Poll: is this rape?
Poll Options
View poll results: is this rape?
Yes, that scumbag took advantage of her and raped her
188 43%
No, marijuana can't impair judgement like that. She knew what was happening
52 12%
I don't know, they were both impaired..
87 20%
I smoke weed and can handle myself, but not everyone that smokes can
30 7%
That guy deserves a high five. She could of easily stopped it anytime
28 6%
*Pervert smile* :)
49 11%
Voters: 434.
Page 1 of 6
#1
The following story isnt mine, I copied and pasted it from another forum. Me and my friends were arguing about this the other day. Is this rape?

"This girl came over yesterday. We basically just smoked weed all day and chilled out. After ripping the bong a few times with her I could tell she was totally baked because she got real quiet and went to lie down on my couch. Then I went and made my move. She didnt say no and wasn't telling me to stop so I assume she was digging it. Plus she's a friend of mine and we were both really baked. Still, it's gonna be awkward next time I see her.."

Basically the question I'm posing is: Can marijuana impair judgemnent the same way alcohol does? Do you think it can make someone more accepting of sex while under the influence?

Thoughts?
#2
Yes. It's rape the same way giving her roofies would be rape. She was taken advantage of in a vulnerable position.

If not rape, it's still sexual assault.

I know that's you, TS.
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#3
poll?

EDIT: ah there it is
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#4
I think that would count as rape. He waited until she was too stoned to know what was going on, that is pretty rapey in my opinion.

I agree with colgate total, if it was a different drug they were taking like GBH the discussion would be completely different. He still took advantage of someone who was in no state to make a decision about it.
Last edited by Mistress_Ibanez at May 19, 2010,
#5
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
I think that would count as rape. He waited until she was too stoned to know what was going on, that is pretty rapey in my opinion.

I agree with colgate total, if it was a different drug they were taking like GBH the discussion would be completely different. He still took advantage of someone who was in no state to make a decision about it.

+200
#6
She was intoxicated and not of clear mind. Therefore, she would be considered incapable of making rational decisions. Yes, it's rape. It would be the same case were she drunk.
#7
Quote by black_chamber
The following story isnt mine, I copied and pasted it from another forum. Me and my friends were arguing about this the other day. Is this rape?

"This girl came over yesterday. We basically just smoked weed all day and chilled out. After ripping the bong a few times with her I could tell she was totally baked because she got real quiet and went to lie down on my couch. Then I went and made my move. She didnt say no and wasn't telling me to stop so I assume she was digging it. Plus she's a friend of mine and we were both really baked. Still, it's gonna be awkward next time I see her.."

Basically the question I'm posing is: Can marijuana impair judgemnent the same way alcohol does? Do you think it can make someone more accepting of sex while under the influence?

Thoughts?

Rape, no, because he was equally baked and if her judgment was impaired, then his was too. And she accepted to smoke weed head-to-head with him in the first place, so it's rather hard to defend the rape hypothesis.

But it's definitely going to be very ackward.
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#9
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
I think that would count as rape. He waited until she was too stoned to know what was going on, that is pretty rapey in my opinion.

I agree with colgate total, if it was a different drug they were taking like GBH the discussion would be completely different. He still took advantage of someone who was in no state to make a decision about it.



+1

Some nice mates you have there TS.

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#10
Quote by Astyan
Rape, no, because he was equally baked and if her judgment was impaired, then his was too. And she accepted to smoke weed head-to-head with him in the first place, so it's rather hard to defend the rape hypothesis.

But it's definitely going to be very ackward.


What? How does "I agree to smoke weed with you" translate to "I agree to let you take advantage of me when we're under the influence"?
#11
Quote by LordBishek
She was intoxicated and not of clear mind. Therefore, she would be considered incapable of making rational decisions. Yes, it's rape. It would be the same case were she drunk.


Morally we would probably all agree it was rape but if she tried to report it she would probably get laughed out of the police station or have her credibility torn to shreds in court for allowing herself to get into that condition in the first place

I would definitely consider it rape, but the guy would certainly get away with it.
#12
Quote by Astyan
Rape, no, because he was equally baked and if her judgment was impaired, then his was too. And she accepted to smoke weed head-to-head with him in the first place, so it's rather hard to defend the rape hypothesis.

But it's definitely going to be very ackward.


If I'm drunk and decide I want to kill you, is it still murder? I mean, my judgment was impaired.
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#13
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Morally we would probably all agree it was rape but if she tried to report it she would probably get laughed out of the police station or have her credibility torn to shreds in court for allowing herself to get into that condition in the first place

I would definitely consider it rape, but the guy would certainly get away with it.


I said it was rape, I didn't say it was illegal
#14
What did he do though? If he covered her mouth with his left palm and anally penetrated her, it might count as rape.

And regarding whether marijuana impairs judgement: It depends. Was she an experienced stoner or a newbie? That matters because an experienced stoner would be more likely to handle a situation like that on her feet even if she was baked. (If she found it un-agreeable, of course)
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#15
Quote by black_chamber
The following story isnt mine....


So seriously TS, why did you do something like that >.>?

That was a real dickmove of you.
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#17
Quote by Colgate Total
If I'm drunk and decide I want to kill you, is it still murder? I mean, my judgment was impaired.

No, it's manslaughter.
#19
Damn it! Stop lurking other threads, I didn't want that getting into the pit!
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#20
It may just be accidental wording, but whenever I see or hear the term "went to make my move," I generally feel it's premeditated and therefore makes me think that in this scenario, the bloke may have gotten her round with the final aim of gettin' jiggy. In which case, this would be rape.
#21
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
There's legal rape?


Of course.

I'd consider that rape is ALWAYS unethical, but not always illegal. For example, the case where somebody is pressured into saying "yes". They don't want to do anything, but for whatever reason, they consent.
#22
The laws are favourable towards women in this kind of situation. The woman may not have said no, but because she didn't specifically say the other party could have her wicked way with her due to the apparently amazing time they had beforehand, I could be deemed as rape.
#24
Either way the hypothetical guy is a total douche if he needs to drug women.
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#25
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
There's legal rape?


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#26
Quote by LordBishek
What? How does "I agree to smoke weed with you" translate to "I agree to let you take advantage of me when we're under the influence"?

I never said that, and I'm tempted to call this a clever trolling attempt. Beware, I'm not baked!

It doesn't translate into "I agree to let you take advantage of me when we're under the influence", obviously. But it does translate into "I know we're going to be two very good male and female friends smoking tons of weed all day, and it may get out of control at some point". Also, I find that people are quick to assume the guy maliciously planned to wait before sexually assaulting his friend, don't forget he was also intoxicated (although obviously not enough to lose all focus... harharhar).

I'm kind of playing the devil's advocate, here.
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#27
Quote by Thepoison92
No, it's manslaughter.


In the English law of homicide, manslaughter is a less serious offence than murder, the differential being between levels of fault based on the mens rea (Latin for "guilty mind"). ...

Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being.

Tell me, which one of those fits better?

I plan to kill him? Check.
Guilty mind? Check.
Murder? Check.
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#28
I used to smoke it all the time and i was always capable of controlling myself in any situation. Even when totally baked. It's NOTHING like being drunk.
#29
Quote by Deliriumbassist
It may just be accidental wording, but whenever I see or hear the term "went to make my move," I generally feel it's premeditated and therefore makes me think that in this scenario, the bloke may have gotten her round with the final aim of gettin' jiggy. In which case, this would be rape.


Yeah, true, I don't think that's necessarily the case here, just a really shit phrase used by blokes.
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#30
Quote by LordBishek
Of course.

I'd consider that rape is ALWAYS unethical, but not always illegal. For example, the case where somebody is pressured into saying "yes". They don't want to do anything, but for whatever reason, they consent.


Hm. Didn't think of that.

Anyway there's loads of factors that make a jury less likely to care about a woman's rape story. Sad but true. Things like being drunk, getting stoned with a friend without being cautious that he might get rapey, wearing a skirt, walking in a dark alley... it's crazy the means people will take to victimise women for things that were outside their control. Pretty insulting to men as well, as if wearing a skirt on a night out will turn men into uncontrollable rapists who must be hidden from at all times

Quote by SpartanTHC
I used to smoke it all the time and i was always capable of controlling myself in any situation. Even when totally baked. It's NOTHING like being drunk.


Well good for you. I personally have no idea what I'm doing when I'm totally baked. Everyone handles things differently, and, although it's extremely vague, as a general rule men are faster at processing drugs than women. It's why you see more girls vomiting in the streets on nights out
Last edited by Mistress_Ibanez at May 19, 2010,
#32
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Surely, Pumped Up Sex Offender, you would already be aware of this? Or would that stop it from being an offence?
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#33
Quote by Astyan
I never said that, and I'm tempted to call this a clever trolling attempt. Beware, I'm not baked!

It doesn't translate into "I agree to let you take advantage of me when we're under the influence", obviously. But it does translate into "I know we're going to be two very good male and female friends smoking tons of weed all day, and it may get out of control at some point". Also, I find that people are quick to assume the guy maliciously planned to wait before sexually assaulting his friend, don't forget he was also intoxicated (although obviously not enough to lose all focus... harharhar).

I'm kind of playing the devil's advocate, here.


If his judgement was impaired, the onus is on him to make sure he doesn't do anything fucking stupid in the first place. If you can't handle your drugs, don't use them.
#34
Quote by LordBishek
If his judgement was impaired, the onus is on him to make sure he doesn't do anything fucking stupid in the first place. If you can't handle your drugs, don't use them.

Maybe she thought she was making a move too? The onus should not always be on the guy.
-

#35
Quote by Deliriumbassist
It may just be accidental wording, but whenever I see or hear the term "went to make my move," I generally feel it's premeditated and therefore makes me think that in this scenario, the bloke may have gotten her round with the final aim of gettin' jiggy. In which case, this would be rape.

That's how I read it too. And just read the rest. The fact that he's worried about it shows that even he realised he was doing something wrong. It may or may not have been rape, depending on whether or not she was able to resist or even fully understand what was going on, which is something we can't know. Either way, it was obviously still a bad thing to do.
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#36
Quote by LordBishek
If his judgement was impaired, the onus is on him to make sure he doesn't do anything fucking stupid in the first place. If you can't handle your drugs, don't use them.

100% agreed. But then, she should've been more careful in the first place.

I'm merely stating what the girl would be told if she tried to file a complaint at the Police station, here.
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#38
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Hm. Didn't think of that.

Anyway there's loads of factors that make a jury less likely to care about a woman's rape story. Sad but true. Things like being drunk, getting stoned with a friend without being cautious that he might get rapey, wearing a skirt, walking in a dark alley... it's crazy the means people will take to victimise women for things that were outside their control. Pretty insulting to men as well, as if wearing a skirt on a night out will turn men into uncontrollable rapists who must be hidden from at all times.


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Last edited by LordBishek at May 19, 2010,
#39
Quote by Colgate Total
In the English law of homicide, manslaughter is a less serious offence than murder, the differential being between levels of fault based on the mens rea (Latin for "guilty mind"). ...

Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being.

Tell me, which one of those fits better?

I plan to kill him? Check.
Guilty mind? Check.
Murder? Check.


You said 'If I'm drunk and I decide I want to kill you' implying that you were already drunk and thus judgement impaired when you made the decision to kill him.

You might believe that it's murder but in court your lawyer would make the argument that you were drunk and didn't know what you were doing so at the most you should get charged with manslaughter.
#40
One can safely say that from the facts of the situation, the act would not amount to rape (in the legal sense of the term) as both parties were inebriated.

If it could be proven that the act was premeditated and the actor not inebriated while doing what he did, then its a different story.
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