,it should rather be you as a human being and your freedom as a human being,able to use whatever mind altering substance 'as long as you don't hurt anyone ellse.


As much as I'd love the legalisation of drugs. If the government made it legal for a certain religious group to take drugs and not others then I would right down their protesting to make it illegal for them again.

Either that or I would convert very quickly.
#36
Quote by Greenie_777
As much as I'd love the legalisation of drugs. If the government made it legal for a certain religious group to take drugs and not others then I would right down their protesting to make it illegal for them again.

Either that or I would convert very quickly.


Surely that is just counterproductive? If they legalise it for one group then fight for them to legalise it for all not to make it illegal for all again.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
#37
Quote by IDread
My apologies then.
I just get a little annoyed when someone tries to equate my sacrement with murder.

I understand man. It was really a miserable example, and I didn't really think it out before posting and then i was like, "oh shit..."

btw I enjoy burning the occasional bowl of the magical goodness too. I think bud should be legalized. I just think it's stupid that the government can pick and choose which religions are "real" and which can be restricted.
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"Shiva opens her arms now..
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#38
Quote by IDread
Surely that is just counterproductive? If they legalise it for one group then fight for them to legalise it for all not to make it illegal for all again.


Well yea I guess I would start off by thinking it's a step in the right direction. But if it didn't work then if I can't have it THEN NOWONE CAN!

Bitterness FTW.
#39
Quote by barden1069
btw I enjoy burning the occasional bowl of the magical goodness too. I think bud should be legalized. I just think it's stupid that the government can pick and choose which religions are "real" and which can be restricted.


Agreed. Rastafari aren't the only ones to burn it for good meditation and the herb has many more uses than just that. The fight isn't won until it is free for all to use in whatever way they please.
"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community."
- H.I.M Haile Selassie I
#40
Quote by tayroar
Do you know the process of joining the tribe at all? I'm part Cherokee and live in Oklahoma but my family never joined the tribe. Is there any genetic test I could do or anything?

edit: once again I'm nt looking to smoke peyote, I'm looking for free college benefits and reduced taxes. Cherokee is one of the best tribes to be in.

I believe they have embassies and stuff. I know some tribes require proof of 50% Native American blood while others only require you to be able to prove that you have someone somewhere along the line who was native American. Depends on the tribe etc.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington