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sir jacko
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#1
Hi Guys!

I'm looking for some material where people (a credible source i.e book, magazine etc) have said that SRV isn't such a great guitarist, and is over rated-or something along these lines. This is only because every book I read is singing his praises, which is good, (he's my fav guitarist lol!) but bad for dissertation :-\

Cheers!
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Darkkon
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#2
SRV isn't such a great guitarist, and is over rated.

Use me as a source?
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AeolianWolf
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#3
he's a great guitarist in the sense that hendrix was a great guitarist.

they were pioneers, but compare them to guitarists of today, and...well, you see where this is going.
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shwilly
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#4
I know I've heard people say something in a similar fashion yeah, or they compared him with other guitarists who were obviously better. Can't think of an example though

Would you rather have a source stating something about his limited technique, or about his overal style not being the most original or something like that

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beau05
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#5
Quote by AeolianWolf
he's a great guitarist in the sense that hendrix was a great guitarist.

they were pioneers, but compare them to guitarists of today, and...well, you see where this is going.



imO, he could outphrase alot of modern day guitarists

again, it's mostly based on the opinion of the listener
carmour
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#6
Quote by AeolianWolf
he's a great guitarist in the sense that hendrix was a great guitarist.

they were pioneers, but compare them to guitarists of today, and...well, you see where this is going.



Really? I think he was pretty derivative and not really comparable to hendrix
AeolianWolf
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#7
Quote by beau05
imO, he could outphrase alot of modern day guitarists

again, it's mostly based on the opinion of the listener


whereas you are right about that, he himself is easily outphrased by david gilmour. that is my answer to that statement.

Quote by carmour
Really? I think he was pretty derivative and not really comparable to hendrix


i wasn't comparing his style to that of hendrix directly, but, rather, i said that they are comparable in that they were both pioneers. though SRV was in a slightly later time frame than hendrix.

they were excellent guitarists in their day. personally, i don't like either of them much, but their contributions to modern guitar-oriented music simply cannot be ignored. i wouldn't say they're not good guitarists; they're just obsolete, for lack of a better word.
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carmour
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#8
Yeah, i wasn't talking about in style. I'm talking about in influence and originality. I struggle to find an original idea on par with any of Hendrix's stuff in anything SRV has done (bar Lenny). It all sounds like Hendrix or Albert King to me..

I don't hate him, I just think he's massively over-rated
Last edited by carmour at Jan 28, 2010,
Goldenad
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#9
sir jacko, i dont have any source but a lot of people will agree that many of SRVs riffs are simply expansions(and sometimes blatant ripoffs) of earlier blues guitarists like albert king. however, a lot of times this is just what the blues is, so take that for what its worth. guitarists are always retooling old riffs and making them their own
Blind In 1 Ear
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#10
Quote by carmour
Yeah, i wasn't talking about in style. I'm talking about in influence and originality. I struggle to find an original idea on par with any of Hendrix's stuff in anything SRV has done (bar Lenny). It all sounds like Hendrix or Albert King to me..

I don't hate him, I just think he's massively over-rated

i hear that kind of thing a lot and i agree to an extent. he does have that albert king and hendrix influence big time. but imo, it doesnt really sound like them at all. when he does licks in their style, he sounds like HIM. he had a very unique tone and style of phrasing. if you dont think he did, just look at the "stevie clones" on youtube. they never say they sound like hendrix or albert king, they call them stevie clones. but i mean, you could say that about just about every player. everyone has their influences that come out in their playing. if you wanna bring it back to jimi, he was pretty much a buddy guy clone.

but honestly, i think anyone who is considered the best ever is over-rated. he was clearly very good. a very clean player with a great tone and great vibrato.

TS, i cant think of anything in a magazine or a famous person saying that kind of stuff. you probably wont because no one in the publice eye wants to down talk a legend. but ive heard many people in every day life who say these kinds of things. the only one ive ever read in a mag was when they were talking about his time with bowie. i think it was the producer or something who said "i didnt get it. i thought he sounded like albert king. i said if you wanted that sound, why not just get albert king. at least people would know who he was." or something along those lines. in the end he said that "he got it" after they recorded some tracks.
RubberSoul54321
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#11
Dan Aurbach, The Black Keys:

"Stevie Ray Vaughan was a bloated coke head and his music was boring." As quoted in Total Guitar magazine a couple of years back.
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carmour
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#12
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
i hear that kind of thing a lot and i agree to an extent. he does have that albert king and hendrix influence big time. but imo, it doesnt really sound like them at all. when he does licks in their style, he sounds like HIM. he had a very unique tone and style of phrasing. if you dont think he did, just look at the "stevie clones" on youtube. they never say they sound like hendrix or albert king, they call them stevie clones. but i mean, you could say that about just about every player. everyone has their influences that come out in their playing. if you wanna bring it back to jimi, he was pretty much a buddy guy clone.



Personally, I disagree with the idea that Hendrix was pretty much a Buddy Guy clone. When did Buddy Guy EVER write anything equivalent to Little Wing, Angel, Hey Baby, 1983 a Merman I shall Be, Voodoo Child, Have you ever been to electric ladyland, Bold As Love, Machine Gun, Third Stone From The Sun. To me, Hendrix's playing has FAR more scope than anything Buddy Guy ever came up with. Sure, he was influenced by him and took a page from his book in stage antics and lead playing, but Hendrix's lyrics and song arrangements were far more original and groundbreaking than anything SRV or Buddy Guy ever managed to do.

And yeah, obviously ever blues guitar player is standing on the shoulders of the players before them, that's part of the genre, I just personally think the extent to which SRV copied was pretty massive. Lack of originality aside, even on a pure guitar playing level, his constant raking tone does nothing for me, but I find he plays a lot better on his more original stuff like Lenny and Riveria Paradise
Last edited by carmour at Jan 28, 2010,
stratoclap
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#13
Quote by RubberSoul54321
Dan Aurbach, The Black Keys:

"Stevie Ray Vaughan was a bloated coke head and his music was boring." As quoted in Total Guitar magazine a couple of years back.

Wow that's a ridiculous person to say that. To me about 80% of Black Keys sounds sounds the same.
Blind In 1 Ear
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#14
Quote by carmour
Personally, I disagree with the idea that Hendrix was pretty much a Buddy Guy clone. When did Buddy Guy EVER write anything equivalent to Little Wing, Angel, Hey Baby, 1983 a Merman I shall Be, Voodoo Child, Have you ever been to electric ladyland, Bold As Love, Machine Gun, Third Stone From The Sun. To me, Hendrix's playing has FAR more scope than anything Buddy Guy ever came up with. Sure, he was influenced by him and took a page from his book in stage antics and lead playing, but Hendrix's lyrics and song arrangements were far more original and groundbreaking than anything SRV or Buddy Guy ever managed to do.

im not talking about his song writing at all, i dont think anyone is talking about songwriting. i thought we were talking about guitar playing. if you want to talk about songwriting though, what has SRV made that sounds like hendrix? SRV was pretty pure blues and didnt sound anything like hendrix imo. im not saying his songs were better or more groundbreaking than jimi's, im talking about how they played guitar. to me, when i hear SRV i never think of hendrix. even when i first heard him. even now, i really dont hear much similarity in playing style. some licks here and there maybe. but those licks can be traced back further than hendrix so its not really a valid point.
And yeah, obviously ever blues guitar player is standing on the shoulders of the players before them, that's part of the genre, I just personally think the extent to which SRV copied was pretty massive. Lack of originality aside, even on a pure guitar playing level, his constant raking tone does nothing for me, but I find he plays a lot better on his more original stuff like Lenny and Riveria Paradise

name some examples. because other than the albert king stuff which he pretty much plays note for note, i cant think of who else he is copying. i wouldnt even call it copying rather just being influenced.

but if you jst dont like his tone, oh well. ill give you this though, SRV pretty much stuck to his licks. he knew what he could do and did it well. kinda like clapton with ceam. he was great, but he stuck with what he knew. i think hendrix explored more with his playing. and if we want to copare someone to SRV around the same time period, i think jeff healey was probably better both in terms of technical skill and "originality" if you wanna call it that. eric johnson id say is another although hes not really a blues player.
sir jacko
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#15
Quote by RubberSoul54321
Dan Aurbach, The Black Keys:

"Stevie Ray Vaughan was a bloated coke head and his music was boring." As quoted in Total Guitar magazine a couple of years back.


This is a real stab in the dark but, do you know what issue? Thanks for your help guys, keep it coming!
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RubberSoul54321
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#16
Can't remember but I'll see if I can find it.
"I didn't mean to kill nobody ... I just meant to shoot the sonofabitch in the head. Him dying was between him and the Lord." RL Burnside.

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RubberSoul54321
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#17
Quote by stratoclap
Wow that's a ridiculous person to say that. To me about 80% of Black Keys sounds sounds the same.


I won't even dignify that with a defence.
"I didn't mean to kill nobody ... I just meant to shoot the sonofabitch in the head. Him dying was between him and the Lord." RL Burnside.

"I won't waste my love on a nation" BRMC
sir jacko
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#18
Quote by fretboard12
well does this count http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQqNTgnJmpE that's buddy guy he didn't seem to pleased about stevie.

but i tell ya, people should really stop putting guitarist against each other like prize fighters.
cause that's not what they are or any of us for that matter. im sure that some of you have had people pit you against someone else in your home town just because they thought you were better than them.

they are all unique in there on way just like anybody else.


Thanks for this! It will come in very handy, seems wierd that he reacted like that considering all he's said before..
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Melodic_Rocker
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#19
Quote by RubberSoul54321
Dan Aurbach, The Black Keys:

"Stevie Ray Vaughan was a bloated coke head and his music was boring." As quoted in Total Guitar magazine a couple of years back.

Who ever this Dan fellow is, he's pretty much right on the money.
yelad93
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#21
Generally, if someone talented dies young (ie: Hendrix, SRV, Rhoads) they are boosted up in general opinion of skill. Im not saying, however, that they were not amazingly talented (Randy Rhoads is one of my favorite guitarists), but just that people seem to think them higher in skill than the alive ones of equal caliber.
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carmour
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#22
Quote by sir jacko
Thanks for this! It will come in very handy, seems wierd that he reacted like that considering all he's said before..


I very much doubt it was said with any ill intent against SRV, I'd guess he was just pissed off at the lack of respect for blues lineage. Or just the over hyping of SRV after his death..
carmour
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#23
I'm not talking about players here, I'm talking about general fans of the music..
carmour
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#24
Yeah you misunderstood me again bro lolz. Oh wellz I give up
Zoot Allures
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#25
Quote by fretboard12
i can understand that he might think that alot of blues players have a lack of acknowledgment. But everyone from clapton to srv to kieth richards talk about and give
credit to these player's all the time. in fact eric talks about robert johnson and others constantly in interviews.

its just that in that vid he seemed a little strong in his comment which could be took out of meanness very easily. i myself am an srv fan as well as all the others too.

and because of hearing srv made me look into other artist of the blues genre. that i couldn't had told ya they existed before or what they wrote. one in particular willie dixon
and the song's he wrote .



I don't think he disliked stevie though, he's spoke of him very positively in a lot of interviews i've seen.
Blind In 1 Ear
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#27
Quote by fretboard12
well does this count http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQqNTgnJmpE that's buddy guy he didn't seem to pleased about stevie.

but i tell ya, people should really stop putting guitarist against each other like prize fighters.
cause that's not what they are or any of us for that matter. im sure that some of you have had people pit you against someone else in your home town just because they thought you were better than them.

they are all unique in there on way just like anybody else.

i think dont think he was saying anything bad about stevie here. he just wanted them to know that it was john lee hooker he was talking about. at least thats what it seemed like to me. all the othe times ive seen buddy talk about stevie he praised him.
tombstonehand
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#28
Quote by RubberSoul54321
Dan Aurbach, The Black Keys:

"Stevie Ray Vaughan was a bloated coke head and his music was boring." As quoted in Total Guitar magazine a couple of years back.


That sums it up pretty good. He was very talented technically, but his music was not interesting in any way. It was the most generic, uninspired caricature of the blues I've ever heard. He's the favorite blues guitarist of people who know nothing about the blues.
Last edited by tombstonehand at Jan 31, 2010,
Alter-Bridge
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#29
Quote by RubberSoul54321
Can't remember but I'll see if I can find it.

It's from the Blues special released in 2006, "Collector's Edition" sort of thing. You won't be able to find it now unless you know someone who has it.
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#30
Quote by RubberSoul54321
Dan Aurbach, The Black Keys:

"Stevie Ray Vaughan was a bloated coke head and his music was boring." As quoted in Total Guitar magazine a couple of years back.




really? that is hilarious
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sir jacko
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#31
Quote by Alter-Bridge
It's from the Blues special released in 2006, "Collector's Edition" sort of thing. You won't be able to find it now unless you know someone who has it.

