Poll: What do you associate the symbol with?
Poll Options
View poll results: What do you associate the symbol with?
Hatred, Oppression, it should be banned forever.
21 10%
Communist Ideals, I respect it (but don't necessarily agree with it).
195 90%
Voters: 216.
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#1
(ideals might not be the right word but I'm at a loss with my vocabulary at the moment)


Anyways...




My question: when you see an image of the "hammer and sickle" emblem what do you associate it with?

It's crossed my mind that one day I may get a tattoo and I was considering getting this, but I briefly looked online and saw that many people automatically view the symbol as one of hatred, murder, oppresion, mostly because of its use by the Soviet Union for many years. People say that it should be banned because it is the EQUIVALENT or waving around the swastika!

I don't particularly agree with this. Now, perhaps when used in combination with "CCCP", "USSR", or the Red Star, I can see that offending survivors of WWII, and various military conflicts throughout the Cold War, but it in no way represents the same blind hatred that the Nazis exhibited during WWII to a certain group of people.

One thing I noticed while browsing some forum posts were that most people that disagree with the emblem were Americans and American military veterans, but think of it this way: while showing the Hammer and Sickle in some countries may get you in a lot of trouble, showing some Stars and Stripes in other countries could get you killed on the spot.


Anyways, I am drawn to the symbol because I believe that true equality (devoid of government corruption) would truly make the world a better place. People shouldn't have to compete with eachother to be happy and succeed, people should work together for common goals and happiness. Competion in economical and political aspects of life just divides us.

Another reason is due to the Bolsheviks "shaping" of Canada. They are basically the reason Canada is the way it is today. I'm no expert on the details but we are tought it in school because a major event in the history of Canadian "Socialism" took place in my hometown. This article may give a more clear picture.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg_General_Strike


So that's my thoughts, but I was wondering what other people thought of the symbol.


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Oh yeah, and if any artists think it's a cool idea, if someone could draw up their own version of the Hammer and Sickle with no background, and instead of red/gold having a PCB/circuit board kind of design superimposed on the Hammer/Sickle that would be really cool.

EDIT:

TL;DR ---> Refer to poll


I hope I didn't write a damn essay for like 2 posts
Last edited by Tedward at May 18, 2010,
#3
It reminds me of playing red alert when i was a child. "Affirmative!"
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#4
A joining of the Industrial and agricultural workers... Which, I believe, is what it meant in the first place...
#6
I don't associate it with hate. Is there a symbol for hate?
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#7
It expresses a certain set of beiliefs and ideas, and views on such things are always subjective.

Sure, some people may be offended by it, but a lot of people also agree with it. Similarly as you say, a lot of people may think having the stars and stripes is patriotic and admirable, but a lot of people will also think very negatively of it.
#9
I associate it with Communism.
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#11
I don't associate it with anything. It just looks like a symbol to me.
But that's probably down to sheer ignorance on my part.
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#12
Well it kind of sucks that one person, or group of people, who use that symbol to represent them screw it over for everyone else. The sickle and hammer should be representative of everyone doing their part and what not, but now its automatically associated with the USSR. Its the same way with the swastika. The swastika was used for thousands of years, originally in India and east asia. It was a sacred symbol. Then one jackass decided to use it for hatred in the 30's and 40's, and now you can't use it anywhere. Bastards.
#14
Probably only fundamentalist right wing idiots associate it with hatred and murder. It's just a sign.
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#15
Quote by damian_91
Hatred? Who associates it with hatred?



Capitalists !!!


And I guess a primary example of a symbol that connotates hatred would be the swastika. I didn't word it right up above I guess.

EDIT: the swastika isn't the same as the Hindu symbol, they are different directions and the Hindu one was straight up and down.

Hitler created the Swastika himself, and really doesn't represent anything other than the Nazi Party.
Last edited by Tedward at May 18, 2010,
#16
I associate it with the Bolshevik revolution.
If you want to get it then do, the symbolism itself is nice and it can be seen to just stand for communist ideals in general anyway.
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#18


Seriously, though, I don't associate it with hatred.
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#19
Ideals, proletariat and peasants working together and in equality for a uniform society, good stuff.

The only problem being I like my material goods too much.
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#20
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Wow.

You should think a lot more carefully about getting a tattoo.



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#21
Hammer And sickle, whit no thought specific in mind,i think of it as a symbol as a hardworking man /Women /People doing what they can for the better of their society/Country,doing it willingly and happily no force, Just strength and unity,then OFC all of that has/can be manipulated..


Kinda like the Iron Cross/Victorian Cross,pretty much acceptable.
But i'm kinda drunk and i might just have missed the point of this thread.
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#22
Quote by padgea7x
I don't associate it with hate. Is there a symbol for hate?




TS, I associate it with anything but hate.

EDIT: Also, the way your poll is written out is extremely biased in favour of the second option.
Last edited by Declan87 at May 18, 2010,
#23
Quote by Nexium
Hammer And sickle, whit no thought specific in mind,i think of it as a symbol as a hardworking man /Women /People doing what they can for the better of their society/Country,doing it willingly and happily no force, Just strength and unity,then OFC all of that has/can be manipulated..


Kinda like the Iron Cross/Victorian Cross,pretty much acceptable.
But i'm kinda drunk and i might just have missed the point of this thread.



