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#1
Im going to be in a cover band and have been researching what gear the bands used. Supposedly Noel gallagher from oasis used to run a small solid state marshall MG15FX through the clean channel of a voxAC30. I loved his sound roundabout this time. Can you run an amp through an amp?? sounds weird to me.
#2
What? Where did you read that?!
It smells suspiciously like bull to me.

Running amps through amps is never really a good idea, something could well get broken.
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#4
The only way this is safe to do is with an attenuator. You run the speaker out of one amp into an attenuator and bring it back down to around line level, then run that into the second amp... But I can't think of any reason you would do it the way you describe... The whole point of reamping like this is to get the nastiest, most overdriven tone possible out of the first amp, then reproduce it cleanly and at reasonable volume using the second amp. So if anything you'd want a smaller tube amp into a big solid state amp, not a small SS into a big tube.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#6
It's not the best of ideas, but it is possible - I remember reading one spot the Kinks guitarist (Dave Davies, I think) ran a small lil' 10watt practice amp through his ac30 'cause he liked the other amp's sound but it wasn't loud enough. That same article also said he stabbed a knitting needle into the ac30's speaker to up the distortion, but don't try that one at home, kids
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#7
Pretty sure amps arent designed to take a powered signal, besides active pups anyway.

I think probably running out through the headphone jack would be okay, without cranking it up, dont qoute me on it though.

Why would you want to do that anyway.
#8
Quote by beckyjc
Pretty sure amps arent designed to take a powered signal, besides active pups anyway.

I think probably running out through the headphone jack would be okay, without cranking it up, dont qoute me on it though.

Why would you want to do that anyway.

Ya headphone jack would be ok. Going from the speaker outs into another amp is a big no-no, though.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#9
I dunno if he still does because he seems to always be changing his rig around but Brent Hinds from Mastodon was running a '76 JMP MKII into a Vintage Modern last May when I saw them on tour. Its called "slaving" and its not done very often.


I've also read in owners manuals that you can run a line out from one amp into the input of another amp - never tried it though and to be honest it doesn't sound very safe lol.
#10
Quote by Wrst_Plyr_Evr
I highly doubt that a professional musician would run an MG through anything. Albeit, iirc, Wayne Static runs straight into an MG100. I think. I forget the model. I remember reading "MG" and I was like

I Highly doubt that Noel Gallagher thinks like that or is very concerned about his image as a professional musician. He'll play whatever the hell he wants if it gives him the sound he wants. Also, Oasis wasn't always a huge band.
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#11
i tried pluging my fender frontman 15g into an old amp from an old workshop near here (they dont do amps anymore ) it just went like whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu nasty i tell you dont try it unless you want special effects in your room (lighting , sparkling and bombs )
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#12
Quote by The^Unforgiven
I Highly doubt that Noel Gallagher thinks like that or is very concerned about his image as a professional musician. He'll play whatever the hell he wants if it gives him the sound he wants. Also, Oasis wasn't always a huge band.


This is true, especially if the dude from the kinks did it.
TS, I wouldn't really recommend it if that's what you're planning it. Just get a decent distortion pedal.
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#13
I've done it before, no problem, as long as it's the headphones out, because the impedance is matching to the guitar input of a tube amp.


Should be no problems.


This is the way to get power amp tube distortion, while using a preamp that is solid state or modeling.


It is no different from running your MFX into the input of your amp..


Like all have said, do not take the cab/speaker output to the input of an amp, that is a big no no.
#14
Here's the proper link...
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/article/2472-the-complete-noel-gallagher-oasis-gear-guide.html

WTF....I don't believe that for a second. It's just some marketing ploy by the company.

I mean, c'mon.
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#15
Quote by i_am_metalhead

I've also read in owners manuals that you can run a line out from one amp into the input of another amp - never tried it though and to be honest it doesn't sound very safe lol.