Cheers, I might know a space cadet or two that will have it!
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RubberSoul54321
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#32
I've got it somewhere, I just can't find it atm. If it turns up I'll scan the article and pm it to you.
"I didn't mean to kill nobody ... I just meant to shoot the sonofabitch in the head. Him dying was between him and the Lord." RL Burnside.

"I won't waste my love on a nation" BRMC
Blind In 1 Ear
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#33
Quote by tombstonehand
That sums it up pretty good. He was very talented technically, but his music was not interesting in any way. It was the most generic, uninspired caricature of the blues I've ever heard. He's the favorite blues guitarist of people who know nothing about the blues.

thats pretty harsh. so basically you think your music is better than everyone elses and your version of the blues is too. stop being an elitist/purist idiot. god i hate purists. "this is blues, that isnt". give me a ****ing break.
tombstonehand
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#34
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
thats pretty harsh. so basically you think your music is better than everyone elses and your version of the blues is too. stop being an elitist/purist idiot. god i hate purists. "this is blues, that isnt". give me a ****ing break.


It's not that I'm a purist, I just think SRV is overrated. His music is extremely bland and generic. There's nothing really special about what he did. Honestly, his music sounds identical to countless other electric Blues artists, so I can't comprehend where the myth that he was the greatest bluesman of all time came from.
carmour
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#35
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
thats pretty harsh. so basically you think your music is better than everyone elses and your version of the blues is too. stop being an elitist/purist idiot. god i hate purists. "this is blues, that isnt". give me a ****ing break.


How is that 'purist' you described ANY different from a SRV fan boy who thinks that his blues is the best in the world? Seriously. It's the same.

Seriously, I know a few blues purists. You know what's always a common trait between them? They're pretty much ALWAYS awesome players. Shit, I'd watch a so called blues purist over a SRV/ John Mayer clone anyday.

And yeah I second that ^ Tombstonehand post
Blind In 1 Ear
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#36
Quote by tombstonehand
It's not that I'm a purist, I just think SRV is overrated. His music is extremely bland and generic. There's nothing really special about what he did.
i dont care if you dont like him. what you said was stupid. if someone likes SRV, it has nothing to do with if they know anything about blues or not. tons of players loved him. buddy guy loved him, clapton loved him, BB king loved him, albert king loved him, are you going to say they didnt know anything about blues? its niether here nor there. why bash someones opinion and make it seem like your tastes are somehow better than those who dont share your views? grow up man.

Honestly, his music sounds identical to countless other electric Blues artists, so I can't comprehend where the myth that he was the greatest bluesman of all time came from.

really? identical? prove it. let see some examples.

really though, you could say that about any player in any genre. i mean, is hendrix really the best player ever? is vai the best shredder ever? is clapton really god? these people just think SRV was great and to them, he was the best. sure he may not have been the most "original" player, but i like what he did. he may have did albert king licks, but i like the way he did them. is that a crime? you cant help what you like. it has nothing to do with knowledge.

Quote by carmour
How is that 'purist' you described ANY different from a SRV fan boy who thinks that his blues is the best in the world? Seriously. It's the same.

no its not. purists go around telling people that certain players arent "real" blues players and basically think they are better than everyone else. when has a stevie fan ever said anyone else wasnt real blues or that if you didnt like him, you know nothing about blues? i dont agree that SRV was the greatest ever, but i still like him.

anyone who claims thier music is some how better or more "real" is an idiot.

Seriously, I know a few blues purists. You know what's always a common trait between them? They're pretty much ALWAYS awesome players. Shit, I'd watch a so called blues purist over a SRV/ John Mayer clone anyday.

And yeah I second that ^ Tombstonehand post

funny that the blues purists ive met do exactly what they bash SRV for: no originality what so ever. the ones ive seen, try so hard to "stay true to the blues" that they never do anything outside of it. not that they dont play well, but its just the same old blues licks we've heard over and over again. really, i dont see how SRV is any more unoriginal than most blues guitarists. besides being original doesnt mean you do something no one has ever done before, it just means doing it your way. which stevie did. want proof? just look at the "stevie clones". SRV obviously had a recognizable style of his own.