I understand it

I guess you're not drunk enough!
#24
Quote by Tedward
Capitalists !!!


And I guess a primary example of a symbol that connotates hatred would be the swastika. I didn't word it right up above I guess.

EDIT: the swastika isn't the same as the Hindu symbol, they are different directions and the Hindu one was straight up and down.

Hitler created the Swastika himself, and really doesn't represent anything other than the Nazi Party.


It's exactly the same, Hitler didn't create it
#26
Quote by urik
Probably only fundamentalist right wing idiots associate it with hatred and murder. It's just a sign.


Maybe someone who was a victim of the purges or who lived behind the Iron Curtain? I could understand perfectly if they never wanted to see a Hammer and Sickle again.

I just associate it with Communism, I hardly think the Greeks waving the red flags from the Parthenon now are Stalinists.
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#27
So...did you fail to check up on the history of the USSR? Or did you just forget that Stalin and Lenin killed millions of their own countrymen in purges by sending them to Siberia? Maybe that's why people get negative feelings over the Hammer and Sickle, cuz it reminds them of the two madmen who murdered millions.
#29
Well it's in itself not a bad symbol, nor is the swastika. It's just the association people have with the symbol that's bad. The Swastika makes you think about the Nazis and the Hammer and Sickle makes you think about the Soviets. If you look at it that way I suppose they're indeed equally bad because of Josef Stalin and his mass-murders, however I associate the symbol itself with communism which is a great movement in theory that sadly doesn't hold up in reality because of the human nature of self-preservation.
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#30
I associate it with Ideals, although you can see why people would associate it with hatred and oppression.

Stop me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Stalin killed over 60mil people, and I know he is in no way representative of the whole of communism, but he is the most famous.
#31
i assosciate it with communist values, so ideals.
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#32
Quote by alexmethers
It's exactly the same, Hitler didn't create it



Actually, in a sense, he did. It was a buddhist symbol, but hitler took it, and turned the lines around, if that makes any sense.
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#33
Ideals. It's a US thing to look at communism with such a bad eye, saying it's all totalitarianism and such. I'm not saying all americans think that, but here in Europe, people don't go crazy when you say "communism" or "socialism", because they (usually) know what it is and weren't brainwashed into thinking it's the root of all evil. I've only seen that coming from the US. Here in France we usually think the communist party is a joke party that will never get to power because it's so outdated (yes, we still have one though).
I'm sympathetic towards communism, it's full of good ideas, it's just too bad that so few people know about it.
Last edited by lostindasky at May 18, 2010,
#34
well, i have symphaties for socialism too. i was thinking about a tattoo of this symbole too. because when i think of communism, i think about equality. and i think that when you have less social differences, everyone will treat each other way better.
i also wanted that symbole tattoed because communism stands for atheism. and since i am an atheist with socialistic symphaties...
but to answer your question, i don't relate communism with hatred. That's the vision of the American, they gave military and financial help to countries wich were ''threatened'' by communism so those countries wouldn't become communistic. And i think that the relation between communism and hatred is because of the Americans.

sorry if i am speaking incomprehensable english
Last edited by metallica144 at May 18, 2010,
#35
Poll's dichotomy annoys.

I just think Soviet Russia

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#36
Quote by lostindasky
Ideals. It's a US thing to look at communism with such a bad eye, saying it's all totalitarianism and such. I'm not saying all americans think that, but here in Europe, people don't go crazy when you say "communism" or "socialism", because they (usually) know what it is and weren't brainwashed into thinking it's the root of all evil. I've only seen that coming from the US. Here in France we usually think the communist party is a joke party that will never get to power because it's so outdated (yes, we still have one though).
I'm sympathetic towards communism, it's full of good ideas, it's just too bad that so few people know about it.


The reason the US bashes on it, is because it makes it too easy for one person to seize control and corrupt the system. A perfect communist system would be ideal, however, it is impossible to attain such a system because those in power tend to want to stay in power by whatever means neccesary. Humans are fundamentally flawed, a communist system will never work.
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#37
I associate it with a set of ideals I hate.
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#38
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The reason the US bashes on it, is because it makes it too easy for one person to seize control and corrupt the system. A perfect communist system would be ideal, however, it is impossible to attain such a system because those in power tend to want to stay in power by whatever means neccesary. Humans are fundamentally flawed, a communist system will never work.


I completely agree with you. Except when you say it's the reason why the US bashes on it, I think it's pure propaganda aimed to make people believe capitalism is the best system. As evoked by someone else, the US has always tried to crush communist rise everywhere in the world because it's incompatible with global trade and making profit.
#39
Alot of people associate it with the first option, if you get this you're going to get branded and hated by many people.

It would make it impossible to get some jobs, although if its out of site it wouldn't really matter.

Either way it's still a really awkward tattoo to get.
#40
Quote by lostindasky
I completely agree with you. Except when you say it's the reason why the US bashes on it, I think it's pure propaganda aimed to make people believe capitalism is the best system. As evoked by someone else, the US has always tried to crush communist rise everywhere in the world because it's incompatible with global trade and making profit.

It makes for a nice boogeyman everybody can be afraid of, too. That's useful if you're trying to get elected.

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