+1

Basically if both amps have a loop it can be done.
Last edited by TheQuailman at May 19, 2010,
#16
Just the other day, I ran my solid state Marshall 3005 Lead 12 Micro Stack 12w head into my Sovtek Mig 50... via the Marshall's headphone out and then the line out on the front directly into the input of the Mig.

(I have read that several unnamed artists in the 80's supposedly converted the Lead 12 into a rack preamp... FWIW I don't believe everything I read )

Now, granted signal strengths are different, but isn't a distortion pedal a form of a solid state preamp?
Last edited by irnmadn88 at May 19, 2010,
#17
Haven't read through the thread yet, so I don't know if it's been mentioned, but yes, it's called "slaving". I'm pretty sure slaving an amp is when you take the FX loop send of one amp and put it into the FX return of another amp, and then mic the second amp, so you're getting the preamp sound of, say a Dual Rectifier, and the poweramp sound of, say a JCM 800.
#18
^Slaving is different from that website specifies.

Quote by irnmadn88
Just the other day, I ran my solid state Marshall 3005 Lead 12 Micro Stack 12w head into my Sovtek Mig 50... via the Marshall's headphone out and then the line out on the front directly into the input of the Mig.

(I have read that several unnamed artists in the 80's supposedly converted the Lead 12 into a rack preamp... FWIW I don't believe everything I read )

Now, granted signal strengths are different, but isn't a distortion pedal a form of a solid state preamp?

No, it's need to be at line level. There's needs to be a dummy load between the first amp's power amp and the second amp's preamp, to bring it down to line level.

Pedals are always at line level, an amp's output is very different. Your headphone output or line out isn't the same thing as an amp's output. That is line level.
#19
^ So you are saying that the headphone out AND the line out of the Lead 12 are at line level?
#21
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there is slaving (running effects send of one to effects return of the other, effectively using one's preamp and the other's power amp only) then there is reamping (using an attenuator to run from the speaker out of one amp to the guitar input of another.) Aren't these two different methods, used for two different purposes?
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#22
Quote by forsaknazrael
Well, the headphone out is different, since it's for headphones. It's probably attenuated a bit, too.


So in the interest of the TS, a solid state practice amp could be connected to a tube amp IF using a line level output from the solid state practice amp into the input of a tube amp?
#23
^Yes, it could. I see no benefits to it though.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#25
In my case, the Mig 50 has to be cranked to get it to break up.

So I was experimenting with the Marshall head used to see what it sounded like with the gain dimed connected to the Mig.

Now, I am not that informed but based on my limited understanding and being that the Mig 50 is a non master volume amp, the Marshall into the front of the Mig 50 was either overdriving the 12ax7 preamp tubes or it wasn't and it was hitting the 6L6 power tubes instead (or maybe both) but in any case, the sound was huge.

(And is this really any different than using a rack mount Chandler Tube Overdrive other than the Chandler has a 12at7 in it and line level and/or instrument outs?)
Last edited by irnmadn88 at May 19, 2010,
#26
Quote by irnmadn88
(And is this really any different than using a rack mount Chandler Tube Overdrive other than the Chandler has a 12at7 in it and line level and/or instrument outs?)

No, but those are the reasons the Chandler is designed to do this and the MG is not... Just because something is possible doesn't make it a good idea.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#27
Quote by tubetime86
No, but those are the reasons the Chandler is designed to do this and the MG is not... Just because something is possible doesn't make it a good idea.


True.

But isn't that the essence of rock music as we know it? I mean, distortion wasn't exactly planned for in the beginning was it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distortion_(music)
#28
Quote by irnmadn88
True.

But isn't that the essence of rock music as we know it? I mean, distortion wasn't exactly planned for in the beginning was it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distortion_(music)

Absolutely it is... But again, that doesn't mean anything you can do is worth doing. By all means experiment, try new stuff, and if it sounds good use it... But some things you can pretty much assume aren't going to sound good, at least in conventional terms.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#29
Quote by tubetime86
Absolutely it is... But again, that doesn't mean anything you can do is worth doing. By all means experiment, try new stuff, and if it sounds good use it... But some things you can pretty much assume aren't going to sound good, at least in conventional terms.