EDIT: seriously, your reasons for him not being a good player are weak at best. i mean, really, how many blues songs can you name with a 12 bar? how many blues songs have the standard repeat the first line twice and then resolve with the 3rd line? how many blues songs have 2 verses, a solo, and then another verse and then ends? how many blues players use standard blues licks and the blues scale? how many blues songs are about their woman leaving or having to leave your woman or being in love with a woman. i guess you might as well say every blues player is bland, boring and unoriginal. besides, it has nothing to do with them being good players or not. SRV was a very clean player. he had great technique. like or hate his music, i doubt anyone would say he couldnt play guitar well.
Last edited by Blind In 1 Ear at Feb 3, 2010,
carmour
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#37
zzz, completely missing the point. I imagine we'd be able to talk out this argument in about 10 mins IRL, but I really seem to fail at getting my point across on the internetz
tombstonehand
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#38
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear

EDIT: seriously, your reasons for him not being a good player are weak at best. i mean, really, how many blues songs can you name with a 12 bar? how many blues songs have the standard repeat the first line twice and then resolve with the 3rd line? how many blues songs have 2 verses, a solo, and then another verse and then ends? how many blues players use standard blues licks and the blues scale? how many blues songs are about their woman leaving or having to leave your woman or being in love with a woman. i guess you might as well say every blues player is bland, boring and unoriginal. besides, it has nothing to do with them being good players or not. SRV was a very clean player. he had great technique. like or hate his music, i doubt anyone would say he couldnt play guitar well.


There is a lot of unoriginality among blues players, especially in the past 50 or so years, but that doesn't mean it's excusable. We should not praise mediocrity.

Mississippi John Hurt, Son House, Lightnin' Hopkins, Furry Lewis, Gary Davis, Blind Lemon Jefferson, and all the other true legends of the blues had instantly recognizable styles. They may have used the I IV V progression and often used the AAB lyric form, but no one would ever mistake a Mississippi John Hurt song with one by Lightnin' Hopkins, or confuse Blind Lemon with Son House. I can't say the same for SRV and most blues-rock players, who seem content to copy licks from the three Kings and act like they're writing a new song.

I will freely admit my biases. I mostly listen to acoustic blues from the 20's, 30's and 40's. With the exception of the first generation of electric blues players I think electric blues is mostly boring, repetitive, recycled crap. Pre-war blues was much more diverse in styles and song-structures (not to say there wasn't a fair share of copying and unoriginal material, because there was), but from the 50's onward blues solidified into a very definite, very strict set of cliches.

I never want to hear another electric blues band do an "original song" based around the boogie shuffle or the stop-time Hoochie Coochie Man lick. I don't want to hear another solo that sounds like a variation on "The Thrill is Gone", or "Stormy Monday", or "Crosscut Saw".

SRV didn't start this problem, but he was one of the main perpetrators. And people like him are the reason the blues is practically a dead art-form now, and the reason why most people think all blues songs sound exactly the same. The blues heard by the general public DOES all sound the same.

I've seen people say that John Mayer (who I bring up because, when he does play blues, is a straight SRV clone) is gonna start a lot of renewed interest in the blues. I don't see it happening. The artists I see getting young people interested in the blues, are Jack White (from the White Stripes and the Raconteurs) and Dan Auerbach (from the Black Keys). The blues has to evolve and diversify if it's gonna stay alive.
Last edited by tombstonehand at Feb 3, 2010,
tombstonehand
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#40
Quote by fretboard12
these guys didn't have options they played what was taught to them by traveling musicians. records of blues music was not really, around probably couldn't afford it if they were.

srv, clapton, and all the others had options between different styles and artist of whose records they wanted to play.

as far as originality is concerned there going to sound like there influences anyone is.
even everyone you mentioned will sound some what like the people they learned from.


Lightnin' Hopkins biggest influence was Blind Lemon Jefferson, and they sound nothing alike, except when Lightnin' did covers of Lemon (and even then he put his own spin on things). The point I'm trying to make is, it's normal to have influences, but being a great imitator does not make you a great guitarist. To be a great guitarist you have to have a high level of personal genius. SRV was certainly a good guitarist (ie. he had a high level of skill as a player), but his lack of creativity disqualifies him from being a great guitarist.