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#1
I bought a '93 fender blues deville from someone yesterday and took it to practice just now. I've heard people say that they've never need it past 3 to keep up with a band, and that fenders have amazing cleans.
I had to crank mine to 3/4 just to hear over the drums. I dunno if anyone else has had this problem but i think it's a bit odd =/

Anyone got any ideas what it could be ?
he said the valves could do with a change, but would this have anything to do with the volume?

Also, is there anything i can do, so that it stays clean when i crank it up ?

Thanks for everyones help in advance

Ross!
#2
Yup, that sounds like old tubes (valves, damn brits.)
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#5
Quote by Rossmillertarn!
nice one, i just didn't wanna fork the money out for them, then realise it wasn't the tubes haha
thanks!

Ya well its not for sure, but given what he said, the symptoms and their consistency with bad tubes I'd say its extremely likely.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#7
You do know that you can mix and match the tubes... Power tubes you'll want matched up, but preamp tubes can be used to shape your tone.

James
#8
i didn't realise that no.
do i just have to test em and see what sounds best, or is there like a common mix of em ?
i'm a total n00b when it comes to valves lol
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#9
This didn't sound good...

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38196&sid=61e8e507cc9b88fecc72e9ac98dfb49c

I think you need:
3 x 12AX7 preamp tubes
2 x 6L6 power tubes (60 Watts) (A matched set of Power tubes.)
Last edited by BurstBucker Pro at May 20, 2010,
#10
sweet, i just ordered a new set last night so ill let you know how it goes when i change em
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#11
I would have sent you a link to the page but it's one of those homemade funky PDF to HTML interface websites...

http://www.blueguitar.org/

But this is basically what I was trying to convey, even thought this is for the Peavey Classic 30 if I'm not mistaken the preamp section is of the same design, I could be wrong, but regardless the information herein should still be of some value.

As for which brands and styles of 12AX7 tubes that work best in the Classic 30, let us address the V3 driver tube first. If you are looking for clean guitar tones from the Normal channel, you will want to use a driver tube that is fairly transparent. I have found that the stock Chinese tubes that ship with the amp work well as driver tubes; for an even better sound, check out a Golden Dragon 12AX7 or Ruby Tubes 7025STR: they are very clean and transparent tubes with a little more gain than the stock tubes.
The guitar signal goes directly to the first stage of V1 in all modes so its selection is very critical to the sound you are looking for. If you use the Normal channel a lot, you should choose a tube which sounds well in this mode. For crystal clarity (at the expense of lower gain), you can use a 5751 tube. I personally prefer the Sovtek 12AX7WBT+ because it produces a warmer tone, very similar to a vintage Telefunken. For V2 (the 2 gain stages added in overdrive mode), I prefer the Sovtek 12AX7WB, which has lower gain than the WBT+. This tube is bypassed in the normal mode, so you can try out different tubes here to decide what works best for you in the overdrive mode.
If you use the Classic 30 strictly in overdrive mode, you can try out higher gain tubes in all 3 positions, with one suggestion here. I always thought of changing preamp tubes as being like changing spark plugs in your car: decide which brand and style works best for you and replace them all with the same type. In trying out different tubes, what I found is that if all tubes are the same, it exaggerates the tonal characteristics of that particular tube. Perhaps that is exactly what you are looking for, but you can generally get a fuller sound if you mix and match different tubes. You may want to bring your amp down to your local music store and see if they will let you try out different combinations of preamp tubes.


James
Last edited by IronFeliks at May 20, 2010,
#12
ah sweet!
thanks a lot man, that really helped haha. i'll bear that in mind for next time lol
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#13
Right, so i just got my new tubes, slapped em in. and it's really really quiet, like i can turn it upto full and play with my ear beside it. so i called the company where i bought em from, and they said my amp needs biasing. so now i have to wait until sunday to take it in for repair, spend yet more money on it, and i bought the tubes which are reccommended on the inside of the amp. ****ing valve amps!
is it easy to bias amps yourself ? or has anyone done it before ?
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#14
could really use help asap, got a gig this week
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#15
I could be wrong... But I think that biasing thing is a load of bull. Biasing affects sound quality a bit, but as far as I know it doesn't affect volume.

Also, assuming you used matched tubes biasing isn't even really needed. Its a good idea, but not absolutely necessary.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#16
yeah, i was thinking that, cos i've read loads of places that this amp doesnt even have a knob to bias it with, so i really dunno tbh!
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#18
trust me, it's nothing to do with the settings, they're the same as before i changed the tubes =/
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#20
Hmmm, kinda sounds like bad tubes. Even though you just bought them : / Hopefully it's only the tubes and nothing more serious. Did you know the person you bought it from? How long did you play it for before buying?
Ibanez RGR421EXFM >> Maxon OD808 >> BOSS NS-2 >> Peavey 5150 212
#21
Quote by DroptuneD
Hmmm, kinda sounds like bad tubes. Even though you just bought them : / Hopefully it's only the tubes and nothing more serious. Did you know the person you bought it from? How long did you play it for before buying?

