#1
1)Do people do this?

2)Is this expected?

3)If someone told you to play in the key of A, would you know how to play it all over the neck on the fly?

4)would you be able to play a bunch of scales in that key as well; A major, minor, pentatonic, harmonic, etc? maybe even quickly switch between some scales?

5)Would you then also be able to do it just as easily in all other keys?

6)Do you know exactly what notes your hitting all the time?

7)and finally, if you can do this, how the hell did you learn how to do that in an efficient manner?
#4
go read "the crusade" which is a featured article on this site, it explains a lot of what you are asking.
#5
1someone must be doing it
2 most people stay in one key
3for the most part
4 yeah but i if start doing different scales and whatnot ill probably end up changing keys
5yes
6not all the time sometimes im improvising and i just know what scale im playing and now what not to play
7alot of practice i had one really long summer
#6
1)Do people do this?
Yes you'll be amazed at the mastery of some musicians

2)Is this expected?
It really depends on what you're doing. If you are recording a jazz piece for a studio then yes you had better be on your game. Also when sitting in on a jam with other musicians, The band leader should be able to say give me a funk beat in the key of E minor, and you should be able to produce.

3)If someone told you to play in the key of A, would you know how to play it all over the neck on the fly?
I honestly know it in 2-3 positions on the neck, and certain in between patterns to move to the next position that I know. Honestly though, as long as you can play in given key proficiently in one position on the neck you will be ok. Moving all over the neck seamlessly is more for show than anything.

4)would you be able to play a bunch of scales in that key as well; A major, minor, pentatonic, harmonic, etc? maybe even quickly switch between some scales?
You should at least be able to play Major, Minor scales, and the Pentatonics...Knowing the different modes of that key will help too if you're working with real professional people.

5)Would you then also be able to do it just as easily in all other keys?
If you know your scale shapes then you should be able to apply them to each and every key regardless.

6)Do you know exactly what notes your hitting all the time?
This isn't necessary in my opinion...if you know your scale shapes then you should be fine.

7)and finally, if you can do this, how the hell did you learn how to do that in an efficient manner?
lol

Here sir,

1. Learn the CAGED system for your scales
2. Learn theory.
3. Practice ear training
4. Study each of these every single day.
5. Learn and jam with as many different songs in as many different genres as you can stand.

I've been playing and writing music for 10 years, I studied at Musicians Institute for a year, and found that everything that they teach is easily and readily available on the internet.

http://www.cagedguitarsystem.net/ - for your scales in the caged method
www.musictheory.net/ - for your basic theory

I hope some of this helps!
Last edited by iduno871 at May 20, 2010,
#7
Quote by ak10
go read "the crusade" which is a featured article on this site, it explains a lot of what you are asking.



i believe i have read some of that before. i think i have got to part 3, dont know why i stopped. but judging by the titles, i think i know everything up to part 6. i guess it wouldnt hurt to start over on that. just seems like i have done so many of these online courses and when i get to the end im like, "wut?". i mean i understand everything when i read it, i can do it all on paper, but for me, paper + guitar = ? lol!


and thank you to the rest of the replies as well. this community is one of the best i have come across on the net.
#8
Quote by fupashredder
1)Do people do this?

2)Is this expected?

3)If someone told you to play in the key of A, would you know how to play it all over the neck on the fly?

4)would you be able to play a bunch of scales in that key as well; A major, minor, pentatonic, harmonic, etc? maybe even quickly switch between some scales?

5)Would you then also be able to do it just as easily in all other keys?

6)Do you know exactly what notes your hitting all the time?

7)and finally, if you can do this, how the hell did you learn how to do that in an efficient manner?


1. Many can some cannot.

2. I think its a good skill to have

3. Yes, and I can do it in my sleep.

4. Yes, and easily

5. Yes

6. Yes

7. Its the very thing I teach others to do, it took 10+ years of my own figuring it out, and when I did I ultimately saw an inherent logic to the guitar. Ive thought about it, why is this no where else in the world to be found? I don't know, but without sounding too weird, its like all this was floating around the universe waiting to be understood and chose me for whatever reason, and said, this is being given to you, now teach others.
#9
Quote by Sean0913
1. Many can some cannot.

2. I think its a good skill to have

3. Yes, and I can do it in my sleep.

4. Yes, and easily

5. Yes

6. Yes

7. Its the very thing I teach others to do, it took 10+ years of my own figuring it out, and when I did I ultimately saw an inherent logic to the guitar. Ive thought about it, why is this no where else in the world to be found? I don't know, but without sounding too weird, its like all this was floating around the universe waiting to be understood and chose me for whatever reason, and said, this is being given to you, now teach others.


since your the only one who said yes to all those questions, how could i go about learning it? i have been playing for 5-6 years and a little over half of those years i have been picking up bits of theory here and there. and the last year and a half have really stepped up the theory learning. but its still not as much use as i thought it could be. i think if i could answer yes to all those questions i would be pretty damn content
#10
Quote by fupashredder
i think if i could answer yes to all those questions i would be pretty damn content

You might be content...however knowing a bunch of scales and being able to use them is two different things. IMO, it is pointless to memorize 30+ scales if you are not using them on a regular basis. On Tux Guitar there is a scale list of about 200+ scales...Some are the same with different names. My advice would be to improvise to music, especially jazz, using scales as a guide as to what to play over certain chords. Being able to create interesting licks out of scales is the hardest part. However, when I learn certain licks within a particular scale/mode, the finger patterns stick in my mind more, as opposed to sitting down and memorizing scale formulas or finger patterns everyday.

Sean where is your academy at in South Texas? Anywhere close to Houston?
MARTY FRIEDMAN--"It’s a lot easier to be technical than it is stylized; it really is... But I think it’s a lot more rare to have someone who’s really got their own sound because that’s something you can’t practice."
#11
Quote by fupashredder
1)Do people do this?
Of course.

2)Is this expected?
It depends. Blink 182 for example probably don't need to know every single scale/key/pattern because their music doesn't require them all to be absolutely fluent in theory. A classical guitarist, however, playing in an Orchestra, would be expected to know their shit like the back of their hand.

3)If someone told you to play in the key of A, would you know how to play it all over the neck on the fly?
In most positions, yes; though it wouldn't sound amazing. Remember that after the 12th fret the 2nd octave begins and it is exactly the same pattern and shapes as before, so you really only have to learn the first 12 frets (which is obviously less daunting than learning 24).

4)would you be able to play a bunch of scales in that key as well; A major, minor, pentatonic, harmonic, etc? maybe even quickly switch between some scales?
I could probably bullshit my way through it fairly safely. i.e. I'd be in key but it wouldn't exactly be the greatest improv as i'm still learning, as we all are
Again, once you learn the shapes it's not THAT difficult, it's just a memory thing more than anything else because the shapes are the same for every note. i.e. If you learn a C major scale pattern and moved it up 2 frets and played the exact same shape, you would be playing D major.

5)Would you then also be able to do it just as easily in all other keys?

Yep, because of the above "scale shape theory".

6)Do you know exactly what notes your hitting all the time?
Most of the time, depends how fast i'm trying to play.

7)and finally, if you can do this, how the hell did you learn how to do that in an efficient manner?

With a bit of theory knowledge, fretboard awareness, practice and application.

If you can name every single note without thinking then you're off to a great start, if you can't then it's worth playing something like Fretboard warrior or just looking at a chart to become familiar - this will help you when it comes to playing up and down the neck.

Next -



Memorise this shape before moving onto the others (link at the bottom).
Practice it briefly and regularly every day (better to keep it short and sweet rather than say "I'm gonna spend this weekend learning every scale" cos it is very boring and you'll probably give up). If you're not learning a song or practicing a lick just look at this and play it, backwards and forwards, for a few minutes and then do something else. Come back to it a bit later and repeat; eventually it'll be drilled into your brain and you'll have nightmares about major scales attacking you and your family.

Once it's stuck in your head you need to find a way to use it effectively; download a backing track in whichever key you want to play (C major is usually the best place to start as it contains no sharps or flats) and faff around with that pattern - pay attention to how the notes sound against the chords and try and find what sounds best (How does a D note sound against an Eminor chord? Would it sound better if you played a B or an E?).

Do this every day and it'll get easier and easier. Try not to get ahead of yourself and move on until you're comfortable with what you've learnt as it'll serve you better in the long run.

Hope this helps

http://www.guitarplayerworld.com/Shapes_of_the_Major_Scale.html
Last edited by Calibos at May 20, 2010,
#12
1-5: Yes.

6: Depends.
Yes, I do know all of the notes and could relay them to you quickly but when playing/improvising I could not. It's not the note names I'm thinking of, it's the intervals and melody in my head that I'm working to.

7: Impossible to explain with any accuracy.
404: Sig not found.
Last edited by ChrisN at May 20, 2010,
#13
Quote by iduno871
Moving all over the neck seamlessly is more for show than anything.


Actually it's quite useful for accessing different notes and tones too.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#14
Quote by Calibos
Of course.


Yep, because of the above "scale shape theory".





Memorise this shape before moving onto the others (link at the bottom).
Practice it briefly and regularly every day (better to keep it short and sweet rather than say "I'm gonna spend this weekend learning every scale" cos it is very boring and you'll probably give up). If you're not learning a song or practicing a lick just look at this and play it, backwards and forwards, for a few minutes and then do something else. Come back to it a bit later and repeat; eventually it'll be drilled into your brain and you'll have nightmares about major scales attacking you and your family.

Once it's stuck in your head you need to find a way to use it effectively; download a backing track in whichever key you want to play (C major is usually the best place to start as it contains no sharps or flats) and faff around with that pattern - pay attention to how the notes sound against the chords and try and find what sounds best (How does a D note sound against an Eminor chord? Would it sound better if you played a B or an E?).

Do this every day and it'll get easier and easier. Try not to get ahead of yourself and move on until you're comfortable with what you've learnt as it'll serve you better in the long run.

Hope this helps

http://www.guitarplayerworld.com/Shapes_of_the_Major_Scale.html



i have heard that learning the shapes of scales and memorizing them is actually the worst way to go about it and that i should know exactly what i am doing all the time....i dont know what other way there would be that would allow me to answer yes to all those questions
#15
Quote by fupashredder
i have heard that learning the shapes of scales and memorizing them is actually the worst way to go about it and that i should know exactly what i am doing all the time....i dont know what other way there would be that would allow me to answer yes to all those questions

There is nothing wrong with shapes so long as you know the function of each note in each shape. The more you learn, then, the more the shapes will fill in and blend together.
Oh yeah.

Quote by hildesaw
A minor is the saddest of all keys.

EDIT: D minor is the saddest of all keys.
#16
I answered yes to every question, that's actually pretty standard for any decent musician, imo. Ofcourse, there are exceptions
#17
Quote by Peaceful Rocker
I answered yes to every question, that's actually pretty standard for any decent musician, imo. Ofcourse, there are exceptions

i did too, the only real way to get better with it like anything else is to practice it.
#18
6)Do you know exactly what notes your hitting all the time?
I personaly onlt think about the degree of the note I'm hitting, depending on the scale, it's easyer afterward to play in different key.
Quote by RazorTheAwesome
Lol at Bender

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I got to warn you for spam though...

Quote by Shredoftheday
Nicely put good sir

I witnessed Night Of The Pear 2
#19
Quote by Peaceful Rocker
I answered yes to every question, that's actually pretty standard for any decent musician, imo. Ofcourse, there are exceptions



then can you tell me how i could go about doing that? i dont want to be the exception
#20
Quote by z4twenny
i did too, the only real way to get better with it like anything else is to practice it.



i agree, the only thing is that you can VERY EASILY practice the wrong way. this is where i am at. i dont know EXACTLY what to practice in order to be able to answer yes to all those questions
#21
Quote by fupashredder
i agree, the only thing is that you can VERY EASILY practice the wrong way. this is where i am at. i dont know EXACTLY what to practice in order to be able to answer yes to all those questions

you'll need to practice everything you listed to get better at all of it. its no small process, its a combination of technicality, listening (and paying attention) knowing how the intervals sound together between notes, a little bit of theory (well alot of theory if you want to really get into it) and lots of playing and application.

if you know your major/minor scales and where the notes are in relation to each other then you should be ok. the only thing i could see really screwing up is on the technical side of it, hitting a wrong note or something on accident. just practice everything you can. i find myself trying to play stuff all the time that my hands haven't been trained to do yet. so i sit there and run through it over and over it working it up in my hands until i have a little bit of speed on it.
#22
Quote by fupashredder
then can you tell me how i could go about doing that? i dont want to be the exception

Well, for starters practice memorizing the note names. That's a big start, when you learn the scales, focus on the intervals and it makes it easier to relate the scale to different keys and such. This isn't a skill you're going to get overnight, it comes with months and even years of dedication, just keep practicing. You showing interest in learning these things is the first step to doing it, clearly you want to learn. Investing in lessons isn't a bad idea either
#23
Quote by fupashredder
i have heard that learning the shapes of scales and memorizing them is actually the worst way to go about it and that i should know exactly what i am doing all the time....i dont know what other way there would be that would allow me to answer yes to all those questions


If you were driving somewhere far away would you take a map or your sat nav with you or just assume that you will figure out which way to go?

Try and think of the shapes as your map, they will guide you all over the scale to where you want to go, and once you know the way there you won't need the map anymore.

As far as "knowing what you're doing all the time", yes that would be great and with enough practice you could attain that level of proficiency, but everyone has gotta start somewhere, I don't see how learning scale shapes could in any way hinder your progression as a guitarist. Anyone else ever heard of this before?
#24
Quote by fupashredder
since your the only one who said yes to all those questions, how could i go about learning it? i have been playing for 5-6 years and a little over half of those years i have been picking up bits of theory here and there. and the last year and a half have really stepped up the theory learning. but its still not as much use as i thought it could be. i think if i could answer yes to all those questions i would be pretty damn content



PM me for more details, I'll do what I can to help.

Best,

Sean
#25
Our goal as musicians should not be to play scales, but to be able to create our desired music (hopefully in key!). To learn not only how to play what we hear in our head, but to learn to listen to music in a way that allows us to hear something in the first place.

I hate having to watch someones hands go through an Am C F progression and then not being able to full express myself even tho I know all of the notes I can use and their position on the neck. I think it's more about the relationship between notes than the notes themselves.

To me, music is releative. Happy Birthday in C major sounds just as happy as Happy Birthday in B major. Like the majority of the population I don't have perfect pitch, but maybe this is different for people who do?

So what skills do we need to be able to express ourselves? I think in shapes when I play guitar in a way, I know the shape to play a note an octave higher anywhere on the neck. Same goes for perfect 4th, perfect 5th, minor 3rd, major 3rd and a few others. I do not know how to describe exactly what I'm trying to say but it ties in closer to what Bender424 was getting at.

Quote by bender424
6)Do you know exactly what notes your hitting all the time?
I personaly onlt think about the degree of the note I'm hitting, depending on the scale, it's easyer afterward to play in different key.