You win. The TS was using an MG.
#30
Quote by Dolphinmusic
Ampwise, [before the first album] Noel had a quite interesting setup: a Roland Space Echo RE-201 into a small Marshall Solid-State Combo and then into a Vox AC-30... Noel loved, at the time, the crunchy sound of a good Marshall amp distortion, so he plugged it into the clean channel of a Vox AC-30...possibly a late 70s version with no reverb.


concerning the amps this picture only confirms the Marshall-into-Vox suggestion. guessing that he connected the Marshall's line out to the Vox's input. I'm pretty sure Marshall MG series were solid state so I'd be curious to find out how good this "crunchy sound of a good Marhall amp distortion" actually is... also, check this great picture - there's a Fender head + cabinet with a Marshall cabinet below, a Fender Blues Junior combo probably into another Marshall 4x12 and in the middle there's a Vox head on top of his rack effects... pretty cool set up

Quote by Korzack
It's not the best of ideas, but it is possible - I remember reading one spot the Kinks guitarist (Dave Davies, I think) ran a small lil' 10watt practice amp through his ac30 'cause he liked the other amp's sound but it wasn't loud enough. That same article also said he stabbed a knitting needle into the ac30's speaker to up the distortion, but don't try that one at home, kids


I also read that, although I think he sliced the speaker of the mini amp and loved the sound so much he wanted to amplify it through the vox.

concerning the headphones outs and line outs, I thought both were taken from the pre amp out, which turns the guitar signal into a 'workable' signal which then can be amplified by the power amp? either the ratio between both or the pre amp can cause distortion IIRC...

just my $0.02, as usually...
#32
Quote by tubetime86
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there is slaving (running effects send of one to effects return of the other, effectively using one's preamp and the other's power amp only) then there is reamping (using an attenuator to run from the speaker out of one amp to the guitar input of another.) Aren't these two different methods, used for two different purposes?




this guy obviously knows his ****

#33
i think this is BS.



that is the image they base this off of i guess. looks to me like the headstock conveniently covers the actual marshall model, but it def doesn't look like a MG50 (or any other SS marshall i know of). not to mention MG series wasn't even out then anyway. maybe VS's or old lead series are what he is using. i had both a marshall lead 12 AND a marshall VS15, which is why i own NO marshall products now, and nothing impressive is going on with that amp. the grill speaks of vintage or high end origin.

also, there is nothing to suggest he runs one amp into the other, this would be extremely hard to make sound good and a much cheaper/easier/better way of doing it is to just run a distortion pedal (which is what you are doing running when you run "a small Marshall Solid-State Combo... into a Vox AC-30". basically there is no reason for doing this. the more obvious conclusion is he is just running a split signal into both.

no, this company is just trying to sell you a crazy idea the hawked most likely.
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Last edited by gumbilicious at May 20, 2010,
#34
^Ya that site is just trying to say he uses products they sell... That seems clear to me. Also that looks like it may be a Studio 15 like gregs1020 has, though I'm not sure since he retolexed his and put on a new grill.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#35
Quote by tubetime86
^Ya that site is just trying to say he uses products they sell... That seems clear to me. Also that looks like it may be a Studio 15 like gregs1020 has, though I'm not sure since he retolexed his and put on a new grill.


they had a real slick way of showing the graphic and implying a MG50 was in his setup, but really, the just say he had a 'solid state' marshall in his setup. so they just threw in the modern marshall SS as an 'analog' for whatever they thought he used. technically they didn't say he played with an MG50, but they heavily implied it very much so.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
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#36
Quote by irnmadn88
In my case, the Mig 50 has to be cranked to get it to break up.

So I was experimenting with the Marshall head used to see what it sounded like with the gain dimed connected to the Mig.

