#1
Hey guys, i'm a total noob when it comes to speakers and such and i was wondering if i had a problem....

well, My half stack is a Peavey Transtube Supreme Head with a Peavey 412ms cab and i use an MXR Fullbore Metal Pedal with it. When i have the amp really loud-ish it really tears your ears apart. the highs really hurt my ears. but on my friends Line 6 stack, when he has it up, it doesnt hurt at all.

could someone explain this to me please, thanks
#2
Do you play at low volumes with settings you like then when you crank it, NOT change the settings?
#3
^ This


You just probably just need to EQ the amp at the volume level you want.
#4
Yeah, i just put it to a setting, then crank it i suppose. is there a correct way that im not doin?
#5
At low volumes the amp is not pushing the speakers that hard therefore not as much of the frequency response of the amp is coming through the speaker. So if at low volume, you have the treble up in order to hear it, when you crank the amp, that treble is going to be VERY present in what you hear. So you need to adjust the EQ for the cranked volume.

Now you have at least two settings to remember... low volume EQ and high volume EQ.

Think of it like the tap on your sink. Close it, no water. Open it more water. Typically, the pressure on the line stays the same, just more comes out. (In this example, the tap is the EQ knob, and the water pressure is the amp volume knob.)

Now change the amount of pressure on the water line (volume knob), and you get even more drastic changes in how much water comes out with the same amount of opening and closing of the tap (EQ knob).

(Disclaimer: this is not exactly plumbing nomenclature but used for illustration purposes.)
#6
Quote by SarwTheGreat
Hey guys, i'm a total noob when it comes to speakers and such and i was wondering if i had a problem....

why do you mention speakers so specifically here, but not anywhere else? why do you believe this is a speaker problem? or is that statement kinda a blind stab and 'speakers' are a metaphor for the mysterious forces that change tone?

also, 'problem' is a kinda intense term. lets just say you have an undesirable tone and we don't know what the root cause is.

now, lets peruse the rest of the information we have for our root cause analysis here...

Quote by SarwTheGreat
well, My half stack is a Peavey Transtube Supreme Head with a Peavey 412ms cab and i use an MXR Fullbore Metal Pedal with it. When i have the amp really loud-ish it really tears your ears apart. the highs really hurt my ears. but on my friends Line 6 stack, when he has it up, it doesnt hurt at all.

could someone explain this to me please, thanks


so, you mention speakers above, but the question i intuit is 'why does my friend's line 6 sound better/have a 'flatter' frequency response than my peavey?'

i'd like to know the line 6 model you are comparing it to.

lets see some responses.

Do you play at low volumes with settings you like then when you crank it, NOT change the settings?


that is a pretty confusing question there, but we can kinda get the idea he is asking "Do you lower your 'Treble' EQ knob on the amp when you crank your amp to help alleviate the 'piercing highs'?"

this doesn't address why the TS's question really. at least it offers a solution, sorta

You just probably just need to EQ the amp at the volume level you want.


band wagon response

i say this because it still doesn't address TS's original question, he just parroted the other poster's response in a much more eloquent turn of phrase.

Quote by SarwTheGreat
Yeah, i just put it to a setting, then crank it i suppose. is there a correct way that im not doin?

did you forget your original question or something? or do you not care about an answer?

alright, i'll not even get into the last response because it still doesn't answer TS's original question. and doesn't even do an effective job addressing his concerns.

so, first off lets answer your original question. things do sound different at a higher/lower SPL's. there is studies to describe it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contours

most likely the line 6 takes these into consideration and attenuates the proper frequencies for an effect that is perceived to be more flat ('flat', meaning that high end and low end sound the same at high and low volumes, whereas equal loudness contours show that is not case).

so 'problem' you're having is the peavey will scale the frequency linearly in correlation to the volume and that does not match equal loudness curves for the human ear. that is why high end sound 'piercing' at louder volumes, cuz the equal loudness curve 'flattens' at higher volume.

you 'fix' it as mentioned the madden88 guy, but he never told you directly to "just turn down the treble knob", dunno why.

as a side note, there are also many other random factors that may attribute to the 'piercing highs' problem, but the obvious first step is EQ it, then if that doesn't work you can start looking toward component replacement to improve tone.

edit:
just to address the 'water faucet example above', it is more appropriately analogous to a faucet flowing wide open would be bypassing the tone stack altogether. with the addition of the tone stack water is removed and flow is reduced. as most tone stacks are passive they cant only remove signal, not add to signal. there are active EQ systems though that can amplify, but to accurately describe you would need an actual functioning water pressure/electrical current analogy.

it would sound something like
a closed loop of piping with a pump that pumps in and out sympathetically to the frequency of the input signal. after you know that, then read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_analogy

then read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandpass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLC_circuit

and implement it, that would be an appropriate analogy.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at May 21, 2010,
#7
madden88 guy? I hate pointy football.