Read the OP though... This is the same problem he had before buying new tubes... Not a good sign. That in conjunction with that other thread someone linked with a similar issue has me thinking this may be a common fault in these amps.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#22
Best advice I can give is take it to an experienced tech to have him/her do a "once over" on the whole amp. Hopefully you didn't get taken on the amp
Ibanez RGR421EXFM >> Maxon OD808 >> BOSS NS-2 >> Peavey 5150 212
#23
http://www.hotroxuk.com/5881-6l6wxt-sovtek-standard-base-13553-0.html

two of those

http://www.hotroxuk.com/groove-tube-12au7-13203-0.html

three of those

bought the AU7s because it said loads of clean headroom, which is what i'm after
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#25
I just put the old tubes back in,

it had a 'sovtek 7025/12ax7' in A
a marshall 'xwk4' in B
and another ax7 in C but witht the fender logo on it,

then two 6l6s in the power amp bit
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#26
^Yup. You can throw one or maybe two 12au7s in certain spots to clean stuff up, but you don't just replace them all with 12au7s.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#27
Quote by forsaknazrael
No, no, no....12AU7s have 20% of the gain of a 12AX7.

THAT is the problem. Why did you get Au7s when everyone here said to get 12AX7s?



it said it had more clean headroom, which if i got one with more gain i wouldnt get the cleans i wanted. i didnt realise it effected the volume =/
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#28
Quote by Rossmillertarn!
I just put the old tubes back in,

it had a 'sovtek 7025/12ax7' in A
a marshall 'xwk4' in B
and another ax7 in C but witht the fender logo on it,

then two 6l6s in the power amp bit

Results?

You can use the new 6L6s you bought.

Quote by Rossmillertarn!
it said it had more clean headroom, which if i got one with more gain i wouldnt get the cleans i wanted. i didnt realise it effected the volume =/

I don't think anyone ever told you this...but..GAIN = VOLUME...
#29
Quote by tubetime86
^Yup. You can throw one or maybe two 12au7s in certain spots to clean stuff up, but you don't just replace them all with 12au7s.


where should i put the au7 for cleans then, and get the volume back ?
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#30
Quote by forsaknazrael
Results?

You can use the new 6L6s you bought.


I don't think anyone ever told you this...but..GAIN = VOLUME...


Nah, gain and volume are different, i have a degree in music tech so i thihk i should know the difference haha
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#32
well i gathered it was gain asin distortion because whenever i turned it up, it distorted, so i guessed it was that with valves, anyway rather than bickering haha, how can i get my cleans, and my volume ?
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#34
Quote by Rossmillertarn!
Nah, gain and volume are different, i have a degree in music tech so i thihk i should know the difference haha

Then you should know that gain, in technical terms, is volume. The reason for your misconception is the fact that increasing the gain, in certain parts of an amp's circuit, increases the level of clipping, or distortion. For that reason amps sometimes have knobs labeled 'gain' that increase distortion. The thing is, however, these knobs DO in fact increase the gain (volume) they just do it in a spot where the end result is an increase in distortion and not really volume.

So:
Gain = Volume
More gain/more volume in the right spot = More distortion
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#35
Quote by forsaknazrael
Get 12AX7s.


i just took some out though.... the reason i changed em was cos they distorted!
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#36
Quote by tubetime86
Then you should know that gain, in technical terms, is volume. The reason for your misconception is the fact that increasing the gain, in certain parts of an amp's circuit, increases the level of clipping, or distortion. For that reason amps sometimes have knobs labeled 'gain' that increase distortion. The thing is, however, these knobs DO in fact increase the gain (volume) they just do it in a spot where the end result is an increase in distortion and not really volume.

So:
Gain = Volume
More gain/more volume in the right spot = More distortion



my amp doesnt have a master, just a volume control so when it's loud with the AX7s, it's distorted i bought lower gain valves to stop this, so what can i do?!
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#38
Quote by forsaknazrael
Results?


it's still louder, but distorted.....
just as it was before no surprise...
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

#40
Quote by forsaknazrael
No, they were bad. That amp should have plenty of clean headroom with GOOD tubes.

Try one 12AU7 in V1, and the rest with 12AX7s. Keep rotating the 12AX7s until you find a good one.

AND once more, what are your amp's settings?



ok thanks, i'll try it when i get back home.
i thought the distortion was a charachteristic of the 12ax7

um, bass on 10 o clock
mid at 12
treble at 2
presence at 12
then volume just as i need it
Gear:-
Mesa Single Rectifier
Marshall DSL50 (In the process of modding!)
Fender 2x12 Deville
Marshall 1960 (V30's)
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson SG Special
Fender 'Marcus Miller' Jazz Bass

My Band
Juturna

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