Now, I am not that informed but based on my limited understanding and being that the Mig 50 is a non master volume amp, the Marshall into the front of the Mig 50 was either overdriving the 12ax7 preamp tubes or it wasn't and it was hitting the 6L6 power tubes instead (or maybe both) but in any case, the sound was huge.

(And is this really any different than using a rack mount Chandler Tube Overdrive other than the Chandler has a 12at7 in it and line level and/or instrument outs?)


if you ran into the input of the mig then it was the preamp distorting, if it was into an fx loop it was the power amp.

ive actually done the whole running one amp's out into another amp's in. sounds gnarrrrly. but i wouldnt do it on anything you arent willing to kill by doing that. i used a battery powered amp into an mg10. sounds pretty sick for a synth distortion imo.
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#37
Quote by tubetime86
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there is slaving (running effects send of one to effects return of the other, effectively using one's preamp and the other's power amp only) then there is reamping (using an attenuator to run from the speaker out of one amp to the guitar input of another.) Aren't these two different methods, used for two different purposes?

The amp needs to have a SLAVE IN/SLAVE OUT or LINE IN/LINE OUT sockets inorder for running one amp into another. If its an amp head going into another amp head then you connect the SLAVE/LINE OUT of the first amp to the SLAVE/LINE IN of the second amp. For amp heads its important that both of them are having a load(i.e.speaker cabinet/load box) connected otherwise the first amp will be broken. Anyways, this allows you to have the preamp of the the first amp replacing the preamp section of the second amp. Its the same for combos too provided the Slave/Line options are available.

The effects loop is different from the above. Here you either run a fx unit in a side chain with the preamp or you put it in between the preamp & power amp section.

I've no idea on reamping so can't say much about that..
#38
Quote by Wrst_Plyr_Evr
I highly doubt that a professional musician would run an MG through anything. Albeit, iirc, Wayne Static runs straight into an MG100. I think. I forget the model. I remember reading "MG" and I was like

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#39
Quote by dahelunover
The amp needs to have a SLAVE IN/SLAVE OUT or LINE IN/LINE OUT sockets inorder for running one amp into another. If its an amp head going into another amp head then you connect the SLAVE/LINE OUT of the first amp to the SLAVE/LINE IN of the second amp. For amp heads its important that both of them are having a load(i.e.speaker cabinet/load box) connected otherwise the first amp will be broken. Anyways, this allows you to have the preamp of the the first amp replacing the preamp section of the second amp. Its the same for combos too provided the Slave/Line options are available.

The effects loop is different from the above. Here you either run a fx unit in a side chain with the preamp or you put it in between the preamp & power amp section.

I've no idea on reamping so can't say much about that..

Amps rarely have a 'slave in' or 'slave out' also 'line ins' and 'line outs' are different. Slaving means using the preamp of one and the power amp of the other. This is done with the effects loop of both. You clearly have some misconceptions about both amp slaving and effects loops, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to correct what I had said, which was correct by the way.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#40
Quote by tubetime86
Amps rarely have a 'slave in' or 'slave out' also 'line ins' and 'line outs' are different. Slaving means using the preamp of one and the power amp of the other. This is done with the effects loop of both. You clearly have some misconceptions about both amp slaving and effects loops, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to correct what I had said, which was correct by the way.

The part i highlighted in bold is proper.
Modern amps have the word "Line" used on them instead of "Slave". Example my Laney Gh50l compared to a Laney VH100R. The GH50L says "Slave" on the back while the VH100R says "Line" on its back. Simple thing, but can get confusing if you aren't used to seeing them.
Using only the effects loop on the amp will never take the preamp out of an amp. You are only either introducing a signal between the preamp & power amp or adding additional signal along with your preamp into the power amp(this way the preamp signal is not coloured at all). This is the purpose of an effects loop on an amp. Try researching on google if you want to, I know it since I'm used to it daily.
Last edited by dahelunover at May 20, 2010,
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