As for why I didn't tell him to turn down the treble? The simple answer wouldn't have generated any learning. Call it guided discovery.
#8
Quote by irnmadn88
I hate pointy football.


my bad, i don't like madden either. i see now it is an iron maiden reference.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#9
Gumbilicious, ok i see. Thanks for such a long response. it shows you Care

ok, well i noted this as a speaker problem as yes a "blind stab ". im not sure exactly if its the speakers really, just a dumb guess (hence the "noob" part) the amp model i was talking about was a Line 6 Spider III HD150 with a Peavey Valve king cab.

thanks guys, ill see if editing some things could work.
#10
hmmm, i would have understood if it was a vetta or something. it seems like you have just fallen victim to the aesthetic sound line 6 provides, the III series sounds pretty good to beginners and others who don't have a fully developed ear.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#11
Well, it's not that it nessicarily (im sure i spelled that wrong) sounds better, it's just the fact that the Line 6 didn't hurt my ears like my Peavey did.
#12
Quote by gumbilicious
why do you mention speakers so specifically here, but not anywhere else? why do you believe this is a speaker problem? or is that statement kinda a blind stab and 'speakers' are a metaphor for the mysterious forces that change tone?

also, 'problem' is a kinda intense term. lets just say you have an undesirable tone and we don't know what the root cause is.

now, lets peruse the rest of the information we have for our root cause analysis here...


so, you mention speakers above, but the question i intuit is 'why does my friend's line 6 sound better/have a 'flatter' frequency response than my peavey?'

i'd like to know the line 6 model you are comparing it to.

lets see some responses.


that is a pretty confusing question there, but we can kinda get the idea he is asking "Do you lower your 'Treble' EQ knob on the amp when you crank your amp to help alleviate the 'piercing highs'?"

this doesn't address why the TS's question really. at least it offers a solution, sorta


band wagon response

i say this because it still doesn't address TS's original question, he just parroted the other poster's response in a much more eloquent turn of phrase.


did you forget your original question or something? or do you not care about an answer?

alright, i'll not even get into the last response because it still doesn't answer TS's original question. and doesn't even do an effective job addressing his concerns.

so, first off lets answer your original question. things do sound different at a higher/lower SPL's. there is studies to describe it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contours

most likely the line 6 takes these into consideration and attenuates the proper frequencies for an effect that is perceived to be more flat ('flat', meaning that high end and low end sound the same at high and low volumes, whereas equal loudness contours show that is not case).

so 'problem' you're having is the peavey will scale the frequency linearly in correlation to the volume and that does not match equal loudness curves for the human ear. that is why high end sound 'piercing' at louder volumes, cuz the equal loudness curve 'flattens' at higher volume.

you 'fix' it as mentioned the madden88 guy, but he never told you directly to "just turn down the treble knob", dunno why.

as a side note, there are also many other random factors that may attribute to the 'piercing highs' problem, but the obvious first step is EQ it, then if that doesn't work you can start looking toward component replacement to improve tone.

edit:
just to address the 'water faucet example above', it is more appropriately analogous to a faucet flowing wide open would be bypassing the tone stack altogether. with the addition of the tone stack water is removed and flow is reduced. as most tone stacks are passive they cant only remove signal, not add to signal. there are active EQ systems though that can amplify, but to accurately describe you would need an actual functioning water pressure/electrical current analogy.

it would sound something like
a closed loop of piping with a pump that pumps in and out sympathetically to the frequency of the input signal. after you know that, then read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_analogy

then read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandpass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLC_circuit

and implement it, that would be an appropriate analogy.


waaaaay to long to read.

TS, just lower your highs. Your friends amp is prolly solid state, thier tone doesn't change much with volume increase. That, combined with your low volume not pushing your speakers, is most likely the cause of the problem.
Guitars:
LTD Alexi-600 White & Black
LTD Alexi-200 Black(Death Adder pickup & Gold OFR)
Agile Interceptor Pro 727 7-string
Jackson JS30RR rhoads
Jackson DKMGT
Squire telecaster

amps:
Bugera 6262 212 loaded with WGS veteran 30's
#14
Quote by Gundamnitpete
waaaaay to long to read.


then why quote it? or better yet, why waste time commenting on a post too large to read?
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae